New "EU" vacuums have less suction than 30 year old vacuum!

[vacerator]

"when did screamers appear"

About 1985 or so. When Eureka moved to plastic canister design on their Express line. Yes, on full speed, they are quite loud.
A middle range dark red and white model was used by Allie Sheedy in "Maid to order" with Beverly Deangelo.
I think Hoover switched to single stage 12 amp screamers on their Futura models after discontinuing the Dimension 1000 range.
Electrolux stuck with 2 stage motors I believe.
Not sure about Kenmore. Probably when Panasonic came in.

 

[turbo500]

when the screamers actually started to make a big appearance

mid-80's for us but only on the very cheap brands. Goblin cylinders of the 80's were noisey - a combination of cheap motors and no sound insulation. Infact, at one point, Goblin recommended wearing ear defenders in the manual for some of their cylinder and multifuctional cleaners.

The real explosion of screamey motors happened in the late 90's though.

 

[n0oxy]

screamers

Yes, I think there were some Kenmore whispertone models that still sounded decent in the 1990's. The European Electrolux uses one stage motors I think, my ultra one is a one stage. In the United States, the company that used to be called Electrolux, now called aerus, has now switched to a one stage motor on their classic model, it's not quite as screamy as some others, but you can definitely tell the difference.

 

[real1shep]

I don't agree with the cars are made better since 1970, comment. There are a lot of things at play;better metallurgy(understanding of), better lubrication(oils/grease are better), better electrical connectors(something time/experience has made available to the auto industry) and a better understanding of road wear and consumer treatment.

It's not uncommon for a modern car to have its first major tune-up at 100,000 miles...a point when cars of old often needed their engines rebuilt or at least the head(s)done.

But the downside to this is that modern cars are made to a price point and with the idea that you trade up every 4-8yrs. They have become incredibly complex with an array of computers talking to each other(on average, Mercedes has 46 on board computers). The majority of parts aren't fixable which leads to the high cost of parts replacement.

There are pros and cons to each side of the argument. Many cars of old were simple to work on and with some tinkering, could conceivably last you your lifetime. Today's cars are safer and require less maintenance, but they're made at a price point and are sacrificial as they age out and fall apart.

I think with vacuums, it's the same and a good analogy here. When Electrolux made the Super J, they were trying to make the most powerful canister vacuum they knew how and with quality. That mindset is long gone for most consumer vacs.

Kevin

 

[sptyks]

I can think of...

a few vacuums still made today with high performance and High Quality:


 


Miele


Sebo


Kirby


Royal


 


These are expensive machines but you get what you pay for.


 


 

 

[vacerator]

Well of course

todays engines last longer, run cleaner, need less tune ups, but other dynamics are not like they were in the 70's.
An Oldsmobile V8 engine for example was as smooth after 100,000 miles as when it was new. Tolerances are much closer today, requiring better lubrication also.
There is accuracy, and precision. Do we get both today?
An Olds Toronado made a cross country trip using one quart of oil with it's 455 cubic inch engine. That type of extended driving is hard on an engine because of the sustained heat and friction. Modern engines have lighter blocks, pistons, etc.
Synthetic oils operate at a higher temp., but lubricate better.
More aluminum is also used instead of malleable and nodular iron, which oil could better permeate. Lighter weight attributes to higher efficiency and fuel economy.
We may get what we pay for, but eventually modern high tech cars all have problems, and yes electronics are a major factor in that.

 

[oliveoiltinfoil]

@Mike81

Without turning this political, its one of the reason I voted leave. Not because i care too much for vacuum motors, but its an example of meddling in our affairs, pointless, useless legislation that does nothing but cost us money.

You know they want to target kettles and toasters next, as well as lawnmowers?

 

[turbo500]

The legislation was welcome. Manufacturers were getting away with using high power motors as a way around doing any real R&D. Vacuums were becoming lower in quality and more unreliable, with all those broken, single cyclone, high power vacuums cluttering up landfills. Something had to change.

 

[Mike81]

I personally hate those screamer vacuums. My sister gave to me her couple years old cheap bagless vacuum, because it was constantly glogging and loosing suction due to the poor cyclone design. It has 2100 watt motor and it sounds awful. Loud high pitched motor will make my ears ring.
If I compare it to my Philips P74 with 1000 watt two stage motor difference in sound is huge. Philips sounds very smooth and it basically has just sound of airflow and it truly move a lot of air.

