Just back from the Sebo store, lol. The missed the owner by 5 minutes, but I'll go back tomorrow or tues if I can. I will negotiate to purchase the D4 from him with the ET1 head. I LOVED it. I played with it for awhile. I vacuumed a good chunk of the store and I was able to carry on a conversation with the woman working there. Honestly, due to you guys, I knew more than she. She has three hairy dogs and is going to ask the owner to sell her a D4 or a Felix tomorrow. She has had a Miele top of the line for 13 years and feels it is built well, but not close to the D4. She also doesn't like how the Miele cleans, especially compared to the Sebo. She works sewing machines and has never seen the vacuums. He had the 500 Dyson upright there too and that was a joke in both build and in performance. The tools on the Sebo have great shapes and I liked them more than the Miele's tools. The 236 head on the Miele is the one I like, but the ET1 just seems to go where I tell it to and I like the swivel on it. I took the roller out without being told how and it took me about 10 seconds. It will be very very easy to keep clean of all the crap in the house it will pick up IF he gives it to me for what I'm willing to pay. He won't have to spend any time with me to 'sell' me or show me anything and even though he may service the machine, it didn't look like he has a big shop for vacuums. Sewing machines and blinds are more his deal. His brother owns a store about 30 minutes away that sells Riccar. I didn't even know we had a Riccar dealer in the state other than the Glastonbury store, but when I just looked to see his brother's store, I realized that they own the first store I went to originally. Small world this vacuum world, lol. I'll see what happens when I go in with cash and put it in his hand and ask if he'll make the sale. If not, I'll start to work the net as I can't go over my original budget and now I want the D4. At least he'll make some money and move a unit quickly.
Help! Shopping for New Vacuum and Overwhelmed
- Thread starter nycwriter
- Start date
Help Support VacuumLand:
NY Writer
Have you gone to a Sebo dealer to play with their uprights yet? If not, you need to before buying. I went to Lux and the guy was rude and a jerk. I LOVED the new one though. What a cool machine and it's bulletproof. Worked great too.
I didn't even realize I tried the Felix as well as the 800 upright last week when I started to look and like the D4, they felt right and were solid. Worked great too, although I like the D4 much better, but that's why they make so many different models and so many companies make a living selling them.
Good luck to you in playing with the machines as that's what really sets them apart for me. Kind of what I tell everyone about audio and video. You MUST look, play, look and listen BEFORE you purchase and not after you have buyers remorse. Good luck.
Have you gone to a Sebo dealer to play with their uprights yet? If not, you need to before buying. I went to Lux and the guy was rude and a jerk. I LOVED the new one though. What a cool machine and it's bulletproof. Worked great too.
I didn't even realize I tried the Felix as well as the 800 upright last week when I started to look and like the D4, they felt right and were solid. Worked great too, although I like the D4 much better, but that's why they make so many different models and so many companies make a living selling them.
Good luck to you in playing with the machines as that's what really sets them apart for me. Kind of what I tell everyone about audio and video. You MUST look, play, look and listen BEFORE you purchase and not after you have buyers remorse. Good luck.
FuneralDirector,
Hey, I'd love to stick with Aerus and want to like their products, however, they need to improve in a few areas, mainly features, price and marketing. They need to get the name "aerus" out there as Miele already does this. Also, I would say the same for Riccar, but they are a little ahead in terms of marketing and promotion, however, they do not allow sales over the internet. Aerus is made in the U.S. and they should bank on that as a solid marketing strategy. However, they need to modernize the machines, like the direction of the platinum.
Hey, I'd love to stick with Aerus and want to like their products, however, they need to improve in a few areas, mainly features, price and marketing. They need to get the name "aerus" out there as Miele already does this. Also, I would say the same for Riccar, but they are a little ahead in terms of marketing and promotion, however, they do not allow sales over the internet. Aerus is made in the U.S. and they should bank on that as a solid marketing strategy. However, they need to modernize the machines, like the direction of the platinum.
sebo_fan
Well-known member
Headlights - a pro or a con?
Personally I feel no need for headlights on an upright. Oh I know that the U.S and Canada love them - that's why mostly all uprights have them as standard. In most of Europe and the UK there is no call for headlights -its another thing to replace when they go. I like the LEDs that Miele fit on their S7 but its not standard across the range with the addition solely exclusive on the two top of the line models that Miele in the UK sell.
Clearly then that paints the story - if they were that important you'd have thought Miele would have fitted them right across the S7 upright range.
Personally I feel no need for headlights on an upright. Oh I know that the U.S and Canada love them - that's why mostly all uprights have them as standard. In most of Europe and the UK there is no call for headlights -its another thing to replace when they go. I like the LEDs that Miele fit on their S7 but its not standard across the range with the addition solely exclusive on the two top of the line models that Miele in the UK sell.
Clearly then that paints the story - if they were that important you'd have thought Miele would have fitted them right across the S7 upright range.
nycwriter
Well-known member
ctsooner and sebo fan:
I'll definitely try out a Sebo before making my decision.
And as far as headlights -- I don't see why anyone would prefer to *not* have them. And for units over $300, not including them is just plain cheap. Sort of like the Hoover Convertible uprights from the '60s and '70s that provided a nearly 360 degree rubber bumper surround only on their "deluxe" models, and for the lesser models installed rubber bumpers that reached around only the front and halfway back along the sides. Really?? Rubber was SO expensive Hoover couldn't afford to spring for those remaining 8 inches or so on the cheaper units??
I'll definitely try out a Sebo before making my decision.
