Tacony Tandem Air Suction Not Too Great

VacuumLand – Vintage & Modern Vacuum Enthusiasts

Help Support VacuumLand:

shrink1982

shrink1982

Active member
Joined
Oct 10, 2015
Messages
41
Location
Indianapolis
I have noticed on my Maytag 1200 the suctions through the hose is not all that great. Once I extend the wand and and add the dusting brush I can definitely tell the difference. The suction just isn't on par with my Sebo D4 premium. In fact, the suction is about as good as the suction I get if I hook the hose up to a Kirby, which seems odd considering it has direct suction only. I am not sure if the Maytag underperforms on suction only because the wattage of the machine is split between the two motors resulting in a much less powerful suction motor than what you get on a machine that only has a suction motor. I am not an engineer I just know what my experience has been. I have also noted that the part of the hose that clips into the hose handle, there is a slight leak of air. It is very subtle but I can feel it. It isn't sealed well but I don't blame that for the performance as it is very minimal. I think the suction motor is underpowered. It would be nice if the suction motor would pull more electricity and speed up when the direct air motor and brush roll are turned off. Has only else noticed this on Tacony models with TandemAir?
 
You nailed it-the clean air motor in the Tacony tandem air machines is like 6A-about the same as the direct air-brush motor.So when you have both of these together-its 12A the 80% rating for a 15A 120V circuit.I don't use either the Kirby or Tandem air uprights in the hose mode only-have MANY canisters for that job-and they work better!Esp the central vacs.Just use the uprights for the WW carpet in my place.I would so like to see the tandem air uprights lose the hose or make it separate as on a Kirby-they make the machine clunky and awkward.Other wise I like the tandem airs.Very unique and effective on carpets.
 
I am anxious to get the Tacony Tandem air canister-this may be the best of both worlds-tried a demo one and was quite impressed.The canister motor is more powerful than the clean air one in their uprights.Plus the hose is longer and easier to use on the canister.
 
hose useage

When it comes to using a vacuum with a hose, canisters are the way to go. While many upright vacuums have hoses, they are not near as flexible, this is why I'm a huge canister fan and don't have any uprights, nor do I want any. It's personal preference of course, but canisters, whether a canister itself, central vacuum, or a backpack are simply more flexible. Use a power nozzle and you have carpet cleaning performance as good as an upright, for hard floors or above the floor, switch to the appropriate attachment, canisters are really the best of all worlds when it comes to a vacuum. Many uprights do not have as much cleaning power when using the hose, and the hoses are usually shorter, and there's no easy way to get the vacuum to follow you while cleaning. A canister vacuum does not have any of these issues.
Mike
 
I'd like to see any canister with any PN match my Kirby Sentria or my Royal 8300 on carpet.  A canister PN just does not have the weight needed to seal to the carpet and agitate it properly.


 


 
 
Oh brother, here we go AGAIN!!

Stan, you just HAD to go ahead & bring up the topic of whether canister powerheads can seal to carpets again, eh?! Good grief, don't you know when a topic has been talked about & debated so many times it's pointless & non-productive? Seriously. It's time we put that topic to rest PERMANENTLY....it's quite obvious to me certain members will never agree with others, & it's just best to agree to disagree & not bring it up again.

As for the Maytag M1200, Riccar & Simplicity tandem air uprights having lower hose suction/airflow than average....I have to wonder if part of the reason why it was designed this way was so that the airflow from the direct air motor & the airflow from the clean air motor would be balanced. So that the clean air motor's suction/airflow wouldn't be so strong that it might overpower the direct air motor & possibly cause damage? Just a guess here.

And, just in case anyone is curious, the suction/airflow the clean air motor on the Tandem Air uprights produce would be considered average by the industry. Most "lower end", "disposable" or "retail" brands, like Hoover, Eureka & Dirt Devil, historically those clean air uprights have produced 60" waterlift. It's only when you buy a premium vac shop brand, such as the Panasonic/Kenmore uprights, Tacony uprights, Samsung, etc, that you start to see higher waterlift ratings, most of those brands are about 70" waterlift, sometimes as high as 80"-85".

Rob
 
I agree with you Rob. I think it's to do with getting a balance between the direct air and clean air motor. It's a good design but personally I'd still prefer a single motor.

The direct air Riccar canister PN that will be available soon does interest me a lot. I will be interested to see how well it performs.
 
