Help! Shopping for New Vacuum and Overwhelmed

[kirbyloverdan]

Matt

you keep saying you have no room 1000 sqaure feet is really large for NY . Simplicity and Riccars out clean a Kirby so much for a beefed up Broom . Maybe you better learn more about vacuums before you claim to know something you dont know anything about . I am done with nasty people good luck in your never ending quest.I find it hard to belive what little most supposed collectors know about vacuums . I never needed to ask anyone how to fix something or what to buy . I guess if you really are into something like I am you just learn by trial and error .

 

[kirbyultimateg]

My house is a Levittown style Cape Cod style house built in 1953. It has 3 bedrooms/1 bathroom with full basement and 2 car detached garage. The garage was built in 1960. The 1st floor is 876 sq ft. The 2nd floor is 396 sq ft. The basement is 792 sq ft. My house is a total of 2064 sq ft.

 

[kirbyultimateg]

NYCWriter and CTSooner,
How about a Riccar SupraLite/Simplicity Freedom upright and a Riccar SupraQuik/Simplicity Sport canister? Those are rated very well by Consumer Reports and they are much better than the Orecks.
Consumer Reports Ratings:
Riccar SupraLite/Simplicity Freedom:
Excellent in deep cleaning medium pile nylon plush carpeting/Excellent in cleaning hard floors/Fair in suction/Excellent in filtration/Fair in noise.
I hope this helps.

 

[nycwriter]

Kirbyloverdan: "you keep saying you have no room 1000 sqaure feet is really large for NY . Simplicity and Riccars out clean a Kirby so much for a beefed up Broom . Maybe you better learn more about vacuums before you claim to know something you dont know anything about . I am done with nasty people good luck in your never ending quest.I find it hard to belive what little most supposed collectors know about vacuums . I never needed to ask anyone how to fix something or what to buy . I guess if you really are into something like I am you just learn by trial and error ."

WOW.

I've been on many controversial discussion forums, but I never expected the claws to come out on a freaking VACUUM website.

I never claimed to be an expert, which is why I reached out on this forum. And reviewing my comments, I don't recall being nasty. If I came across that way, that was not my intention and I apologize.

I'm glad you never needed to ask someone how to fix anything. More power to you. Some of us don't have the room for workshops, or frankly the time to delve into such projects. Type "A" professional New Yorkers like myself find it much more practical to just pick up the phone, call a repairman, and write a check.

 

[eurekaprince]

Hey there Troy Rob!

The lightweight vacs you mention are all very good, but if you read this full thread, Matt prefers to store only one vacuum, not a pair of units.

Let's wait to see what he says after trying out some of the vacs he is interested in in his local vac stores. It looks like he has already narrowed down the choice to a few vacs: the Miele uprights and power nozzle canisters, and the Tacony and Royal power nozzle canisters.

 

[ctsooner]

My current Oreck is going to my wife's office. That's how this search started, lol. I spoke with someone today from this forum and I'm still thinking Miele, but going to play with the Earth to see what I think. I will also wait for 2 more days to see if I win my bid on Ebay for the Moxie. If my bid of 207 plus shipping holds up, I'll own a demo in good shape, but with no warranty. You guys all said not to worry about it breaking down, so I hope and pray you are right, lol. I have a strong feeling that's going to be my unit since there was only one other who bid and when his high bid tied mine he hasn't been back from what I've seen. I almost hope he snipes me at the end though as I want to go back and see the Sebo D4. I likeed it when I tried it in the store. It was actually the first one I played with and it felt substantial and was quiet. It picked up screws in the store and rice. Don't know if rice is hard to pick up, but it was in the first pass, lol. My wife would like the looks of it too and don't think that isn't important. WAF is what we audiophiles call it (wife acceptance factor). I've now spoken to two who own or have owned Miele's and the D4 and they like the D4 better and say repairs and accessories are less for the D4.

As for Kirby, I had them in a few years ago when they wouldn't take no for an answer and I liked the machine, but it was a bear to work and there is no way my wife would even attempt to use it when I am unable to get out of bed (MS). I gave them my ex's name and she bought it. She loves it, but it's always out since it won't fit in the closet and it's broken twice and I've had to go over there a handful of times to figure out that darn belt change for accessories. No thanks. My wife has bad experience with the Rainbow and NO WAY am I getting into a machine that needs washing all the time. I want a canister and would look strongly at that new cool Lux if I had the dough, but if I did, I'd go with a built in central vac I think.

It's like I tell people in audio, listen to your ears and eyes. What one likes for one reason is not your reason. One of my friends called me from Best Buy the other day and asked me what AVR he should buy so I went with asking him a ton of questions while his sales guy waited. He went ready to spend 1000 on a Denon and he walked out spending less than 350 for lowest cost Marantz. he never even heard of Marantz before that call. He called yesterday and thanked me with his wife in the back yelling out, Thanks Pete. Made me feel good, but they both said it sounded better in their system than anything else they heard in the store (the store had to do mail order to get it as their sales guy never heard of the Marantz as they only sold it in their upper end stores.

Similar price ranges here, but sometimes the lesser known companies will give more bang for the buck or fewer goodies and better performance. You often don't realize that maybe 70% of all the hospitals in the world use a product under a different name (Sebo). Miele is widely available and the 'known' name for high end vacs, but Sebo sure seems pretty awesome too. In high end hand made kitchen knives, I have Suisin and a few other names that are hand made in Seki Japan. How many of you have heard of Suisin? It's an incredible knife and BLOWS away the Global or Kershaw knives (Shun). I also have a Masahiro sushi knife I love to use. I can give you specs and types of metal and hardness etc... We can talk about sharpening to a mirror finish on a 16000 grit natural or ceramic stone and go on and on. Bottom line some of the less costly knives will work just as good and you only need to sharpen to about 1000 grit and if you keep it sharp, it won't matter what metal they are using or the cost.