And as far as headlights -- I don't see why anyone would prefer to *not* have them. And for units over $300, not including them is just plain cheap. Sort of like the Hoover Convertible uprights from the '60s and '70s that provided a nearly 360 degree rubber bumper surround only on their "deluxe" models, and for the lesser models installed rubber bumpers that reached around only the front and halfway back along the sides. Really?? Rubber was SO expensive Hoover couldn't afford to spring for those remaining 8 inches or so on the cheaper units??
eurekaprince
Well-known member
I find headlights really useful - it helps to warn you before you run the vac over something in the dark under an office desk, or in a dark corner or under the edge of a bed or behind the Lazyboy lounger in the den. It also helps to see if you missed something - even in the wide open turf of carpet in the middle of a room. Sometimes, the headlight sheds light on the dirt or a pen that is hiding between your night-table and your bed ("Oh that's where THAT went...."). And certainly, for those uprights that can be used to clean bare floors, it helps a lot to avoid vacuuming up a liquid spill in the bathroom or running into plastic bags on the floor in the kitchen or socks on the floor under a bed - when sucked up these can clog your airpath and force you to stop what your doing to fix the clog.
Headlights also give some "life" to the vac when you turn it on! It's like it's got its eyes open in the search for dirt!
I must say, I love the little "flashlight" Miele has integrated into the hose handle on the S8 canisters! What a simple yet really useful idea - can you imagine how this will help cleaning a car in a dark garage? I've often had to bring a flashlight down to the garage to see what is lurking under the car seats!
And headlights are really simple electrical devices to add to a vacuum's power head - two wires and a teeny lightbulb on the old Eurekas gave us some brilliant illumination on the Rugulator uprights. LEDs look really cool now - not sure how much more complicated the wiring needs to be for them.
It just goes to show you how the market really works in synergy with the marketers to define what is a valuable feature. We in North America rarely get a "radiator" brush as an attachment with our canisters now - these seem to be standard in a vac package in Europe. Europe has this great idea which has yet to ever catch on in North America: floor polishers that vacuum up the dust as you buff! (The Sebo Felix sold here allows you to buy the attachment that does this here now)
Matt - I sure hope you know how to upload videos to YouTube! We cleanerphiles are going to want to see the new toy you bring home once you decide which one to buy!
Headlights also give some "life" to the vac when you turn it on! It's like it's got its eyes open in the search for dirt!
I must say, I love the little "flashlight" Miele has integrated into the hose handle on the S8 canisters! What a simple yet really useful idea - can you imagine how this will help cleaning a car in a dark garage? I've often had to bring a flashlight down to the garage to see what is lurking under the car seats!
And headlights are really simple electrical devices to add to a vacuum's power head - two wires and a teeny lightbulb on the old Eurekas gave us some brilliant illumination on the Rugulator uprights. LEDs look really cool now - not sure how much more complicated the wiring needs to be for them.
It just goes to show you how the market really works in synergy with the marketers to define what is a valuable feature. We in North America rarely get a "radiator" brush as an attachment with our canisters now - these seem to be standard in a vac package in Europe. Europe has this great idea which has yet to ever catch on in North America: floor polishers that vacuum up the dust as you buff! (The Sebo Felix sold here allows you to buy the attachment that does this here now)
Matt - I sure hope you know how to upload videos to YouTube!
We cleanerphiles are going to want to see the new toy you bring home once you decide which one to buy!
durango159
Well-known member
Try before you buy
CTSooner, I would not rebid that demo Simplicity Moxie. I would definitely get warranty. Any manufacturer can have a lemon.
Rob Walton- KirbyLux77, I don't believe I ever stated that Mieles had bad suction. I tried Vaccrazy's Meile Blue Moon and thought it was a great machine with terrific suction. The SEB236 did seem to steer where it wanted and 100% where I wanted but otherwise it was a nice machine. Unfortunately that's the only Miele I have EVER had the opportunity to try. A really nice feature of many Mieles is you can park the wands in the back of the canister and it will turn off the machine while you readjust furniture etc. Then machine turns on again upon taking wands out of storage.
NYCWriter- I don't think you've been nasty at all. I have no problems with any of your posts. Just wanted to put that out, I'm not sure what set off Kirbyloverdan on that. Just out of curiosity what is the dislike towards Long Island. I've heard Bronx is not the nicest area but never heard anything bad about Long Island. It's my belief both are about 10 minutes away in a taxi. Please enlighten and/ or criticize me if any of that is inaccurate!!
For CTSooner, NYCWriter and anyone else seeking a vacuuming I am sticking by my Sebo feelings 110% of completely avoiding them!!! One thing you need to realize if you already haven't is that private dealer vacuum stores do not have the generous return policies like Big Box stores Lowe's, Home Depot or others. Once you purchase and leave that store with a vacuum, YOU BETTER LIKE IT!!! Try, try, try, test, use all accessories, move it around, try different carpet types, bring in a small carpet sample of your own from home or a throw rug from your home and see how you like on all these surfaces. See if the store will let you take a unit home and test it at your home for a day.
What I like on the Sebo D4: long 40' cord, very fast cord retractor, sealed system, very quiet, nice upholstery nozzle, metal bottom extension on telescoping wand, variable speed at fingertips, easy to service brush roll, durable, solid construction and reliability.
What to be cautious of with them:
-- Sebo's only power nozzle that you can turn agitator off for bare floors or otherwise is the ET-1 power nozzle. On that one, it is a very tiny button on the power head that is operable but yet very difficult to turn off with your feet, or maybe my size 10 shoes are just too big for it!! Inexcusable for price paid!!
-- No headlight on any Sebo. On a canister power nozzle where you can go under beds and other furniture, I find this inexcusable especially when paying $800 or so!!!