 

[real1shep]

The US auto manufacturers finally took a cue from the Japanese and Germans for making tighter tolerances and more precision in making their autos. They had to....sales were draining to overseas cars. So now US cars are often an amalgamation of foreign drive trains/engines etc, but assembled here. I've lost track of who does what and what parts are foreign. It's a price point game in autos now.

Take any of those old motors and blueprint them and you usually had fantastic results if the shop knew what they were doing. Now it's normal for close tolerances and better metallurgy/lubrication to eek out fuel economy and the mistaken belief that you can go longer between oil changes and tune-ups. Aluminum, composites...all have a hand in this.

As expensive as cars are today along with higher payments, it makes sense to many to go back and buy older cars and funnel money into them. Depends what you want out of your auto experience. Same thinking in vacuums of today and yesterday.

Kevin

 

[Mike81]

Well I know how things went in the US car industry, and how they are today. Interesting subject by the way.
My own experience about old vs new vacuums

Old
- better build quality
- heavier
- 2 stage slower rpm motor
- pleasant sounding
- good suction for wattage used
- poor filtaration
- bulky
- long lasting motor

New
- "ok" build quality
- more compact
- more convient to use
- lighter
- high-pitched motor sound (depending manufacturer)
- exelent filtaration
- better bags/good bagless system
- very good suction (not EU vacuums)

This was just a my opinion

 

[real1shep]

Which begs the.......

question in my mind......do you get that much better filtration today with a modern vac than you would with say, a Lux Super J and a HEPA bag?

Kevin

 

[n0oxy]

oldder electrolux with hepa bag

I have an Electrolux 1205 and an Electrolux Olympia, the Olympia has the same motor as the super J. There are hepa cloth bags available as C bags, which is what most Electrolux aerus vacuums use. The filtration they provide is excellent, I'm not sure why Aerus chooses to stick with paper bags, they don't filter as well. Love the sound of those motors compared to the high pitch whine that most vacuums have these days. Those luxes will clean anything quite well. It's interesting to combine them with a modern power nozzle such as a Wessel Werk, Sebo or Lindhaus. Since the hose on these vacuums is a standard mini plug, this is actually very simple to do.

 

[vacerator]

Yes, the USA had to

follow Japan into world class quality.
However, I remember when a Toyota Corolla also rusted out in a few years, and many said never buy one in the early 70's.
I had a 1984 Nissan Sentra that didn't like to restart after the engine had warmed up. Just the opposite of most heavily emission control laden American cars of the 70's. Unleaded gasoline, the catalytic convertor, and an 85% hotter ignition spark remedied that by 1975.
My grandmothers 1966 Chevy Impala lasted her 26 years, and still runs today.
It's had two repaints, and a new carpet and upholstery padding from dry rot.
My 84 Nissans back seat was sun damaged after just 5 years.

 

[n0oxy]

today's qualitty

I do think many products are made to last only a few years now and then be replaced. What a contrast from the older Electrolux, Kenmore and eureka vacuums of the 50's, 60's and 70's, probably some other brands as well. Many of these older vacuums are still being used, sometimes as daily drivers. Some brands are still made with this quality, but it's few and far between, Miele, Sebo, Ricccar, etc.

 

[keiththomas]

strange

Yes modern machines are different to their older ones, but the fact is that plastic is thing, made for a price and once snapped cannot be repaired.

Manufacturers or importers get away with making cheap tat just to undercut their rivals.

Its just money without considering what the implication of a declining manufacturing base has brought in the west.

We do nothing now and even repairing is no longer done, Not only have we paid the price in Manufacturing job losses. But as less people work, the higher the taxes. In the UK we sold our family Silver and what great brands we once had 50 years ago, are now either foreign owned and gone.

As to Vacuums the only British made ones is Numatic Henry. The German brands are good, some of VAX (Hoover USA) is ok, but many are built for disposal usually within 8 years.

 

[Mike81]

To the n0oxy

I have done exactly what you said.
Modern high filtration cloth bag + Wessel-Werk EBK 340
to my old canisters (PH is suitable for both).
My loyal "tank" Lux Royal D790 and "smooth" Philips P74 Electronic will clean now like I would never guessed that they would do.

 

[real1shep]

<a name="start_32942.361786"></a>I have an Electrolux 1205 and an Electrolux Olympia, the Olympia has the same motor as the super J


 


It's my understanding that the big motor in the Super J was just in the Super J. After that, the motors were outsourced, like in the production period of the Diamond J et al. The replacement brushes for the Super J are bigger and more expensive than the models previous and after. The motor/armature is longer and bigger....not to be confused with the 1205 and 'Golden' Jubilee 50th Anniversary motors.


 


Kevin