That's what vacs seem to be. I don't have to spend an arm and a leg to get a great vac that will stand up to my once/twice a week work. I take very good care of my stuff and always have so if it breaks it's probably on the unit and they will fix it (if I get to buy locally which I want to do). I'm going to see what happend on Ebay and if I win, I'll pay and get my unit and be happy and feel I got a great deal. If not, I won't lose a second and I'll start to price out the Sebo D4, Moxie and the Earth and go from there. Best buy/value is the winner and I'll be really happy and clean, lol.

You guys have been and continue to be great and I so appreciate it.

 

[kirbylux77]

Panasonic Performance Plus Platinum upright

NYCWriter, that would be my first suggestion to you for an upright. These vacuums are VERY light to push, have stretch hose & onboard tools, & a barefloor shifter to shut brushroll off & clean barefloor. Cloth HEPA bags can be purchased in bulk online for inexpensive prices, so there would hardly be any dust emissions. And it's also nice that they have a metal bottom plate & brushroll for durability. And Panasonic is known for reliability...it's very common to see a Panasonic upright come in for repair from the early 1990's where I live. However, having said those things....DO NOT buy a retail-grade Panasonic!! They are NOT built as well as the Performance Plus Platinum line found at dealers, & you will find many complaints about retail models on sites like Amazon. I would also suggest you steer far away from the Panasonic copycats, like the Riccar Vibrance & Fuller Brush uprights. My dealer, when he was still in business, got the Carpet Pro, Fuller Brush & Riccar Vibrance uprights to sell (as they are all made by Tacony) & had motor problems with all 3 lines! In particular, he had I think 3 or 4 of the Riccar Vibrance models come in needing new motors at 2 years old....unimpressive considering they came with a 4 year motor warranty. Panasonic's Performance Plus Platinum line truly is the best over all the "wannabe's" on the market, & best of all, they cost the same too!

The Oreck, Simplicity, Riccar & Hoover lightweight uprights....I would IMMEDIATELY rule them out. I have an Oreck XL2000RHB Commercial, same as the household Oreck XL's without the headlight, & hate it. Cleaning power is pathetic....hardly any airflow....and brushroll bristles are way too soft! And I have tried the others, too, with similar opinions of them too. Bottom line- they are what a lot of people call them, oversized broom vac's. Considering they want $300 & $400 for these uprights, why spend that kind of money when other full-size uprights clean better for far less money?!

Hoover Windtunnel Anniversary Edition & Royal Lexon S20 canisters.....Again, rule them right out! The Hoover Windtunnel Anniversary Edition has a BIG PROBLEM with the circuit board failing prematurely & requiring replacement under warranty. The 2 wires that are permanently connected to the board that supply power to the PN receptacle on the canister fail prematurely, & since those wires can't be removed & replaced, that requires replacement of the entire board. Some people claim TTI/Hoover has resolved the issue, but I don't buy it for a minute! Royal Lexon S20 canisters are the same canister with different cosmetics, different hose/wand/PN, so I would also rule it out too since it would use the same faulty circuit board.

Kenmore & Panasonic canisters....Rule them out! First off, the older models, including present-model Panasonic canisters, have problems with the PN receptacle in the hose handle, wand PN receptacle, & quick-release PN plug, burning out over time. Those can be replaced easily at home, & can also be avoided with careful usage. However, the major problem with these vacuums of recent has been their motors! Panasonic switched I believe around 2005 to a new motor design that has been VERY unreliable....it's very common to see a Panasonic or Kenmore canister come into the repair shop between 4-6 years old with a burnt-up motor, requiring a replacement, & a $200 repair bill later. Also, for the allergy sufferer....yes it's nice you can use Cloth HEPA bags, but the HEPA filter is an unsealed system, & LOTS of air escapes around the filter unfiltered, defeating it's purpose to begin with. And not impressive considering to get a entry-level Kenmore with decent features, you're gonna spend $300; about $300-$400 for the Panasonic MCG 902 with equivalent features as the Kenmore. Why spend that when for $100-$200 more, you can buy a S2 Miele with their legendary filtration?!

Riccar/Simplicity canisters....Here's my take on them. Yes, they are a good product. BUT when you start comparing them to Miele & Sebo, they don't look so good. Why? Well, they sell in the same price range, have comparable features, Cloth HEPA bags, Sealed HEPA filtration, etc....BUT what they will not be so quick to tell you is only the Riccar Impeccable, Riccar Immaculate, Simplicity Gusto & Simplicity Moxie are the ONLY MODELS that are actually made in America. And even then, ONLY THE BODY IS MADE IN AMERICA & IT'S MOLDED & THE VACUUM IS ASSEMBLED THERE! The fact is, ALL THEIR COMPONENTS are outsourced to Kingclean in China....suction motor, circuit boards, ALL OF IT are sourced from China. And the rest of their canisters, such as the Riccar Pristine & Simplicity Verve, are made by Kingclean in China. The ONLY component that is NOT Chinese-made is the electric hoses....those are outsourced to Hanmi in South Korea. My local dealer, before he went out of business, carried the Riccar Pristine & 1500P for his customers, & he had HUGE problems with the Pristine! He was literally getting brand new vacuums, & took them out & turned them on...fine. 2nd time he goes to turn it on in front of a customer....failed circuit boards!! Needless to say, he was NOT impressed...and this happened with I think 5 or 6 vacuums he received, that he had to ship back to them & have new canisters sent to replace them. Considering they are asking the same as Miele wants for their products, & prices for bags & filters are comparable to Miele bags & filters, I don't know where your loyalties lie, but I would personally choose German engineering & components over American engineering & Chinese components.