-- Poor carpet grooming, poor carpet cleaning. On a low profile commercial grade carpet it will zap up rice and other dirt. On a thicker rug, the power head seems to lack the power to properly groom and clean the rug. On a looser weave rug or area rug, the power nozzle turns itself off and is completely incapable of cleaning these rugs at all!!!
-- No edge cleaning on one side, the other side edge cleaning is still terrible.
-- Electric hose wiring connector constantly disconnects itself and flaps around in the air at hose handle. I've never seen a canister vacuum with this awkward loose wire that connects wiring in hose to handle. All of this should be internal, sloppily done in my mind!!
--Inside of suction unit handle has very sharp seam. On occasion I do quick cleanings and vacuum in a hurry. I carry the suction unit in one hand and maneuver power nozzle with other. It's too hard and uncomfortable to do that with the Sebo. Terrible handle design.
--Suction is good, but the Tacony and even another customers Hoover Windtunnel Anniversary canister is stronger. I always run the Sebo on full blast to get the unit to clean right and am still not happy with carpet results. At my other clients on her Berbers I drop the the Hoover Anniversary down to 60% power. My workshop at relatives house where we have Riccar 1700 I run it primarily at 60% power regardless of surface being cleaned and results for both are FANTASTIC!! Yet the Sebo is the newest of all those units.
-- Dusting brush is a joke. Very teeny, tiny and yet bulky plastic on it, makes it difficult to reach many others that you'd want a dusting brush for.
--Unit itself is quite bulky and crashes into everything and awkward to carry.
-- No connection on power nozzle wands to attach power head to suction base for one handed carrying around premises. This is a feature that is nearly standard on several other brands of canister vacuums such as Hoover, Royal, Panasonic, Kenmore, Riccar, Simplicity, Miele and others.
-- Only hose handle functions for user is variable speed.
-- Bend down turn dial for height adjuster. Most canisters are foot pedal
-- Hose handle is uncomfortable after several minutes use-- I have new blisters on my hands from the Sebo.
--Non universal hand grip WILL NOT FIT other manufacturers attachments!!
To each user a new experience. We all have likes, dislikes. In my opinion the dislikes outweigh the pros for the D4 and I strongly recommend against it!! I've been a canister vacuum lover since around 9 years old. I am now 30, and I can't think of a canister vac that I have a harder time with than the D4. I don't like the power nozzle set up on the Kenmore Intuition canisters but at least on that unit it has convenient finger tip controls, powerful suction and better cleaning power over the Sebo. The Kenmore has standard size hose and will fit other manufacturer attachments along with many other Kenmore/ Panasonic power heads.
I have also spoken with Tom Gasko who is on the inside at Tacony and they have made lots of changes to their products and don't have those problems anymore. I know many repair shops that have terrific success with Riccar/ Simplicity and Miele!!
The Perfect C101 is a nice machine, I recommend looking at that. Mieles are decent, Riccar, Simplicity, Lindhaus Aria is one to look at.
Just my 2 cents again!! Want to make sure you REALLY KNOW WHAT YOU'RE BUYING!!
CTSooner, I would not rebid that demo Simplicity Moxie. I would definitely get warranty. Any manufacturer can have a lemon.
Rob Walton- KirbyLux77, I don't believe I ever stated that Mieles had bad suction. I tried Vaccrazy's Meile Blue Moon and thought it was a great machine with terrific suction. The SEB236 did seem to steer where it wanted and 100% where I wanted but otherwise it was a nice machine. Unfortunately that's the only Miele I have EVER had the opportunity to try. A really nice feature of many Mieles is you can park the wands in the back of the canister and it will turn off the machine while you readjust furniture etc. Then machine turns on again upon taking wands out of storage.
NYCWriter- I don't think you've been nasty at all. I have no problems with any of your posts. Just wanted to put that out, I'm not sure what set off Kirbyloverdan on that. Just out of curiosity what is the dislike towards Long Island. I've heard Bronx is not the nicest area but never heard anything bad about Long Island. It's my belief both are about 10 minutes away in a taxi. Please enlighten and/ or criticize me if any of that is inaccurate!!
For CTSooner, NYCWriter and anyone else seeking a vacuuming I am sticking by my Sebo feelings 110% of completely avoiding them!!! One thing you need to realize if you already haven't is that private dealer vacuum stores do not have the generous return policies like Big Box stores Lowe's, Home Depot or others. Once you purchase and leave that store with a vacuum, YOU BETTER LIKE IT!!! Try, try, try, test, use all accessories, move it around, try different carpet types, bring in a small carpet sample of your own from home or a throw rug from your home and see how you like on all these surfaces. See if the store will let you take a unit home and test it at your home for a day.
What I like on the Sebo D4: long 40' cord, very fast cord retractor, sealed system, very quiet, nice upholstery nozzle, metal bottom extension on telescoping wand, variable speed at fingertips, easy to service brush roll, durable, solid construction and reliability.
What to be cautious of with them:
-- Sebo's only power nozzle that you can turn agitator off for bare floors or otherwise is the ET-1 power nozzle. On that one, it is a very tiny button on the power head that is operable but yet very difficult to turn off with your feet, or maybe my size 10 shoes are just too big for it!! Inexcusable for price paid!!
-- No headlight on any Sebo. On a canister power nozzle where you can go under beds and other furniture, I find this inexcusable especially when paying $800 or so!!!
-- Poor carpet grooming, poor carpet cleaning. On a low profile commercial grade carpet it will zap up rice and other dirt. On a thicker rug, the power head seems to lack the power to properly groom and clean the rug. On a looser weave rug or area rug, the power nozzle turns itself off and is completely incapable of cleaning these rugs at all!!!
-- No edge cleaning on one side, the other side edge cleaning is still terrible.