Stan - Oh really? No, you're not right at all! If the video you're using as your proof was with a canister vacuum using a full size powerhead, not the compact Miele powerhead, you could say it's a fair comparison. But those compact powerheads can only clean low pile carpet effectively, where there isn't a lot of carpet nap to brush through. You can't compare that to a full size upright with a full size powerhead that can clean ALL carpet types effectively.

Also, Mikko is using sawdust in his test, not normal dirt from normal vacuuming that he could have collected & spread out. Sawdust would clog a vacuum bag much more quickly than normal dirt. There's a reason vacuum collectors have criticized Consumer Reports in their testing of vacuums for using fine talc & sawdust to replicate dirt in their tests. Therefore, the 2 vacuums would lose their airflow much more quickly than normal, & is NOT a true reflection of the cleaning results one could expect using either machine.

Rob
 
Good points Rob.

I would still like to see a canister/cylinder cleaner that can match the performance of the Kirby.

My MD central vac might well do. It's has very high suction and airflow. I can feel it pulling the dirt up deep down into the carpet pile. I use it with a Sebo ET1 which is a very effective PN.
 
Kirby vs canister vacuums

I don't think that there is a canister vacuum cleaner what can match the Kirby in a deep cleaning. However some come quite close. For example my Nilfisk GM80 with the full size Wessel Werk EBK 340 ph comes very close.
Now it's important to know, that the Nilfisk pulls 109 cfm from the hose end. I would say that it is pretty impressive for a clean air motor system.
I haven't done direct comparison video between those two, but maybe I should.
Here is my latest deep clean comparison video where Kirby won.
Note that the Lux Royal had a small ph in this test. It pulls 104 cfm from the hose end.


mike811-2017060405483001015_1.png

mike811-2017060405483001015_2.png

mike811-2017060405483001015_3.png
 
Hmmm-Maybe I should try my Volt powernozzle with my Nilfisk GM 80 canister vacuum!Stangely---My Nilfisk came from the trade in pile in the Kirby salesmans van!The Nilfisk I have came with an air powered powernozzle-could see how the Kirby could beat that one.
 
canister and upright comparison

If you have a good amount of suction and airflow, and a full sized power nozzle, I would think it would clean as well as an upright. That MD central vacuum and the Sebo power nozzle should be a great cleaning combination, I would think that would be comparable to an upright. As far as the volt, I would say give it a try with that nilfisk vacuum, see how it works. I have never seen a Nilfisk but have heard they are very good. Here is a youtube video about the volt nozzle, it provides a good overview of how it works.
Mike
 
Rob,


 


The results of Mike's latest video prove once again that upright vacuums, especially Kirby, are far superior in cleaning performance. to any canister/power nozzle combination.


 


I have a 10 amp Royal Everlast 8300 that out cleans my Kirby Sentria. I would like to see any canister with PN even come close to matching the performance of my Royal.


 


~Stan


 


 

sptyks-2017060410184006331_1.jpg

sptyks-2017060410184006331_2.jpg

sptyks-2017060410184006331_3.jpg
 
Stan, let me make this clear - The ONLY uprights ever put on the market, in my opinion, that can come ANYWHERE close to matching or exceeding a modern post-1990 canister vacuum's performance is the Tacony Tandem Air uprights, a post-1990 Royal Metal upright, or any Kirby made after 1980.

You cannot possibly claim that ALL uprights clean better than canisters. For starters, the motors in clean air uprights, whether bagged or bagless, produce less suction & airflow than canister motors. Forget how well the hose, wand & powerhead connections are sealed on a canister....the fact of the matter is, a modern, post-1990 canister vacuum's motor produces more suction & airflow than a competitor's upright from the same year. That easily overcomes any airflow losses & makes it clean better. And as for direct air uprights being superior? Well, the ONLY ones that actually work & are effective are the bell nozzle shaped uprights, like Royal & Kirby. All the others that have the fan & belt pulley placed at opposite ends, like 8 lb uprights & Hoover Elite, Dirt Devil Featherlite, Eureka Bravo, etc....They initially have good suction & airflow, but lose it very quickly with as little as 1/4 or 1/3 full bag of dirt. Same thing with the Hoover Convertible/Eureka F&G style uprights, & they also have the added disadvantage of burning thru their round belts much faster than uprights that use flat belts.

