Pick your poison: Main equivalency!

[Absolute Rainbow]

What's the effort? Compared to what? Your criticism makes no sense. It probably cost Kenmore ten cents to make that part and there are no fasteners or anything to install to put it in the bag chamber so assembly is not more expensive as a result. The Panasonic part adds no more complexity than the release levers found on the dust bins of countless bagless vacuums. Actually it is better because there is almost nothing to break on the expander cage. The plastic is thick, supple and not the least bit brittle or prone to breaking.

I meant the R&D needed to make the bags competitive, not just improve the basic design. Also, you didn't answer me about Suction Work Rate vs. Airwatts.

 

[cheesewonton]

I meant the R&D needed to make the bags competitive, not just improve the basic design. Also, you didn't answer me about Suction Work Rate vs. Airwatts.

Air Watts are an instantaneous measurement of both suction and airflow simultaneously at a given orifice size. It's a snapshot in time. Suction and airflow will be different for every orifice size with suction increasing and airflow decreasing as the size of the orifice is reduced.

Suction work rate measures the volume of air that flows through the opening of a hose over a period of time, multiplied by the sealed suction also measured at the end of the hose and that product is multiplied by a constant. Measuring the total volume of air over a period of time reduces the errors inherent in trying to capture an instantaneous airflow measurement so you don't have to try to normalize for the different speeds of air in a tube or pipe with turbulent airflow as you encounter measuring air watts.

The research to make bags competitive is spread out over the millions of applications, not just vacuum bags but other equipment that requires HEPA filtration. The US HEPA standard in fact comes from the nuclear industry and was developed as part of the Manhattan Project during WWII. The requirement for HEPA filters to capture 99.97% of particles 3 microns in size was driven by the need to capture certain nuclear particles that are 3 microns. The vacuum industry simply adopted an existing filter media technology to vacuums. The same tech is used in hundreds of other industrial applications. Now you are going to try to convince me it costs more to develop a vacuum bag than it costs to develop a cyclone and I will laugh out loud if you do.

 

[Absolute Rainbow]

Air Watts are an instantaneous measurement of both suction and airflow simultaneously at a given orifice size. It's a snapshot in time. Suction and airflow will be different for every orifice size with suction increasing and airflow decreasing as the size of the orifice is reduced.

Suction work rate measures the volume of air that flows through the opening of a hose over a period of time, multiplied by the sealed suction also measured at the end of the hose and that product is multiplied by a constant. Measuring the total volume of air over a period of time reduces the errors inherent in trying to capture an instantaneous airflow measurement so you don't have to try to normalize for the different speeds of air in a tube or pipe with turbulent airflow as you encounter measuring air watts.

Okay, and... I doubt these alone will direct measure cleaning performance on floors.

The research to make bags competitive is spread out over the millions of applications, not just vacuum bags but other equipment that requires HEPA filtration. The US HEPA standard in fact comes from the nuclear industry and was developed as part of the Manhattan Project during WWII. The requirement for HEPA filters to capture 99.97% of particles 3 microns in size was driven by the need to capture certain nuclear particles that are 3 microns. The vacuum industry simply adopted an existing filter media technology to vacuums. The same tech is used in hundreds of other industrial applications. Now you are going to try to convince me it costs more to develop a vacuum bag than it costs to develop a cyclone and I will laugh out loud if you do.

I only agree with you about the HEPA. Also it's 0.3 micron, not 3 microns.

I meant R&D effort, not cost.

 

[cheesewonton]

Okay, and... I doubt these alone will direct measure cleaning performance on floors.

I only agree with you about the HEPA. Also it's 0.3 micron, not 3 microns.

I meant R&D effort, not cost.

So there is zero R&D effort designing bagless vacuums? Maybe you don't want to answer that, lolololololol.

 

[Absolute Rainbow]

So there is zero R&D effort designing bagless vacuums? Maybe you don't want to answer that, lolololololol.

Oh my god. What a cheesy move from you.

Anyways, the point is that there's more R&D effort to make the bags competitive with the bagless stuffs, and the former still has running cost and still wasteful (bagless only empty contents, whereas you have to throw the entire bag of the bagged and replace with a new bag).

 

[cheesewonton]

Oh my god. What a cheesy move from you.

Anyways, the point is that there's more R&D effort to make the bags competitive with the bagless stuffs, and the former still has running cost and still wasteful (bagless only empty contents, whereas you have to throw the entire bag of the bagged and replace with a new bag).

I don't believe for a second that engineering a bagged vacuum is somehow more expensive and consumes more engineering talent than engineering a bagless vacuum. Document that claim or it's pure bovine excrement. Bagless machines require a steady drumbeat of new filters and the owner has to get their hands dirty cleaning the darn things. I'll gladly pay a buck or two a bag rather than have to dump that miserable dust bin out and wash filters and the bin. No thanks. And why can't any bagless machine be made with the kinds of quality materials and workmanship one finds with a Sebo, Lindhaus. Miracle Mate, Metrovac or Aerus vacuum? The bagless stuff is uniformly hard shiny miserable squeaky brittle plastic with plastic brush rolls that melt when they get hot. And don't say they don't melt because I have seen to many that did. Where is all this engineering talent when you can't even vacuum for an hour without melting the stupid brush roll? Kludge.