-- Electric hose wiring connector constantly disconnects itself and flaps around in the air at hose handle. I've never seen a canister vacuum with this awkward loose wire that connects wiring in hose to handle. All of this should be internal, sloppily done in my mind!!
--Inside of suction unit handle has very sharp seam. On occasion I do quick cleanings and vacuum in a hurry. I carry the suction unit in one hand and maneuver power nozzle with other. It's too hard and uncomfortable to do that with the Sebo. Terrible handle design.
--Suction is good, but the Tacony and even another customers Hoover Windtunnel Anniversary canister is stronger. I always run the Sebo on full blast to get the unit to clean right and am still not happy with carpet results. At my other clients on her Berbers I drop the the Hoover Anniversary down to 60% power. My workshop at relatives house where we have Riccar 1700 I run it primarily at 60% power regardless of surface being cleaned and results for both are FANTASTIC!! Yet the Sebo is the newest of all those units.
-- Dusting brush is a joke. Very teeny, tiny and yet bulky plastic on it, makes it difficult to reach many others that you'd want a dusting brush for.
--Unit itself is quite bulky and crashes into everything and awkward to carry.
-- No connection on power nozzle wands to attach power head to suction base for one handed carrying around premises. This is a feature that is nearly standard on several other brands of canister vacuums such as Hoover, Royal, Panasonic, Kenmore, Riccar, Simplicity, Miele and others.
-- Only hose handle functions for user is variable speed.
-- Bend down turn dial for height adjuster. Most canisters are foot pedal
-- Hose handle is uncomfortable after several minutes use-- I have new blisters on my hands from the Sebo.
--Non universal hand grip WILL NOT FIT other manufacturers attachments!!
To each user a new experience. We all have likes, dislikes. In my opinion the dislikes outweigh the pros for the D4 and I strongly recommend against it!! I've been a canister vacuum lover since around 9 years old. I am now 30, and I can't think of a canister vac that I have a harder time with than the D4. I don't like the power nozzle set up on the Kenmore Intuition canisters but at least on that unit it has convenient finger tip controls, powerful suction and better cleaning power over the Sebo. The Kenmore has standard size hose and will fit other manufacturer attachments along with many other Kenmore/ Panasonic power heads.
I have also spoken with Tom Gasko who is on the inside at Tacony and they have made lots of changes to their products and don't have those problems anymore. I know many repair shops that have terrific success with Riccar/ Simplicity and Miele!!
The Perfect C101 is a nice machine, I recommend looking at that. Mieles are decent, Riccar, Simplicity, Lindhaus Aria is one to look at.
Just my 2 cents again!! Want to make sure you REALLY KNOW WHAT YOU'RE BUYING!!
sebo_fan
Well-known member
Where all things considered NYC, you have to consider what you need rather than desire. It may be the case that money is no object but Id definitely consider any machine with a longer hose or a long power cord which will be easier to use in a large flat.
Sadly SEBO U.S has not yet bought in the suction only D series canister vacs. Im completely happy with my D2 as it lacks the power nozzle function and I can vacuum whatever I want as my D2 Total comes with interchangeable floor heads. It is strange that even now after a year's release, SEBO U.S have not yet brought the lower line models in. If you are that interested in Sebo's larger canister contact Sebo U.S and ask them if they can bring in a suction only D2. It won't hurt if you ask!
But then when all things considered, I'm not a fan of heavy vacuums; the D2 is probably the heaviest canister vac I own. I don't believe that in all my years of experience, a heavier vacuum cleaner is easier to use or sustains constant or closer physical presence to a carpet, hard floor or rug. I've read other reports of other brand power nozzles snagging on rugs including Miele's different types. For years we were led to believe that uprights gave better performance on carpets just because we had power nozzles and beater bars. NO wonder its confusing in the U.S as the UK don't have many canisters with power nozzles in the fear that it will kill upright sales and also for the fact that whenever they have appeared, Power nozzle fitted canisters can end up being far heavier than a conventional, older upright vacuum that the owner once had. By design canisters should be smaller, lighter to lift and with comparative parts that are just as light and easy to use. In recent years, the push to equip canisters with power nozzles somewhat drowns out the old equation that a canister is automatically lighter and easier to control than a bulkier upright.
Rugs are also all very well to have in a home but unless they are nailed to a floor, they can be difficult to clean, regardless of whether you use a suction only floor head or a power nozzle. I generally find suction only floor heads can get rid of dust but at all times you have to stand on the rug to clean it, to avoid it being scooped up by the floor head. If it is of small size, I shake them outside my front door!
Also I dont believe that by buying a top of the line Miele will get the best results. Here in the UK you can custom build to your needs - so a a base line model that is about to retire, or a model that has limited life left in the range such as Miele's S5000 range (replaced by the new S8) could be an excellent cheaper to buy vacuum cleaner dependent on your needs. It depends on what you are offered at the time of purchase in terms of different floor heads for example - the base machines have great power (and I'm sorry Durango but Sebo's upholstery brush on the D is exactly the same as Miele's round brush, both made by Wessel Werks) and have the ability of storing all of its three smaller cleaning tools inside a flap within the body of the vacuum - the newer S2 and S6 models lack this facility, with the S6 having a much smaller dust capacity bag compared to the bigger GN dust bag fitted in the budget line S2, S5 and S8.
Statistically, the Thunder has a 3 litre dust bin capacity - Miele's GN bags are 4.5 litres to 5 litres capacity DEPENDENT ON the design of the internal dust bin. Having just had a look at the U.S site, Miele's retired S728 canister uses the smaller FJM bag but in that design it allows 4 litres of dust maximum compared to the 0.5 litre lost in the more modern S6 and S4 retired line. I know I had all three vacuums - and I find that the much smaller, more modern lighter Miele canisters have smaller internal dust bins compared to the older, heavier S500 and S700 range (not to be confused with the "thousand" model differentiated numbers with the current vacs.)
