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Yea, I learned a TON. Funny story is that I was visiting a friend who runs an auto dealership when my call came in that they accepted my offer. I was working with a new sales person there and he was a good guy. When they asked about the call, I told them my offer for a new vacuum was accepted. The manager (my friend Brian) was in shock and laughed. Keith, the sales guy (new to the dealership) said the D4 was a GREAT unit and he has used one. I asked him when and he told me he owned a vacuum store for years in his past. That was too funny. I told him the others I was looking at and he said I couldn't go wrong. We spoke about the swivel on the top of the hose and not just at the canister. He agreed with me that he never liked the Riccar/Simplicity design and he feels it puts much too much stress where the hose and handle meet. Not sure if that's true, but it makes sense. He said he never had Sebo's come back for work. Said that the connector where the wand and handle meet is best on the outside even though it's not slick like the Miele because it was easy to fix and not that expensive to get a new jumper if needed. He said he only sold one though as they never were messed up. Said that he had some problems with Miele in the late 90's, early 2000's. Said that he always had broken boards on the Riccar's he sold. Liked them overall and said since they fixed the hose issue that it shouldn't be a problem as I only have one house to vacuum, lol. It was interesting to hear him say that and it just solidified my thoughts. Having fun this morning cleaning, lol.
 
Well this board has convinced me ...

CANISTER.

Definitely.

I've seen the Mieles, but I won't make a decision until I've also tried the Royal S20 (trip into Brooklyn), Electrolux (venture back into that creepy store on 23rd Street), and the Sebo (another trip into Brooklyn).

The Sebo would have to really blow me away, however, to compensate for its lack of a headlight. Yes, I'm one of those Americans who can't imagine vacuuming without a headlight. It's a tiny thing for a manufacturer to install, but an absolutely enormous thing for the user who vacuums in less-than-idea light (dim hallways, under furniture, into closets). I'm amazed that Sebo can take the energy and expense to engineer spinning LED lights to indicate motor speed (something I've managed to live without for 43 years), but can't be bothered with putting a single stationary light on the front of its power nozzle (something I've never been without for 43 years).
 
I...

Don't know if this had been brought up before, but the S20 is based on the Hoover WindTunnel anniversary edition canister. Which has been plagued by electrical problems.
 
Meh.

"Based on" meaning what?

Hoover and Royal are two separate companies.

And the Fantom Thunder supposedly has been "plagued" by "electrical problems" as well. And yet I've had not a single one with mine for 16 years ...
 
I was told by two folks who sell the Royal that they still aren't sold on them for the cost. NYWriter, I take it the Simplicity Moxie isn't in your search? If it is, let me know as you can get one cheap and new about three miles from me. I'd set you up. You may even be able to get a D4 for close to what I paid (I got demo, but he may even sell new for the same. I didn't care as the unit I got is in great shape). It just felt so well built. I too wanted the light and was not happy about not getting one, but I vacuumed again a few minutes ago and honestly, I didn't miss it at all. I liked the shape of the L head and for me, things were easy to use and the suction was great. It sucked out all the sand between my floor boards (poorly laid floor). Loved the Miele, but couldn't justify the cost for me and the guy up here is willing to sell his extra Capricorns down to Earth for 950-800 I think it was.

I'll be interested into what you end up with and why. BTW, to the board, why hasn't anyone mentioned Lindenhouse (can't spell)? I was offered one yesterday for 800 as he wanted to get rid of it. It was a white canister that had a slick Italian look to it and was comfortable. I was going to give it a real look, but I just liked the D4 for some reason and no one has mentioned it and loved it.
 
UGH

KirbyUltimateG ....

That is very disappointing to hear.

CTSooner ...

The nearest Simplicity dealers are in the Bronx or Long Island. Might as well be Pittsburgh. NEXT!
 
NO HEADLIGHT/NO LOSS

NYCWRITER,

In all my years in the vacuum business, I never missed the headlight on the early Lux Omniflo power nozzles like the PN-5. The Sebo ET-1 is an excellent nozzle without it as well. I do like the 236 Miele with the LED headlight better than the vacuum it is attached to though. Hanging out with a very lovely Asian gal there, I have always found there are so many other things to do in the dark besides vacuum. Especially in Manhattan. Wouldn't you agree that a lighted power nozzle might not be that big a deal after all lol?

Brian
 
Brian, I agree that lights an get in the way, but sometimes you love to see what you are getting into, lol. That said, I just finished getting under a few pieces of furniture and the one thing no one really talks about is how easy it is to get under everything. I now wont' have dust bunnies under everything and that's going to help the air in this place.

NYWriter, I have a dealer up here who has the Moxie on sale for 599. He's ship it to you if you need to I bet and you'd have the warranty. He has two in the box that he wants to move. He's also give you about 100 or more off the Miele S5 models he has left as he has the new ones in already and he stocks every model of Miele and needs the room as well as the money. Nice guy who we've bought from for years and years. He sells Sebo, but didnt' stock the D4, so I went elsewhere or I would have bought from him again.
 
NYCWriter

"Based On" meaning the same machine with a different colored plastic and different PN. Stories and reports of circuit board failure are everywhere. Go to reply 185 by KirbyLux77 for more info. They may look like a Miele but they'll never come close.
 
Fantom lightning. I'll say it again!! HOOVER HAS FIXED THE CIRCUIT BOARD PROBLEM!! The circuit board problem affected earlier units of the Hoover Windtunnel Anniversary Bagged canister model S3670. The electrical board controlled the hose switch for the agitator on/off. The board has been remedied so it will not affect power to power nozzle!! You can talk with Guardsman69 on here and he can tell you more. He is longest operated Hoover Warranty dealer.