Miele....Yes, they are a good product, & arguably one of the best choices you could buy right now in a canister. BUT they are VERY overpriced for what you get. And the cost of their bags & filters is absolutely ridiculous. $20 for one 4 pack of bags?!?! $50-$60 for a HEPA filter?!?! Madness! Way too expensive to use & maintain on a regular basis, at least for my liking. I actually have 2 Miele's that hardly see any use for that very reason, & have considered many times selling them. Also, about the Miele S8 uprights...sure they are nice, but again the high cost of the bags would deter me. Especially when the Panasonic Performance Plus Platinum uprights use Cloth HEPA bags, they clean just as well, & the Optiflow models do have a HEPA filter before the motor now, making them sealed. And generic Cloth HEPA bags can be found for the Panasonic for 1/2 the cost of Miele bags, that would work just as well at containing the dust.

Sebo....I would completely disagree with Rob Shore's comments above! I personally own a Sebo Airbelt C3.1 canister with the ET-C computerized powerhead, & I love it!! And I will one day justify upgrading to the D4 Airbelt model, probably when in 10 or 15 years from now my C3.1 motor finally dies. I personally like the hose on my Sebo better than my 2 Miele's....I find it more flexible, longer, & not as rigid. Plus it's also nice that the speed control is right at my fingertips. You can use the speed control to shut down the entire vacuum from the hose. Only disadvantage with Sebo is unless you have the ET-1 powerhead, there is no way to shut off the brushroll, as there is no on/off switch on the hose for the powerhead. Rob Shore has mentioned in the past he felt that Sebo's suction & airflow wasn't as strong as Miele....I haven't found that to be the case. The bags are bigger on Sebo D4 than Miele's G/N bags that the S8 Series uses, & Sebo's bag & filters are more reasonably priced, too. I will agree with Rob that the ET-1 powerhead isn't as good as the Miele SEB228 or SEB236, the brushes are softer on Sebo ET-1 & doesn't groom as aggressively. However, the Sebo ET-C L shaped computerized powerhead is still available, so you could always specify your new D4 come with the ET-C instead of the ET-1. If that isn't possible, then you could buy an ET-C powerhead separately & sell the ET-1 on Ebay. Tools are just as nice on the D4 as the Miele models too. And I personally feel that the Sebo canisters are better made & better quality than Miele. Due to this, & the bag & filter costs, I would choose Sebo over Miele.

Here are my reccomendations to you for a canister, NYCWriter. Sebo if you want a German-made canister with high-end filtration & features.

I would also suggest you look at a REFURBISHED older-model Aerus Electrolux canister on Ebay. One really good way to go would be to buy one from American Vacuum Supply on Ebay. They have the plastic-bodied Electrolux canisters, usually under $250, refurbished with brand new Electrolux motor installed. Then I would walk into your Aerus dealer, & buy a brand new hose, wand, & powerhead with the new-style brushroll, & new tools to complete it. This way, you are essentially getting a brand-new Electrolux BUT with the better-quality double stage motor Electrolux was known for, not their crappy single-stage Johnson Electric motors they use now. And you can also use the Perfect Cloth HEPA bags in them, which are very inexpensive, & the afterfilters, & get very good filtration....comparable to a Miele with the Super Air Clean filter installed & using the Cloth HEPA bags. Yes, they may not have fancy features such as speed control, but if you want reliability & a cleaner that cleans circles around the others, you can't beat a well-maintained Electrolux canister. I would imagine you could put everything together for a total cost of around $800-$1000.

If you don't mind buying a Chinese-made product: I would also suggest looking at the Perfect C101 metal canister, that is a copy of the Electrolux Diamond Jubilee but without the Automatic Control feature for bag changes. It has SUPERIOR suction to ANYTHING suggested above, or in any of the other member's posts....125" waterlift! That's 25% more than Miele, Riccar/Simplicity or Sebo even have!! Plus, they have a on/off switch on the hose handle for the powerhead, & they have perfected the L-shaped Electrolux powerhead & made it an excellent groomer & deep-cleaner with the new chevron brushroll. Tools are exactly the same as you would see on an Electrolux, except they offer a hand turbobrush instead of a Sidekick. But you could always buy a Sidekick for it at an Aerus dealer or on Ebay if you have to have one. You can use Electrolux 4-ply bags for economy, or for great filtration you can use the Perfect Cloth HEPA bags.

A refurbished TriStar CXL or DXL on Ebay would also be another great choice. Metal body, great suction, simple classic design that there's hardly anything to break down. Motor can always be replaced or have carbons changed when it's time. And the powerhead is OK, but if you desire something more powerful, a Sweep & Groom powerhead & new wands can always be purchased & used with the TriStar. As for filtration, you can purchase the Medik-Aire HEPA filter offered with the Patriot & Air-Storm TriStar copycat vacuums, & use that with your TriStar. Pricey at $200 a filter, BUT you should be able to get 5 years usage out of one too.