Thus for all your floor needs and cleaning desires, I would go for Miele or any canister vac that can get around your property, evidently requiring a long travel or long cord for convenience but I wouldn't go necessarily with a power nozzle alone, thus the convenience of a canister means you can swap about floor tools. I see Miele US have a Miele S5981 Capricorn that comes with a power nozzle as standard. That's a good all rounder, even if ALL Miele canisters have short power cord lengths. That's a compromise you need to live with unless you go for the SEBO D4 and require a dust bag twice the capacity than your old Thunder and twice the amount of cord length. You can also buy a suction only floor head that could give you a much lighter and faster cleaning experience - all of Miele's suction only floor tools with pedals to change down to carpets are well made - and in my experience a great deal easier to use than coping with a heavy power nozzle.
Or if you can't be bothered to change floorheads,try the Miele S7 upright baseline like the S7210 Twist. I may be a SEBO FAN but the SEBO Felix is a great COMPACT upright with a smaller dust bag (3.5 litre but you'll get twice as many bags than Miele's standard 4 in a box) and though it can cope in a large home due to its long power cord, it isn't as easy or fast to use than my X uprights due to the wand release and top hoister design. The Miele S7 has a bigger dust bag than the Felix with a much easier to use wand release and only remains to be less agile due to its physical size. If you must live with LED lights, then go for the Cat and Dog S7260. Anything else by Miele in the U.S above these models seems to be over priced and confusing...
Example - the top of the line S7580 has the same spec as the whole range of S7 uprights but comes with extra small cleaning tools. Miele have added the words "electrobrush" as a feature - but they all have that feature!!
Sadly SEBO U.S has not yet bought in the suction only D series canister vacs. Im completely happy with my D2 as it lacks the power nozzle function and I can vacuum whatever I want as my D2 Total comes with interchangeable floor heads. It is strange that even now after a year's release, SEBO U.S have not yet brought the lower line models in. If you are that interested in Sebo's larger canister contact Sebo U.S and ask them if they can bring in a suction only D2. It won't hurt if you ask!
But then when all things considered, I'm not a fan of heavy vacuums; the D2 is probably the heaviest canister vac I own. I don't believe that in all my years of experience, a heavier vacuum cleaner is easier to use or sustains constant or closer physical presence to a carpet, hard floor or rug. I've read other reports of other brand power nozzles snagging on rugs including Miele's different types. For years we were led to believe that uprights gave better performance on carpets just because we had power nozzles and beater bars. NO wonder its confusing in the U.S as the UK don't have many canisters with power nozzles in the fear that it will kill upright sales and also for the fact that whenever they have appeared, Power nozzle fitted canisters can end up being far heavier than a conventional, older upright vacuum that the owner once had. By design canisters should be smaller, lighter to lift and with comparative parts that are just as light and easy to use. In recent years, the push to equip canisters with power nozzles somewhat drowns out the old equation that a canister is automatically lighter and easier to control than a bulkier upright.
Rugs are also all very well to have in a home but unless they are nailed to a floor, they can be difficult to clean, regardless of whether you use a suction only floor head or a power nozzle. I generally find suction only floor heads can get rid of dust but at all times you have to stand on the rug to clean it, to avoid it being scooped up by the floor head. If it is of small size, I shake them outside my front door!
Also I dont believe that by buying a top of the line Miele will get the best results. Here in the UK you can custom build to your needs - so a a base line model that is about to retire, or a model that has limited life left in the range such as Miele's S5000 range (replaced by the new S8) could be an excellent cheaper to buy vacuum cleaner dependent on your needs. It depends on what you are offered at the time of purchase in terms of different floor heads for example - the base machines have great power (and I'm sorry Durango but Sebo's upholstery brush on the D is exactly the same as Miele's round brush, both made by Wessel Werks) and have the ability of storing all of its three smaller cleaning tools inside a flap within the body of the vacuum - the newer S2 and S6 models lack this facility, with the S6 having a much smaller dust capacity bag compared to the bigger GN dust bag fitted in the budget line S2, S5 and S8.
Statistically, the Thunder has a 3 litre dust bin capacity - Miele's GN bags are 4.5 litres to 5 litres capacity DEPENDENT ON the design of the internal dust bin. Having just had a look at the U.S site, Miele's retired S728 canister uses the smaller FJM bag but in that design it allows 4 litres of dust maximum compared to the 0.5 litre lost in the more modern S6 and S4 retired line. I know I had all three vacuums - and I find that the much smaller, more modern lighter Miele canisters have smaller internal dust bins compared to the older, heavier S500 and S700 range (not to be confused with the "thousand" model differentiated numbers with the current vacs.)
Thus for all your floor needs and cleaning desires, I would go for Miele or any canister vac that can get around your property, evidently requiring a long travel or long cord for convenience but I wouldn't go necessarily with a power nozzle alone, thus the convenience of a canister means you can swap about floor tools. I see Miele US have a Miele S5981 Capricorn that comes with a power nozzle as standard. That's a good all rounder, even if ALL Miele canisters have short power cord lengths. That's a compromise you need to live with unless you go for the SEBO D4 and require a dust bag twice the capacity than your old Thunder and twice the amount of cord length. You can also buy a suction only floor head that could give you a much lighter and faster cleaning experience - all of Miele's suction only floor tools with pedals to change down to carpets are well made - and in my experience a great deal easier to use than coping with a heavy power nozzle.
