New EU vacuums and half the suction

[Mike81]

I just read the 2015 Finnish consumer reports test about canister vacuum cleaners. One thing was very interesting. Measured suction (air watts) power results clearly shows how much the suction has dropped with the new low wattage models.
Quite dramatic drop in suction.

Some examples:

2015 models----------------motor & airwatts

Miele Classic C1 Ecoline-------800W 167W
Miele Complete C3 EcoLine---800W 214W
Electrolux UltraOne------------785W 207W

Older models

Electrolux UltraOne--------2200W 427W
Miele S8-----------------------2200W 379W

 

[sebo4me]

Yes there will be a drop in suction. There will be members posting on here that that suction isn't everything and that you can make up for the loss of suction with tweaks but I am not convinced!

 

[Mike81]

Exactly.
For example Electrolux UltraOne 427w > 207w. That's more than half the drop in suction.

 

[sebo4me]

[No message]

 

[vintagerepairer]

In order to establish the cleaning performance, it is important to know how many air watts are needed to clean surfaces. This information I have never been able to find. Nowhere can I read that more suction means better cleaning - there has to be an optimum level to work to.

 

[sebo4me]

No clean air motor will produce as much airflow as the direct air Kirby produces at the cleaner head and now with the reduced wattage the gap will be even wider.

 

[sebo_fan]

But does it really matter? It doesn't matter to me because, well, the X uprights and indeed the Sebo vacuums I have BAR one K1 Pet model all have energy efficient motors anyway. Even my Vax VCU02 upright / Hoover Signature in the U.S also has a energy friendly motor.

For years buyers have been led to believe suction as its most strongest is better. Even Electrolux and Hoover back in the day constantly used higher power to sell on their flagship ranges. Hoover at least had one principle going for them by the time they had “invented” the domestic upright vacuum with the beater bar.

What most buyers don’t tend to realise is that they don't need to throw out their existing vacuum just because it may have a higher motor that is now classed as energy inefficient by EU law.

Not all vacuums perform the same way with these new EU law passed motors in my experience.

Air watts are a fad Benny - they not usually tested by the motor but at the hose end which can decrease over time due to the flow rate.

 

[sebo4me]

Next year we will be down to 900w.
It matters to me because it feels like we are taking a step backwards.

 

[Mike81]

Well these results are tested from the hose end.
Suction isn't everything I agree. Nozzle design is extremely important, but with this much drop they better design very good nozzles for these vacuums.
Most important figure is the airflow: liters per second or the cfm.

One Example: Philips PerformerPro
airflow
2200W 51 L/S
650 W 30 L/S

 

[sebo_fan]

And what happens when the bag starts to fill up?

 

[Mike81]

Of course airflow will decrease, but in this case when the bag is almost full. Thanks to the high quality bags. (S-Bag Ultra Long Performance). Those bags are very well known for good filtaration and not loosing the suction.
Top of the line Electroluxes uses same bags.

 

[sebo4me]

I don't think Miele bags lose much airflow as it fills but even if they do usnt it better to start with more airflow in the first place?

 

[sebo_fan]

For how long and on what kind of debris? See, it is impossible. Just as it is impossible to rely on these air watts stats at the very least.

That X4 that you love so much - it has a far lower rate of power than a Hoover Purepower 2100 watt upright = and yet you'll know how well the bags fill and last for. It doesn't come down to having highest suction power.

 

[delaneymeegan]

I'm thinking this is going to be a case of less is MORE. Why?

1. Just having super suction doesn't mean you can clean better. What's important is getting a clean house, not a vacuum with more suction. If I can get my house clean with no vacuum at all, that's even better.

2. Higher wattage motors make more noise. Not desirable.

3. Stronger suction motors can damage the bags and the pores of the bag would become clogged easier and possibly explode.

4. Stronger motor moves more air. More EXHAUST air being pushed out the other end of the machine means more air turbulence in the room which can cause MORE dust in the room.

5. with stronger suction, dirt and debri flies through the hose faster and when it abruptly lands in the bag can enter at such a fast rate, it can damage the bag.

6. Motors that aren't spinning as fast do not wear down the carbon brushes as fast and the motors will last longer.



Some vacuums have such strong motors that the manufacturer has literally had to put holes in the body of the machine to allow air in to keep the motor from burning out. I'm referring here to a Kenmore canister from the early 1980s. I noticed there is literally a 3/8 hole hidden in the bottom corner, toward the front.

When you have a motor rated at 4 h.p., which is double power of motors from the 70s, but you have the same hose size, something has to give. But when it's running, you can hear the annoying sound or whistle of the air from that hole.

In the U.S., I watched in the 80s as the vacuum makers got into this pathetic h.p. competiion starting in about 1983. Each year the vacs increased about 2/10s of a horse power to the point where in the 90s they were at 5 h.p. It's not necessary.

 

[sebo4me]

I have a 2200w Miele S8 and none of the above points apply

 

[sebo_fan]

There are a few good points in what you’ve said, Delaney. However there are a few points I’d like to make.

Higher wattage motors don’t always make more noise - depends on if the brand has put in noise insulation in or actually produced a quieter motor in the first place.

Strong and weak suction can still destroy a paper bag. One of the reasons to why so many brands now offer the synthetic material fleece type bags - they are less likely to burst and being electrostatic means the airflow is maintained through the bag with dirt and dust held back.

Lots of brands have an air valve relief hole on the back of the upright OR a canister vac. It is there to stop the strain on the motor if the bag gets clogged, not necessarily having strong motors.

 

[turbo500]

The question is, how much suction does it actually take to clean the surface?

Let's not forget that we managed perfectly well with 250w Hoover Juniors and 550w Electrolux 500's & Twin Turbo's for years, all of which clean perfectly well.

When using both as straight suction, there is no noticeable cleaning performance between my 2200w Miele S5 and my 700w Electro Comfort. So that's 1500w of wasted power as the extra suction doesn't add any cleaning advantage.

Equally, my new 620w Henry cleans far better than my old 1200w Henry, largely due to the redesigned floortool.

We've also has numerous reports on here too of how well the new 700w Sebo Felix models perform.

 

[vintagerepairer]

Turbo500, that's exactly what I asked in message #4

 

[Mike81]

I don't have anything against the new lower wattage vacuums. In fact I do my daily vacuuming with my old Volta U258 made in 1988. It has 1000W twin fan motor and I think it has enough suction to my needs. For carpet vacuuming I use my Kärcher upright with 1030W motor. No complains at all.
But why on earth some new low wattage vacuums (with low suction) has so loud and high pitched sound? I mean that my old canisters have very pleasant and soft sound. Totally different than those screamers. Mostly cheap bagless models.
And here is the video of turbo brush spin speed comparison. I actually can't hear (or feel) the difference between the 330AW Electrolux UltraPerformer and old Volta U258.
This was when I was wondering how this is possible.