If I was in your shoes, I would be looking hard at the Perfect & a refurbished Electrolux myself. Perhaps the Panasonic uprights, but then again I am more a canister guy myself.

Best of luck to you, & hopefully I have been of some help....Rob

 

[bimmer740]

NYCwriter, if you are set on an upright that is convenient to use but are willing to compromise as far as on board tools are concerned, the latest Aerus Guardian Upright maybe a good choice. The latest model is much more powerful then any previous Electrolux upright, and its a tried and true design that's been around for more then 20+ years. The commercial version, the ProLux, has been used by many large retail chains like CVS and RadioShak for year and both commercial and domestic units can stand up to years of hard use. The domestic model also comes with a 10 warranty.

The machine is a pretty straight forward design that's very easy to use, and it has two motors which allows the brush roll to be shut off when cleaning bare floors. As for the attachments, they are not stored on-board but they are all stored in a nice sturdy caddy which doesn't take up much room. It could even by hung from a large hook mounted inside a closet so it doesn't take up any floor space. The attachments that come with the upright are nearly the same as those that have been offered with Electrolux canisters for decades. The hose that comes with the machine is also electrified and a small electric power head is included as well, which is great for cleaning upholstery and bedding. I don't know of any other upright on the market that has an electric hose, only straight suction with air powered tools. The hose insert directly into the top of the machine, no bending or fussing is necessary and it really couldn't be any easier to set up. While some find the lack of on-board attachments to be a bother, I happen to prefer not having them on the machine. It usually makes the machine lighter and easier to maneuver around furniture since they aren't as bulky. I also like how all the attachments are neatly stored in their own caddy. If you use a vacuum to dust or do above the floor cleaning then the Lux is an excellent choice because of the hose length and where it is positioned on the machine.

The Lux is in the same price range and the TOL Miele S7 machines but they are user friendly and will last a very long time. The bags aren't huge but they are very inexpensive compared to some high filtration bags and the machine also has a standard HEPA filter. Check out the Aerus if you can, I think you will like it. I'm in north shore Long Island and we still have several dealers that aren't that far away, so I'm sure you will be able to find a few dealers in the city.

Best of luck!
~Steven

 

[GM1982]

Regarding the Aerus Lux's

Bimmer 740 & KirbyLux77,

I have the Aerus Guardian Upright for over a year now. Its a great machine, grooms extremely well and very easy to maneuver. The tool accessory kit does have the electrified hose and other attachments which are quality, however after having this vacuum, connecting and disconnecting the attachments are starting to become annoying, especially when you have to hit the bathroom floor or above ceiling quickly. I feel this vacuum is better suited for an environment with lots of wall to wall carpeting and very little need or use for the tool set. Also, I have noticed there is some air that escapes at the bottom of the machine that is prior to the HEPA filter on the side of the machine. This is not a sealed machine then.

The Aerus or Electrolux canisters, some have this problem as well, air escaping from the cord winder hole or the handle. I feel the build and filtration quality suffers in some areas, even though its a solid performer.

Next time around, I really would put my dime on the Miele S7, Sebo Felix or maybe a Riccar Brilliance in the Uprights (or) for canisters, Miele Callisto, Sebo D4 or the new Aerus Platinum Canister, which is new for 2013, but very expensive and overpriced, however, the build quality is much better than the all white Aerus line up. 2007-2012 models.

My recommendations:

Upright= Sebo Felix, Miele S7 Salsa.
Canister= Miele Callisto, Sebo D4
High Roller= Aerus Platinum Canister / Miele S8 Uniq
Mid Range= Kenmore Intuition Upright/Panasonic Canister
Budget= Hoover Wind Tunnel
Commercial= Oreck Upright/Pro Team

 

[ctsooner]

This is one great thread. Thanks to all for playing, lol. Hopefully others have gotten a lot out of it. I know I have. I have just been outbid for the Moxie. I am scared about the lack of warranty, even though this is the new unit with the new cirrcut board in the handle. I don't know what the winning bid will be but it's up to 227 plus shipping. The owner of the store and I have emailed back and forth and he sure seems legit and I'd pay in paypal, so I guess I wouldn't worry about it not being what he says it is. He says he buys 12 at a time and then sells the demo's on Ebay.

How many of you have bought demo's on Ebay where you won't have a warranty? How has it worked out? I will be looking strongly at the miele earth, Sebo D4 white (not sure on the power head as there is a choice) and the Moxie or Gusto depending on if I can get a good deal on someone's store demo. Last week there was a demo and I think he said 599, although I'd want it for a bit less based on some info I've gotten on this thread and from some others.

 

[bimmer740]

GM1982

I'm surprised to hear about air leaking from around the HEPA filter. I know air escapes from the handle area of my 6500 but I don't believe Electrolux had ever claimed it was a totally sealed system and as I'm sure you know the current model still doesn't have a HEPA filter.

As for using the tools with the Lux upright, I guess that really comes down to a personal preference. I have had the Discovery II, Epic 3500, and Aerus Lux 3000 in the past, probably for a total of more then 10 years and I didn't find it a problem to use the tools, but that is all dependent on the user, and of course it certainly wasn't my sole vacuum.