Or if you can't be bothered to change floorheads,try the Miele S7 upright baseline like the S7210 Twist. I may be a SEBO FAN but the SEBO Felix is a great COMPACT upright with a smaller dust bag (3.5 litre but you'll get twice as many bags than Miele's standard 4 in a box) and though it can cope in a large home due to its long power cord, it isn't as easy or fast to use than my X uprights due to the wand release and top hoister design. The Miele S7 has a bigger dust bag than the Felix with a much easier to use wand release and only remains to be less agile due to its physical size. If you must live with LED lights, then go for the Cat and Dog S7260. Anything else by Miele in the U.S above these models seems to be over priced and confusing...
Example - the top of the line S7580 has the same spec as the whole range of S7 uprights but comes with extra small cleaning tools. Miele have added the words "electrobrush" as a feature - but they all have that feature!!
nycwriter
Well-known member
Durango ...
Size 10, huh?
I'm still going to give the Sebo a test drive ... couldn't hurt. But I have to admit that lack of a headlight on the power nozzle is a near-deal killer. Quite often I sweep in less-than-ideal lighting (inside closets, down dim hallways, and with a canister, hopefully, under furniture). I know that the better-built units can suck up nuts and bolts and ball bearings and 50-calibre bullets and just about anything else safely, but just because you CAN doesn't mean you SHOULD. It still stresses the system, and if the headlight catches a foreign object before the sweeper does, all the better to pick it up yourself rather than risk it causing a problem inside the sweeper. I suppose this kind of care is why my Fantom is still almost new after 16 years.
We're not talking about an esoteric technology that requires research, patents, and a complete system redesign. It's just a freaking LIGHT. Put one on. Done.
I was initially excited about the Riccar being made in the USA -- until I did closer research and learned it's essentially only ASSEMBLED in the USA out of Chinese parts. Boo.
So it looks like I'll be test-driving a Royal canister ... Sebo canister ... and both the Miele UniQ and upright.
Size 10, huh?
I'm still going to give the Sebo a test drive ... couldn't hurt. But I have to admit that lack of a headlight on the power nozzle is a near-deal killer. Quite often I sweep in less-than-ideal lighting (inside closets, down dim hallways, and with a canister, hopefully, under furniture). I know that the better-built units can suck up nuts and bolts and ball bearings and 50-calibre bullets and just about anything else safely, but just because you CAN doesn't mean you SHOULD. It still stresses the system, and if the headlight catches a foreign object before the sweeper does, all the better to pick it up yourself rather than risk it causing a problem inside the sweeper. I suppose this kind of care is why my Fantom is still almost new after 16 years.
We're not talking about an esoteric technology that requires research, patents, and a complete system redesign. It's just a freaking LIGHT. Put one on. Done.
I was initially excited about the Riccar being made in the USA -- until I did closer research and learned it's essentially only ASSEMBLED in the USA out of Chinese parts. Boo.
So it looks like I'll be test-driving a Royal canister ... Sebo canister ... and both the Miele UniQ and upright.
Now I'm rethinking. That's the only problems with boards, lol. All along the PN's with light are the ones I seem to like the best. The Miele and Moxie were the two I liked at first and for some reason the lights got my attention. I also feel that the Moxie should have LED's lights, but at least they have them. I love the long cord/hose on the Sebo and that it's pretty much bulletproof. I like the look also. It seems so solid, but honestly, I've spent more time playing with it than the others. I need to take control when I go into the stores and tell them what I want to play with and then do it. I wish I had a higher pile carpet to bring in with me with my own dirt, lol. I honestly can't spend an arm and a leg. I just don't have it right now, but I"m willing to stretch a bit to get my last vacuum. Time to go out again, lol. I still have it narrowed down a bit.
Question: Why does the Riccar site show an 1800/1700 and it looks like it's the same vacuum as the Immaculate/Impeccable? Is it just color? When will the 2013 vacs hit the market? Should I wait a few weeks?
Question: Why does the Riccar site show an 1800/1700 and it looks like it's the same vacuum as the Immaculate/Impeccable? Is it just color? When will the 2013 vacs hit the market? Should I wait a few weeks?
nycwriter
Well-known member
Also Durango ...
I assure you Long Island is nowhere near "10 minutes" from Manhattan. Maybe if you're Samantha Stevens and you can just wiggle your nose and zap yourself there. It takes 10 minutes to wait for the nearest subway train to arrive. Going out to Long Island -- if you don't have a car -- is at least a half-day endeavor (literally) that involves getting yourself to Penn Station (which, depending on where you are in Manhattan can take up to 30 minutes). 10 minutes to walk through the maze and chaos of Penn Station to the even more chaoitic LIRR (Long Island Rail Road) area. 10 minutes to look at the map just to figure out which of the eight or so lines you're taking. Another 10 minutes to buy a ticket. Upwards of 30 minutes to wait for the next departing train. It's now been an hour and a half and your train hasn't even left Penn Station yet! And Long Island really is that ... LONG. Depending on where you're going, it can take as little as 15 minutes on the LIRR (and that's not really to "Long Island" ... that's still Queens!), or, if you're going out to the Hamptons -- 110 miles from Midtown -- it can take 2 hours. Splitting the difference and going to a nearby town like Rockville Center or Hicksville, its about 35 minutes.
Now it gets really interesting. Your train arrives, say, at Hicksville (half hour to Penn, 40 minutes buying ticket and waiting for train, and 35 minutes to Hicksvile -- total time to make the trip out there is 1 hour, 45 minutes). It's a station in a suburban setting (they all pretty much are). Unless you're a commuter FROM Long Island (which I'm not -- I'm a Manhattanite VISITING Long Island), you now have two options to get to your final destination: jitney cab, or walk. Your round-trip LIRR ticket just cost you at least $22. The jitney will cost you at least another $20 round-trip.