Rob
 
highest ratings for a central vacuum with one motor

I have a total of 7 central vacuum units, and while they clean very well, some have higher power than others. My most powerful models are the Purvac barracuda, this one uses a Dommel motor, 151 water lift and I think 144 CFM, it's quite powerful. Then there's the vacumaid SR800, it has the Ametek lamb 8.4 inch two fan motor, 142 CFM and 147 water lift, it's quite a beast. And then there's the vacumaid garage vac pro, this unit is designed to give you the power of a central vacuum without pipes, it just has a hose inlet right on the unit. It uses an Ametek 5.7 two fan motor, interestingly, even though it's a smaller motor, the specs are not that much different than the 8.4 motor, 138 water lift and 138 CFM, it will also have no problem cleaning whatever you give it;. Hooking a central vacuum hose directly to a central vacuum unit with no pipes is really something, I guarantee you that this set up, with a good power nozzle will out clean any upright on the market.
Mike
 
Everyone, Please Be Careful When Quoting Specs

As far as I can tell people keep quoting RAW motor specs that do not represent cleaning power at the end of the hose. As an example, pictured below is an 8.4" double stage Ametek motor that can do 142 CFM at the motor base with a 2" opening. When that opening get reduced by the typical 1.125" hose, the airflow drops like a stone to 106 CFM. Now add handles, wands, u-joints required to actually get the airflow to a carpet nozzle and you can see just how much airflow loss is apparent.

The best upright I have measured so far is a Kirby Sentria II. Comparing apples to apples, the base of the motor tests at 177 CFM (with a HEPA bag) and then gets reduced to 137 CFM at the nozzle with the brush roll spinning.

Bill

wyaple++6-4-2017-23-23-50.jpg
 
My Mistake...

Rob,


 


My apologies for any confusion. You are correct. I DID NOT intend to claim that ALL uprights deep clean better than a canister with PN. I meant to specify just Direct or Tandem Air uprights made after 2000, most specifically G series Kirby's and 9 and 10 amp Royals.


 


That being said, it did appear to me, I could be wrong, that the black upright vacuum in Mike's latest video is a Bypass air machine which did perform better than his canister with PN.


 


 
 
drop in airflow

What Bill says is true, there will be a drop in airflow once a hose is connected. When you turn on the garage vac pro that I mentioned in my previous post with no hose attached, the air coming out of the exhaust port is definitely more than when a hose is attached. This is why many say that using a central vacuum with two motors does not really provide much benefit, the airflow will still be restricted by the hose and any pipes that are installed.
Mike
 
You are correct the single motor produces 700 airwatts but there are twin motors that produce over 1000 airwatts and 200 CFM.

Yes of course airflow will be lost through the hose but the suction and airflow is still very strong and my carpets look extremely clean after using the central vac.
The results are more than good enough for me 😊
 
I will be getting a twin motor central vac at some point.

Mike I think having 2 motors will be of benefit.Yew there will be a loss of airflow but if you're starting off with over 1000 airwatts and 200 CFM there's going to be more suction and airflow at the end of the hose than a single motor I would think.
 
two motor unit

It would be awesome to try hooking a central vacuum hose directly to a two motor unit to see the performance, unfortunately I don't have a 220 volt outlet here, and the units that use two large motors require that. There are two motor units that use two smaller motors that use 120 volts, but these motors are rather small and you will probably get better performance with one larger motor in this case.
Mike
 
I have a dual motor NuTone CV450 that has two 6A motors-electrically they are connected in parallel-airpath wise they are in series.My other central units are quieter and more powerful.The NuTone runs on 120V. 240V units are not practical for me-there is 240V in my house of course for the range and dryer,and GE Advantium oven.Just not convenient to run a 240V central machine for me.My MD Silentmaster does just fine!
 

Similar threads

Vacuum Facts
Why is airflow always measured?
2
Replies
59
Views
3K
Absolute Rainbow
A
C
I've been Metrovac'ed
Replies
3
Views
378
cheesewonton
C
A
Dirt Devil FeatherLite bagged uprights— direct air models VS bypass **HELP NEEDED**
Replies
2
Views
238
human
human
A
Vacuum plugs getting so hot they’re warping/melting! **HELP**
Replies
20
Views
759
royalfan103
royalfan103
niclonnic
Most unpleasant-sounding vacuum ever?
2
Replies
42
Views
3K
cheesewonton
C

Latest posts

Back
Top