New EU vacuums and half the suction

[oliveoiltinfoil]

Well we have the wonderful EU to thank for this. As we know, unelected bureaucrats should indeed be telling us what watts the motors in our vacuums have!

Of course it isnt as black and white as that but the immediate impact is yes, suction has decreased overall. I am all for a better designed vacuum, better floorheads and an advancement in motor technology, i mean i dont know why manufacturers aren't getting on the brushless motor bandwagon. The washing machine industry is.

 

[vintagerepairer]

Those old Volta cleaners (we had them as Electrolux here) were very well designed with good internal mouldings to keep the dust bag well away from the filter at the back. This allowed air to flow all around the bag. These cleaners in the UK were very powerful but then they cost a lot of money to buy and so they could afford to be well built. Having said that, the Philips cleaners of the same period were very cheap to buy but were equally as well designed to maximise suction power.

 

[sebo_fan]

I don’t see what the different is though Mike.

There have always been loud and cheap bagged AND bagless vacuums.

Take my Hoover TeliosPlus. It has a 2300 watt motor. It is very loud to use.
Compared to my previous Miele S5211 which had a 2200 watt motor - quiet to use and even on the highest setting it wasn’t as painful to my ears as the Hoover TeliosPlus and a model before the EU law came in.

Though motor sound in decibels are measured by the EU label, they are not given a particular statistic in order to pass what is acceptable and what isn’t - unlike the other tests for suction on hard floors and carpets.

 

[vintagerepairer]

The noise of a cleaner all comes down to what the manufacturer wants to do. Historically, the cheapest cleaners in production were amongst the noisiest. Yes, there were some very quiet cheap vacuums and likewise some very noisy expensive cleaners, but broadly speaking the overall quality and attention to the build of the more pricey cleaners meant they were often quieter.

For many years the Goblin cleaners were noisy, none more so than their wet & dry machines, but even before that their traditional cylinder types were much noisier than the Electrolux alternatives. Their uprights were never too pleasing on the ears either.

For me, I could tolerate loud noises more than I could high pitched whistles, which can make me feel very sick indeed.

 

[floor-a-matic]

I think what U need there in Europe is a good old vintage American Electrolux like a Model G, 1205 or Super J; I bet they'll outclean anything made today

Do U have that kind of machines there, but under a different name?

 

[n0oxy]

lower power motors

Kind of makes me wonder if they will pass similar laws here in the United States. The electrolux ultra one, at least the version that is sold here, is one of the quietest and strongest suction canister vacuums I have seen. The Riccar prima is right up there with it, and the Perfect Canister has just as much suction, though not as quiet. Many of the wet dry vacs that are sold here are quite loud, I have a shop vac 6 gallon, so it's not that big, but you can hardly hear yourself think when it's running. This whole thing about lower power motors kind of makes me wonder what kind of motor was used in vacuums such as the Electrolux 1205, I've never seen one of these but I bet they cleaned very well.

 

[vintagerepairer]

The "problem" with the EU regulations on vacuum cleaners in the UK is that many people here do not like being in Europe and will fight any changes to the death, irrespective of whether or not it's a good idea.

In the case of vacuum cleaners, I think a reduction in power consumption can only be a good thing, especially when vacuum cleaners in years gone by were able to produce outstanding cleaning results from a much lower wattage motor than we've seen in recent times. Manufacturers only have to look at how it was done then, and in fact it seems they may well have done, now that Numatic Henry & other cleaners have a hose which is much wider at the cleaner end than it is at the wand end, as was the case with so many Electrolux cylinder cleaners years and years ago.

I do not agree with everything the EU wants, but I like to think I look at it in detail before I form an opinion. The scaremongering which went on in the UK press when the wattages of vacuum cleaners was capped was simply staggering.

 

[sebo_fan]

Yes but respectively in the U.S Canisters come with a PN as standard usually. That's more noise to factor into the equation.

Noise factor hasn't always been such a great marketing trick that every brand show; only Miele are probably one of the more famous brands for making adverts featuring the noise of their motors. It has only been in recent times that other brands are showing off quiet vacuums.

A good old vintage Electrolux or similar might be welcomed in the UK and Europe, but it has to be cost effective.