Bottom line, as you can see, going to a store in Long Island, for a Manhattanite, is about as convenient as going to a store in Pittsburgh. Actually, Pittsburgh is at least theoretically quicker; hop a cab to LaGuardia (30 minutes or so), 45-minute flight to Pittsburgh, 15 minute cab to downtown.
And we don't do Bronx. We just don't.
I assure you Long Island is nowhere near "10 minutes" from Manhattan. Maybe if you're Samantha Stevens and you can just wiggle your nose and zap yourself there. It takes 10 minutes to wait for the nearest subway train to arrive. Going out to Long Island -- if you don't have a car -- is at least a half-day endeavor (literally) that involves getting yourself to Penn Station (which, depending on where you are in Manhattan can take up to 30 minutes). 10 minutes to walk through the maze and chaos of Penn Station to the even more chaoitic LIRR (Long Island Rail Road) area. 10 minutes to look at the map just to figure out which of the eight or so lines you're taking. Another 10 minutes to buy a ticket. Upwards of 30 minutes to wait for the next departing train. It's now been an hour and a half and your train hasn't even left Penn Station yet! And Long Island really is that ... LONG. Depending on where you're going, it can take as little as 15 minutes on the LIRR (and that's not really to "Long Island" ... that's still Queens!), or, if you're going out to the Hamptons -- 110 miles from Midtown -- it can take 2 hours. Splitting the difference and going to a nearby town like Rockville Center or Hicksville, its about 35 minutes.
Now it gets really interesting. Your train arrives, say, at Hicksville (half hour to Penn, 40 minutes buying ticket and waiting for train, and 35 minutes to Hicksvile -- total time to make the trip out there is 1 hour, 45 minutes). It's a station in a suburban setting (they all pretty much are). Unless you're a commuter FROM Long Island (which I'm not -- I'm a Manhattanite VISITING Long Island), you now have two options to get to your final destination: jitney cab, or walk. Your round-trip LIRR ticket just cost you at least $22. The jitney will cost you at least another $20 round-trip.
Bottom line, as you can see, going to a store in Long Island, for a Manhattanite, is about as convenient as going to a store in Pittsburgh. Actually, Pittsburgh is at least theoretically quicker; hop a cab to LaGuardia (30 minutes or so), 45-minute flight to Pittsburgh, 15 minute cab to downtown.
And we don't do Bronx. We just don't.
NYC Writter
I am from Long Island, check out these places which are right in town...
Desco Vacuum Warehouse: 131 West 14th Street New York, NY... and if your looking for USA made, looking into Aerus. There are three stores in your area.
Aerus #10286
142 West 23rd Street
New York, NY 10011
Phone: (212) 255-5535
Aerus #10285
1463 York Avenue
New York, NY 10075
Phone: (212) 831-2400
Aerus #10273
Long Island City, NY 11103
Phone: (718) 728-5021
I am from Long Island, check out these places which are right in town...
Desco Vacuum Warehouse: 131 West 14th Street New York, NY... and if your looking for USA made, looking into Aerus. There are three stores in your area.
Aerus #10286
142 West 23rd Street
New York, NY 10011
Phone: (212) 255-5535
Aerus #10285
1463 York Avenue
New York, NY 10075
Phone: (212) 831-2400
Aerus #10273
Long Island City, NY 11103
Phone: (718) 728-5021
nycwriter
Well-known member
GM 1982 ...
That store on 23rd Street is strange. Not a real showroom -- they have like three vacuums in the window, and that's it ... and the one time I went in the staff did everything they can to get me the hell out of there as fast as they could.
I just assumed it was one of those many, many New York City store "fronts" for money laundering.
Am I incorrect in that assumption?
That store on 23rd Street is strange. Not a real showroom -- they have like three vacuums in the window, and that's it ... and the one time I went in the staff did everything they can to get me the hell out of there as fast as they could.
I just assumed it was one of those many, many New York City store "fronts" for money laundering.
Am I incorrect in that assumption?
I may end up with a Miele in the end. Price has to be right though. I guess I can try and buy it on the net as the service can be local. I'd rather get it locally, but the two close dealers won't move to where I want them to I don't think.
durango159
Well-known member
CTSooner
Vacuums aren't like cars. There's not a lot difference in model years. Sometimes new models appear but the general company selection remains the same. Hoover is supposedly releasing some new things in the Spring. Kirby probably won't release anything until 2014. Rainbow just brought out the E2, I wouldn't expect anything from them till 2015. Simplicity just brought out the Moxie and Gusto. Before that was the S36 and S38. I know they are looking to bring out something else but have no idea on a timeline. Probably not till April.
Get what you want and like. NYCWriter you might like the Perfect C101 that CTSooner didn't. Don't overlook Riccar and Simplicity just cause they're assembled in U.S.A. Here is a photo of some of their facility in St. James, Missouri. The entry page to their websites www.riccar.com or www.simplicityvacuum.com have videos that are years old and get into the Made in USA a little.
I looked online and most Mieles have 33' cleaning radius. Most Riccar canisters have 6-7' hose, and 28' cord, Perfect has 6' hose could not find cord length on site. Sebo cord is 40', hose is 6-7'. Royal website says 25' cord on Lexon SR20, hose is 6-7', I think 7. On many canister from front of power nozzle to rear of suction unit is about 12'.
Vacuums aren't like cars. There's not a lot difference in model years. Sometimes new models appear but the general company selection remains the same. Hoover is supposedly releasing some new things in the Spring. Kirby probably won't release anything until 2014. Rainbow just brought out the E2, I wouldn't expect anything from them till 2015. Simplicity just brought out the Moxie and Gusto. Before that was the S36 and S38. I know they are looking to bring out something else but have no idea on a timeline. Probably not till April.