TTI Floorcare has owned Royal and Dirt Devil for many years. In 2006 after Maytag was acquired by Whirlpool, Hoover was sold. Maytag ran the Hoover company down the drain during the years they owned them. Upon the sale in 2006 Hoover sold for several million dollars less than they were years ago because Maytag ran them down the drain.

Royal and Hoover are now owned by TTI. The two machines Hoover Windtunnel Anniversary S3670 and Royal Lexon SR30020 have very similar designed suction units but the Royal has better internal parts. Outside of the suction units these machines are 100% different.

Hoover Windtunnel canister:]
old style Windtunnel nozzle. A powerful cleaner with powerful motor but: cheap plastic, terrible front and rear wheels, automatic height adjuster, stretch belt, terrible hose. One of the worst hoses on a canister vacuum next to the Sebo D4, which I have blisters from the hose grip handle!! Thanks Sebo... Wand release will go bad after a few years, telescoping wand is cheap

Royal Lexon SR30020 canister:
New style dual suction chamber power nozzle. 4 carpet manual height adjustment pedal, wand release pedal. Rubber coated front and rear wheels with metal axles, durable, strong built plastic base. Completely sealed system. Serpentine belt, belt protection system. Low profile power nozzle with headlight on lower wand. Better quality telescoping wand over Hoover model. EXTREMELY comfortable, easy to use hose with amazing hand grip. Sealed suction unit. I have internet searched and have not read of any electrical issues with this unit.

I have buddies in vacuum business that like this vac and have had great success selling it in their store. Is it the Cadillac of vacuums and built like a Kirby. NO! However this is one very powerful, very easy to use canister vacuum cleaner at a decent price. I would love to own one!!

I have recommended looking at the Lindhaus canister vacuums as CTSooner mentioned, no one else has mentioned it. The power nozzle on that is one of if not the best in the industry!! Same power nozzle as the MD central vac Stealth model.

Brands I recommend: Royal, Miele, Simplicity, Riccar, Lindhaus, Aerus, Perfect, older Hoover, older TriStar. Miracle Mate is one that looks quite unique and interesting but I've never seen one outside of the internet so I can't recommend without using in person. Anyone with feedback for a Miracle Mate chime in!!

With my experience of a few models from the company and over 20 years passion of canister vacuums, and 18 years professionally cleaning houses. I can of no means what so ever recommend a Sebo for what you receive paying that high a price. At $350 its fine. I can 100% honestly say that my Riccar 1700 canister OUTCLEANS the Sebo D4 on several rug pile heights and textures and bare floors!!! The Sebo feels equal to my Riccar at 60% power. With Riccar running at 100% suction power the Sebo is annihilated!!! I would love to take my clients Sebo out and use for target practice or experiment with some C4!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

CTSooner I wish you 10,000X, TEN THOUSAND TIMES better luck than I have had with it.

 
The handle would bother me if I used it much. I just roll it in and out of the closet and the seam doesn't bother me. I agree that it should be designed better. As for the hose, I love the fact that it's got a Venturi effect design. It has picked up things that my other vacuums haven't. Even my housekeeper we used to have didn't pick this stuff up and she used a top line Miele or Simplicity depending on the day. Every dealer I went to that had both Sebo and Riccar/Simplicity liked the Sebo much more and said it was a much better build. Side by side they picked up the same amount, but on pet hair the Sebo picked it all up in the first or maybe second pass and the Moxie or Impeccable needed three or more passes of the power head.

I don't pretend to be more than I am, a home owner who wants a clean house and an easy to use unit. My living doesn't depend on ability to be perfect like you guys. I would have been very very happy with the Moxie at 550, but the dealer there (who wanted to move the moxie) said that the Sebo is a better built machine and he hasn't had one come back for any issues. He said he get the Simplicity back on occasion for minor repairs and most are due to neglect. He's sold Royals and Simplicity for for over 40 years. I just remembered that he sold me a Simplicity over 20 years ago and I never liked it. I think deep down that was one reason I shied away from that company. I don't know, but it just never said 'buy me'. It always said, you can get me at a good deal. His favorite over his Miele, Simplicity, Royal, Hoover or any other canister he sells is the D4. He wont' stock it because it won't move vs the Miele's and the Moxie won't move either and that's why he's selling his stock of them off.
 
Durango159, we all get how much you hate sebo, you need not bash them over and over again. there are brands that i do not like, but i am not going to keep bashing the brand(s) over and over again. give it a break.
 
Durango, go check out that video and see what innovations they have on this machine. Top suction so it never looses suction with a full bag. Ultra low readings on the exhaust. The most innovative hose around. Bottom line for me is that it works and the place looks great. I have no blisters yet and it's fun to vacuum. I even have grown to like that LED, plus the handle is as comfortable for me as the Miele was. The weight doesn't bother me either since I am not weight lifting it. The four rubber casters move it around as easily as anything else on the market and the longer hose and cord really do let me plug it in once per floor and get the whole place done. How cool is that?
 
Durango...

Regardless of what Royal has done to improve the S20, a plastic Chinese disgrace like that should NOT be selling in the price point it is... That should be about a $200-$300 machine max to compete with the high end Sears Kenmore machines. Even Miele manages to make a machine cheaper than that, in Germany no less. As for getting information from Guardsman69... I'll start getting information from him when he decides to not type in all capitals/ignore capitalization all together, and use some form of punctuation for that matter.
 
As I pointed out earlier ...

The Hoover Convertible in 1968 sold for $568 in today's dollars.

And that sucker was virtually ALL metal.

Why does a $500 vacuum today have to be all plastic??
 

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