The Miele S7 sounds like a fabulous machine. I haven't used one yet but I've had 3 Miele canisters in the past and they were terrific machines. All were quiet, very powerful, and well made. I really liked my Blue Moon and its large bag as well as the power nozzle that had the metal bottom (224?) which cleaned my wool area rug better then the 236 pn. The 236 however was amazing on every other type of carpeting that I have and worked well for quick bare floor cleaning. It was quite heavy which I think helps it really dig into the carpet. I've heard some complaints about the handle being heavy and there was a thread on this forum a few years ago where 2 members had a problem with the S7 hose. I have yet to use a Sebo Felix. The Felix looks like a nice machine and since it came out many forum members have given it a favorable review. I just can't imagine using it for extensive above the floor cleaning since it seems bulky and the standard hose is short. However the option to remove to power nozzle and use the parquet tool is very appealing.

 

[GM1982]

.... Yes the Sebo Felix does have a short hose, hence the S7 is more practical for some because the hose is very long and comes with a wand. The Aerus Guardian Upright that I have (white) has a HEPA filter and its sealed to the side of the machine, but air does escape at the bottom of the unit, near the duct. I mean for $700, there are better options. Ex: Miele S7 or Riccar Brilliance. I think Aerus could incorporate some sort of tool system to their uprights and add LED headlight for this price point.

 

[lunchboxsean]

Simple

You want to reduce noise and dust but want a high end cleaner. Simple solution. Miele 7580. Superior hepa filtration, quiet, great carpet grooming, fantastic build quality. Should run you 700-800 bucks. Some of the best money you'll ever spend.

 

[nycwriter]

Thank you lunchbox ...

And the irony here ... nearly 200 replies later ... is that I'll likely end up right where I was when I first posted ... with the Miele upright.

After, of course, I do a few other test drives.

Unfortunately -- who are we kidding -- it's highly unlikely I'm going to go to the Bronx or Long Island to buy a vacuum (or even test one). If it's not sold in Manhattan, it'll probably be a "no".

 

[luxman107]

Ok, here is my take and I am not saying it to piss anyone off, so jump on my case if u want to. .but all higher end vacuums suck well and if cared for will last a long time. To me what it comes down to is the above the floor tools and in my personal opinion is the Miele tools h are horrid especially that dinky dust brush. The old Electrolux now aerus are the best. The flip for brush is great fore bare floors and works great on area rugs too. The combo dust,fabric brush can't be beat anywhere.

 

[GM1982]

Luxman107:

Yes, the Aerus dusting brush is a nice tool, I have it for my Guardian Upright. However, Miele does make a much larger dusting brush, bigger than the Aerus one, its quality. The accessories that come with any Miele, yeah they are small, however, the features, options, fit and finish on Miele for the price is still more attractive than any Aerus. You would have to jump up to the new Platinum canister for similar options of a Miele, but who is willing to pay $2,000 for the Platinum, which still won't have telescoping wands, just to get variable suction, quiet motor and hepa filtration. Aerus does not even have the Platinum on its website yet...they need to get out of the draconian direct sales mantra and market themselves better, or else they will not be able to compete with the rest of the Top Brands.

 

[luxman107]

GM1982'
My lux dealer is selling the platinum to anyone off the steet for 1299. Got mine 2 months ago for less than that.
I agree with you 100 % on aerus marketing I don't know how they compete with the average consumer

 

[funeraldirector]

Making Sense in Orilla

Rob,

Very nice breakdown on machines for these two potential consumers. You are spot-on actually with your observations and correct in your characterization of Sebo as better than most. It is. Period. Of the canisters discussed here, both it and the Filter Queen will stand up to use in a commercial setting as well.

As for Simplicity/Riccar, The Moxie and Gusto, formerly 1700P/S36 and 1800/S38 were developed jointly between Tacony and Daewoo of South Korea and the power nozzle by Cen-Tec . Development cost for the project was around one million US and they were built there until the move to St J, MO. The new hose and circuit board were replaced by a Plastiflex model. I am not sure there were or are chinese sourced motors in those units as they are the same Daewoo components. Anyone had or willing to tear one apart? These particular models now are extremely reliable. I just spoke at length with Tom G. just before the Christmas holiday.

Brian

 

[nycwriter]

"Aerus ... they need to get out of the draconian direct sales mantra and market themselves better, or else they will not be able to compete with the rest of the Top Brands."

Indeed.

The world has changed since 1963.

A very big reason why Miele is outselling brands like Electrolux and Kirby is that it's just so damn hard to even FIND those brands anywhere.

 

[funeraldirector]

GM1982

George,


Never thought of my Lux Guardian Platinum as being a "high roller" lol! I spoke at length with the President of Aerus this past week about my new machine and what I like, love and feel needs improvement. I do think there will be some changes down the road. He was very interested in what my experiences were with the machine and what I actually thought compared to the focus groups. The development of the machine itself took 6 years and was split between them and partner Lux International AG. I think the wands. p/n etc remain unchanged as they see how the unit will sell in the North American marketplace. I use the 48011 Lux HPO roller assy. from the lux 9000 and it is stiffer than the double helix it came with. I like the way it vibrates the carpet and pulls itself along better. The double helix roller grooms better though. The quality of this machine is also wayyyy better than the Guardian Ultra. It looks like I'm going back to work for Lux.


This would be an excellent unit for NYCWRITER.