 

[Mike81]

Best new canisters what I have experienced are the Miele S8, Electrolux UltraOne and Philips PerformerPro. Those are also been most successful in the tests many times. Unfortunately SEBO is not sold here.
We actually have something that is quite close to the good old vintage American Electrolux. It's called Lux Intelligence and it's only being sold door to door salesman. Price is just insanely high (about 1500-2000€).
Here is also screenshot of the test I was talking about (best 3).

 

[delaneymeegan]

Sebofan-
"Lots of brands have an air valve relief hole on the back of the upright OR a canister vac. It is there to stop the strain on the motor if the bag gets clogged, not necessarily having strong motors. "
That sounds like a good idea and, an option I've not seen in the U.S.



Turbofan-
"Let's not forget that we managed perfectly well with 250w Hoover Juniors and 550w Electrolux 500's & Twin Turbo's for years, all of which clean perfectly well."
Exactly !

and

"... redesigned floortool. " Very true. Theres two areas to a functional vacuum. One is the suction. The other is the tools used for grooming carpet and upholstery that lift the dirt to make it available for the suction to wisk into the machine.
Even a meager suction motor can do a good job with a well equipped PN or floor tool.




NoOxy-
".... what kind of motor was used in vacuums such as the Electrolux 1205"
It was most likely 8-9 amp.
When I bought my Ultralux Classic, the last of the metal canisters, in 1993, I asked the salesperson what the H.P. was. As I mentioned earlier, at that time most vacuums were being labeled with the H.P. The Salesperson said it had the equivalent of a 2.2 h.p. motor.
His response, when I naively said "That's kind of low, isn't it?" was, "It doesn't need any more than that" and, he was right. Though at the time, I didn't fully get it.

My Ultralux Classic has a 9 amp suction motor, and when you factor in the pn, it totals 11 amps, according to the label.

 

[sebo4me]

The 1200w Henry had a very poor floorhead there was a lot of room for improvement there! Not so much room for improvement with the Miele or Sebo floorheads.
The Hoover Junior had a direct air motor which doesn't need as much power as a clean air motor cause it produces more airflow at the floorhead.

I will put my 2200w Miele S8 up against one of the 800w Eco models and we will see which one cleans better

 

[sensotronic]

"I will put my 2200w Miele S8 up against one of the 800w Eco models and we will see which one cleans better "

That sounds like a good idea for a Youtube video. I have a 2200 watt S8 and an 800 watt C1 Classic I could compare, Now if I can find a bag of filth, some pet hair, a camcorder with tripod and a Youtube channel I'm all set.

 

[sebo4me]

I will look out for it. I hope the 800w model will perform as well as the S8 but I'll be surprised if it does.

 

[sprockkets]

Man, you all had 2200w vacs in the UK? Thanks to having only 15 amp 120v circuits for the US, we are practically limited to around 10amps or so, around 1200w.

2200w is flat out ridiculous. No wonder they capped it at 900w. If those idiots never went above 1500w they probably wouldn't have cared.

 

[sebo4me]

Yes but we have 240 volts over here. So 2200 w is just under 10 amps

 

[sebo4me]

2200w in UK is equivalent of 1100w in the US.
Voltage x Amps= Watts

 

[sptyks]

<span style="font-size: 18pt;">Watts are watts no matter what the voltage is.</span>


 


<span style="font-size: 12pt;">If volts X amps = watts, Then:</span> 


A 1200 watt vacuum in the UK is equal in power to a 1200 watt vacuum in the U.S. It's the amperage that changes. A 1200 watt cleaner in the U.S. is rated at 10 amps at 120V but in the UK where voltage is 240V that same 1200 watt cleaner is rated at 5 amps.


 


GOT IT?

 

[sebo4me]

What I meant was 10 Amps in the US would be 1200 in the UK it would be 2400.
Because we have a higher voltage we tend to have higher wattage. But not anymore

 

[Mike81]

My honest opinion is that 1200w would be reasonable limit. 2200w is "a bit" overkill. You just create huge amount of heat. With 1200w over 300 aw is possible. 800w is a bit too low.

 

[sebo4me]

Yes agree with that Mike. I would like to see the limit no lower than 1200w for an upright and 1600w for a cylinder which needs a bit more power because of the longer hose.