Get what you want and like. NYCWriter you might like the Perfect C101 that CTSooner didn't. Don't overlook Riccar and Simplicity just cause they're assembled in U.S.A. Here is a photo of some of their facility in St. James, Missouri. The entry page to their websites www.riccar.com or www.simplicityvacuum.com have videos that are years old and get into the Made in USA a little.
I looked online and most Mieles have 33' cleaning radius. Most Riccar canisters have 6-7' hose, and 28' cord, Perfect has 6' hose could not find cord length on site. Sebo cord is 40', hose is 6-7'. Royal website says 25' cord on Lexon SR20, hose is 6-7', I think 7. On many canister from front of power nozzle to rear of suction unit is about 12'.
CTsooner, You are shopping for and looking at high end brands, getting a blow out deal is going to be rare on a new machine that comes with warranty, throw in bags, etc.... perhaps if you cannot afford these units, look at something more mid range like Panasonic Canisters. Maybe you can get the BOL Miele Delphi for $400 or so.
NYCWriter, Hey anything in NYC is possible, maybe that location was sketchy, however, its unusual as Aerus is a legitimate company based out of Dallas, TX that produces canister and upright vacuums, water and air filtration products. Aerushome.com. Check the Long Island City or Woodside locations or even request a free in home demonstration. Call ahead I guess. they are worth a look at.
NYCWriter, Hey anything in NYC is possible, maybe that location was sketchy, however, its unusual as Aerus is a legitimate company based out of Dallas, TX that produces canister and upright vacuums, water and air filtration products. Aerushome.com. Check the Long Island City or Woodside locations or even request a free in home demonstration. Call ahead I guess. they are worth a look at.
durango159
Well-known member
Most canisters from front of power nozzle to rear of suction unit measures about 11'. Most Riccar/ Simplicity's have 28' cord, Perfect C101 doesn't state cord length on site. Most Mieles on their website claim 33' cleaning radius. Sebo D4 is 40' cord, Royal Lexon SR20 is 40' cord.
CTSooner. Vacuum manufacturers don't change vacuums each year the way automotive manufacturers do. It would be neat if they did!! Kirby won't release anything until 2014 most likely which will be their 100th Anniversary. Rainbow just came out with E2 model, so I wouldn't expect anything from them until about 2015. Miele just released the S8 canister series not sure if they have something else under their belt. Hoover is said to come out with a few things in spring, not sure what though. Royal may come out with something else at that time as well. Simplicity's Moxie and Gusto have not been out long, they replaced the S38 and S36 canisters. They are debuting something else but not sure what.
Try a bunch and get what you like. Aerus, Riccar, Simplicity, Miele, Lindhaus, Perfect, Royal or remanufactured from local vacuum shop are my suggestions.
Don't overlook Riccar and Simplicity because maybe only assembly is in U.S. Is that better than Sebo and Miele which are strictly Germany? Does it matter more where the machine is made or the features, cleaning power, durability, ease of use? It's your vacuum cleaner!!
Kind of makes me wonder if all of this research, trial and criticism goes into a vacuum cleaner. What guidelines are we using for selecting washing machine, refrigerator, lawn mower, car, pair of khakis, pizza, etc.
http://simplicityvacuum.com/
CTSooner. Vacuum manufacturers don't change vacuums each year the way automotive manufacturers do. It would be neat if they did!! Kirby won't release anything until 2014 most likely which will be their 100th Anniversary. Rainbow just came out with E2 model, so I wouldn't expect anything from them until about 2015. Miele just released the S8 canister series not sure if they have something else under their belt. Hoover is said to come out with a few things in spring, not sure what though. Royal may come out with something else at that time as well. Simplicity's Moxie and Gusto have not been out long, they replaced the S38 and S36 canisters. They are debuting something else but not sure what.
Try a bunch and get what you like. Aerus, Riccar, Simplicity, Miele, Lindhaus, Perfect, Royal or remanufactured from local vacuum shop are my suggestions.
Don't overlook Riccar and Simplicity because maybe only assembly is in U.S. Is that better than Sebo and Miele which are strictly Germany? Does it matter more where the machine is made or the features, cleaning power, durability, ease of use? It's your vacuum cleaner!!
Kind of makes me wonder if all of this research, trial and criticism goes into a vacuum cleaner. What guidelines are we using for selecting washing machine, refrigerator, lawn mower, car, pair of khakis, pizza, etc.
http://simplicityvacuum.com/
I think it's become overload to an extent. Over thinking on my part maybe. I think that I'm getting carried away with cost possibly as I read everyone's threads etc... Everytime I think my mind is made up, someone else comes up with reason's I should go elsewhere. I think all will be top machines. Maybe I will look at the mid sized units if I need to go there to get what I want in my range. I will go out and see. Part of the problem is that most of the shops around me only carry a few of the units and none seem to be the ones I want to try. I got to try a D4 and got excited, but then I read the thread above and it made me think and maybe a bit too much.
They stock what sells and moves, its impossible and does not make sense to stock every model and have it sit in the stock room and collect dust. To try out a dozen different vacuums and go store to store over a fifty mile radius is crazy! Unless you are the field of vacuum cleaner product development, and are combing for ideas, then just pick one that's in your budget.
Go to amazon or Govacuum.com and order something if its not in the local store.
Your going to pay $6-7-800 or even $900 for a fully loaded Miele, Sebo, Riccar or Aerus Lux...unless you score a used one on ebay without warranty.
Go to amazon or Govacuum.com and order something if its not in the local store.
Your going to pay $6-7-800 or even $900 for a fully loaded Miele, Sebo, Riccar or Aerus Lux...unless you score a used one on ebay without warranty.
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