Brian

 

[ctsooner]

Just back from the Sebo store, lol. The missed the owner by 5 minutes, but I'll go back tomorrow or tues if I can. I will negotiate to purchase the D4 from him with the ET1 head. I LOVED it. I played with it for awhile. I vacuumed a good chunk of the store and I was able to carry on a conversation with the woman working there. Honestly, due to you guys, I knew more than she. She has three hairy dogs and is going to ask the owner to sell her a D4 or a Felix tomorrow. She has had a Miele top of the line for 13 years and feels it is built well, but not close to the D4. She also doesn't like how the Miele cleans, especially compared to the Sebo. She works sewing machines and has never seen the vacuums. He had the 500 Dyson upright there too and that was a joke in both build and in performance. The tools on the Sebo have great shapes and I liked them more than the Miele's tools. The 236 head on the Miele is the one I like, but the ET1 just seems to go where I tell it to and I like the swivel on it. I took the roller out without being told how and it took me about 10 seconds. It will be very very easy to keep clean of all the crap in the house it will pick up IF he gives it to me for what I'm willing to pay. He won't have to spend any time with me to 'sell' me or show me anything and even though he may service the machine, it didn't look like he has a big shop for vacuums. Sewing machines and blinds are more his deal. His brother owns a store about 30 minutes away that sells Riccar. I didn't even know we had a Riccar dealer in the state other than the Glastonbury store, but when I just looked to see his brother's store, I realized that they own the first store I went to originally. Small world this vacuum world, lol. I'll see what happens when I go in with cash and put it in his hand and ask if he'll make the sale. If not, I'll start to work the net as I can't go over my original budget and now I want the D4. At least he'll make some money and move a unit quickly.

 

[ctsooner]

NY Writer

Have you gone to a Sebo dealer to play with their uprights yet? If not, you need to before buying. I went to Lux and the guy was rude and a jerk. I LOVED the new one though. What a cool machine and it's bulletproof. Worked great too.

I didn't even realize I tried the Felix as well as the 800 upright last week when I started to look and like the D4, they felt right and were solid. Worked great too, although I like the D4 much better, but that's why they make so many different models and so many companies make a living selling them.

Good luck to you in playing with the machines as that's what really sets them apart for me. Kind of what I tell everyone about audio and video. You MUST look, play, look and listen BEFORE you purchase and not after you have buyers remorse. Good luck.

 

[GM1982]

FuneralDirector,

Hey, I'd love to stick with Aerus and want to like their products, however, they need to improve in a few areas, mainly features, price and marketing. They need to get the name "aerus" out there as Miele already does this. Also, I would say the same for Riccar, but they are a little ahead in terms of marketing and promotion, however, they do not allow sales over the internet. Aerus is made in the U.S. and they should bank on that as a solid marketing strategy. However, they need to modernize the machines, like the direction of the platinum.

 

[sebo_fan]

Headlights - a pro or a con?

Personally I feel no need for headlights on an upright. Oh I know that the U.S and Canada love them - that's why mostly all uprights have them as standard. In most of Europe and the UK there is no call for headlights -its another thing to replace when they go. I like the LEDs that Miele fit on their S7 but its not standard across the range with the addition solely exclusive on the two top of the line models that Miele in the UK sell.

Clearly then that paints the story - if they were that important you'd have thought Miele would have fitted them right across the S7 upright range.

 

[nycwriter]

ctsooner and sebo fan:

I'll definitely try out a Sebo before making my decision.

And as far as headlights -- I don't see why anyone would prefer to *not* have them. And for units over $300, not including them is just plain cheap. Sort of like the Hoover Convertible uprights from the '60s and '70s that provided a nearly 360 degree rubber bumper surround only on their "deluxe" models, and for the lesser models installed rubber bumpers that reached around only the front and halfway back along the sides. Really?? Rubber was SO expensive Hoover couldn't afford to spring for those remaining 8 inches or so on the cheaper units??

 

[eurekaprince]

I find headlights really useful - it helps to warn you before you run the vac over something in the dark under an office desk, or in a dark corner or under the edge of a bed or behind the Lazyboy lounger in the den. It also helps to see if you missed something - even in the wide open turf of carpet in the middle of a room. Sometimes, the headlight sheds light on the dirt or a pen that is hiding between your night-table and your bed ("Oh that's where THAT went...."). And certainly, for those uprights that can be used to clean bare floors, it helps a lot to avoid vacuuming up a liquid spill in the bathroom or running into plastic bags on the floor in the kitchen or socks on the floor under a bed - when sucked up these can clog your airpath and force you to stop what your doing to fix the clog.

Headlights also give some "life" to the vac when you turn it on! It's like it's got its eyes open in the search for dirt!

I must say, I love the little "flashlight" Miele has integrated into the hose handle on the S8 canisters! What a simple yet really useful idea - can you imagine how this will help cleaning a car in a dark garage? I've often had to bring a flashlight down to the garage to see what is lurking under the car seats!

And headlights are really simple electrical devices to add to a vacuum's power head - two wires and a teeny lightbulb on the old Eurekas gave us some brilliant illumination on the Rugulator uprights. LEDs look really cool now - not sure how much more complicated the wiring needs to be for them.

It just goes to show you how the market really works in synergy with the marketers to define what is a valuable feature. We in North America rarely get a "radiator" brush as an attachment with our canisters now - these seem to be standard in a vac package in Europe. Europe has this great idea which has yet to ever catch on in North America: floor polishers that vacuum up the dust as you buff! (The Sebo Felix sold here allows you to buy the attachment that does this here now)

Matt - I sure hope you know how to upload videos to YouTube! We cleanerphiles are going to want to see the new toy you bring home once you decide which one to buy!

 

[durango159]

Try before you buy

CTSooner, I would not rebid that demo Simplicity Moxie. I would definitely get warranty. Any manufacturer can have a lemon.

Rob Walton- KirbyLux77, I don't believe I ever stated that Mieles had bad suction. I tried Vaccrazy's Meile Blue Moon and thought it was a great machine with terrific suction. The SEB236 did seem to steer where it wanted and 100% where I wanted but otherwise it was a nice machine. Unfortunately that's the only Miele I have EVER had the opportunity to try. A really nice feature of many Mieles is you can park the wands in the back of the canister and it will turn off the machine while you readjust furniture etc. Then machine turns on again upon taking wands out of storage.

NYCWriter- I don't think you've been nasty at all. I have no problems with any of your posts. Just wanted to put that out, I'm not sure what set off Kirbyloverdan on that. Just out of curiosity what is the dislike towards Long Island. I've heard Bronx is not the nicest area but never heard anything bad about Long Island. It's my belief both are about 10 minutes away in a taxi. Please enlighten and/ or criticize me if any of that is inaccurate!!

For CTSooner, NYCWriter and anyone else seeking a vacuuming I am sticking by my Sebo feelings 110% of completely avoiding them!!! One thing you need to realize if you already haven't is that private dealer vacuum stores do not have the generous return policies like Big Box stores Lowe's, Home Depot or others. Once you purchase and leave that store with a vacuum, YOU BETTER LIKE IT!!! Try, try, try, test, use all accessories, move it around, try different carpet types, bring in a small carpet sample of your own from home or a throw rug from your home and see how you like on all these surfaces. See if the store will let you take a unit home and test it at your home for a day.

What I like on the Sebo D4: long 40' cord, very fast cord retractor, sealed system, very quiet, nice upholstery nozzle, metal bottom extension on telescoping wand, variable speed at fingertips, easy to service brush roll, durable, solid construction and reliability.

What to be cautious of with them:
-- Sebo's only power nozzle that you can turn agitator off for bare floors or otherwise is the ET-1 power nozzle. On that one, it is a very tiny button on the power head that is operable but yet very difficult to turn off with your feet, or maybe my size 10 shoes are just too big for it!! Inexcusable for price paid!!
-- No headlight on any Sebo. On a canister power nozzle where you can go under beds and other furniture, I find this inexcusable especially when paying $800 or so!!!
-- Poor carpet grooming, poor carpet cleaning. On a low profile commercial grade carpet it will zap up rice and other dirt. On a thicker rug, the power head seems to lack the power to properly groom and clean the rug. On a looser weave rug or area rug, the power nozzle turns itself off and is completely incapable of cleaning these rugs at all!!!
-- No edge cleaning on one side, the other side edge cleaning is still terrible.
-- Electric hose wiring connector constantly disconnects itself and flaps around in the air at hose handle. I've never seen a canister vacuum with this awkward loose wire that connects wiring in hose to handle. All of this should be internal, sloppily done in my mind!!
--Inside of suction unit handle has very sharp seam. On occasion I do quick cleanings and vacuum in a hurry. I carry the suction unit in one hand and maneuver power nozzle with other. It's too hard and uncomfortable to do that with the Sebo. Terrible handle design.
--Suction is good, but the Tacony and even another customers Hoover Windtunnel Anniversary canister is stronger. I always run the Sebo on full blast to get the unit to clean right and am still not happy with carpet results. At my other clients on her Berbers I drop the the Hoover Anniversary down to 60% power. My workshop at relatives house where we have Riccar 1700 I run it primarily at 60% power regardless of surface being cleaned and results for both are FANTASTIC!! Yet the Sebo is the newest of all those units.
-- Dusting brush is a joke. Very teeny, tiny and yet bulky plastic on it, makes it difficult to reach many others that you'd want a dusting brush for.
--Unit itself is quite bulky and crashes into everything and awkward to carry.
-- No connection on power nozzle wands to attach power head to suction base for one handed carrying around premises. This is a feature that is nearly standard on several other brands of canister vacuums such as Hoover, Royal, Panasonic, Kenmore, Riccar, Simplicity, Miele and others.
-- Only hose handle functions for user is variable speed.
-- Bend down turn dial for height adjuster. Most canisters are foot pedal
-- Hose handle is uncomfortable after several minutes use-- I have new blisters on my hands from the Sebo.
--Non universal hand grip WILL NOT FIT other manufacturers attachments!!

To each user a new experience. We all have likes, dislikes. In my opinion the dislikes outweigh the pros for the D4 and I strongly recommend against it!! I've been a canister vacuum lover since around 9 years old. I am now 30, and I can't think of a canister vac that I have a harder time with than the D4. I don't like the power nozzle set up on the Kenmore Intuition canisters but at least on that unit it has convenient finger tip controls, powerful suction and better cleaning power over the Sebo. The Kenmore has standard size hose and will fit other manufacturer attachments along with many other Kenmore/ Panasonic power heads.

I have also spoken with Tom Gasko who is on the inside at Tacony and they have made lots of changes to their products and don't have those problems anymore. I know many repair shops that have terrific success with Riccar/ Simplicity and Miele!!

The Perfect C101 is a nice machine, I recommend looking at that. Mieles are decent, Riccar, Simplicity, Lindhaus Aria is one to look at.

Just my 2 cents again!! Want to make sure you REALLY KNOW WHAT YOU'RE BUYING!!

 

[sebo_fan]

Where all things considered NYC, you have to consider what you need rather than desire. It may be the case that money is no object but Id definitely consider any machine with a longer hose or a long power cord which will be easier to use in a large flat.

Sadly SEBO U.S has not yet bought in the suction only D series canister vacs. Im completely happy with my D2 as it lacks the power nozzle function and I can vacuum whatever I want as my D2 Total comes with interchangeable floor heads. It is strange that even now after a year's release, SEBO U.S have not yet brought the lower line models in. If you are that interested in Sebo's larger canister contact Sebo U.S and ask them if they can bring in a suction only D2. It won't hurt if you ask!

But then when all things considered, I'm not a fan of heavy vacuums; the D2 is probably the heaviest canister vac I own. I don't believe that in all my years of experience, a heavier vacuum cleaner is easier to use or sustains constant or closer physical presence to a carpet, hard floor or rug. I've read other reports of other brand power nozzles snagging on rugs including Miele's different types. For years we were led to believe that uprights gave better performance on carpets just because we had power nozzles and beater bars. NO wonder its confusing in the U.S as the UK don't have many canisters with power nozzles in the fear that it will kill upright sales and also for the fact that whenever they have appeared, Power nozzle fitted canisters can end up being far heavier than a conventional, older upright vacuum that the owner once had. By design canisters should be smaller, lighter to lift and with comparative parts that are just as light and easy to use. In recent years, the push to equip canisters with power nozzles somewhat drowns out the old equation that a canister is automatically lighter and easier to control than a bulkier upright.

Rugs are also all very well to have in a home but unless they are nailed to a floor, they can be difficult to clean, regardless of whether you use a suction only floor head or a power nozzle. I generally find suction only floor heads can get rid of dust but at all times you have to stand on the rug to clean it, to avoid it being scooped up by the floor head. If it is of small size, I shake them outside my front door!

Also I dont believe that by buying a top of the line Miele will get the best results. Here in the UK you can custom build to your needs - so a a base line model that is about to retire, or a model that has limited life left in the range such as Miele's S5000 range (replaced by the new S8) could be an excellent cheaper to buy vacuum cleaner dependent on your needs. It depends on what you are offered at the time of purchase in terms of different floor heads for example - the base machines have great power (and I'm sorry Durango but Sebo's upholstery brush on the D is exactly the same as Miele's round brush, both made by Wessel Werks) and have the ability of storing all of its three smaller cleaning tools inside a flap within the body of the vacuum - the newer S2 and S6 models lack this facility, with the S6 having a much smaller dust capacity bag compared to the bigger GN dust bag fitted in the budget line S2, S5 and S8.

Statistically, the Thunder has a 3 litre dust bin capacity - Miele's GN bags are 4.5 litres to 5 litres capacity DEPENDENT ON the design of the internal dust bin. Having just had a look at the U.S site, Miele's retired S728 canister uses the smaller FJM bag but in that design it allows 4 litres of dust maximum compared to the 0.5 litre lost in the more modern S6 and S4 retired line. I know I had all three vacuums - and I find that the much smaller, more modern lighter Miele canisters have smaller internal dust bins compared to the older, heavier S500 and S700 range (not to be confused with the "thousand" model differentiated numbers with the current vacs.)

Thus for all your floor needs and cleaning desires, I would go for Miele or any canister vac that can get around your property, evidently requiring a long travel or long cord for convenience but I wouldn't go necessarily with a power nozzle alone, thus the convenience of a canister means you can swap about floor tools. I see Miele US have a Miele S5981 Capricorn that comes with a power nozzle as standard. That's a good all rounder, even if ALL Miele canisters have short power cord lengths. That's a compromise you need to live with unless you go for the SEBO D4 and require a dust bag twice the capacity than your old Thunder and twice the amount of cord length. You can also buy a suction only floor head that could give you a much lighter and faster cleaning experience - all of Miele's suction only floor tools with pedals to change down to carpets are well made - and in my experience a great deal easier to use than coping with a heavy power nozzle.

Or if you can't be bothered to change floorheads,try the Miele S7 upright baseline like the S7210 Twist. I may be a SEBO FAN but the SEBO Felix is a great COMPACT upright with a smaller dust bag (3.5 litre but you'll get twice as many bags than Miele's standard 4 in a box) and though it can cope in a large home due to its long power cord, it isn't as easy or fast to use than my X uprights due to the wand release and top hoister design. The Miele S7 has a bigger dust bag than the Felix with a much easier to use wand release and only remains to be less agile due to its physical size. If you must live with LED lights, then go for the Cat and Dog S7260. Anything else by Miele in the U.S above these models seems to be over priced and confusing...

Example - the top of the line S7580 has the same spec as the whole range of S7 uprights but comes with extra small cleaning tools. Miele have added the words "electrobrush" as a feature - but they all have that feature!!

 

[nycwriter]

Durango ...

Size 10, huh?

I'm still going to give the Sebo a test drive ... couldn't hurt. But I have to admit that lack of a headlight on the power nozzle is a near-deal killer. Quite often I sweep in less-than-ideal lighting (inside closets, down dim hallways, and with a canister, hopefully, under furniture). I know that the better-built units can suck up nuts and bolts and ball bearings and 50-calibre bullets and just about anything else safely, but just because you CAN doesn't mean you SHOULD. It still stresses the system, and if the headlight catches a foreign object before the sweeper does, all the better to pick it up yourself rather than risk it causing a problem inside the sweeper. I suppose this kind of care is why my Fantom is still almost new after 16 years.

We're not talking about an esoteric technology that requires research, patents, and a complete system redesign. It's just a freaking LIGHT. Put one on. Done.

I was initially excited about the Riccar being made in the USA -- until I did closer research and learned it's essentially only ASSEMBLED in the USA out of Chinese parts. Boo.

So it looks like I'll be test-driving a Royal canister ... Sebo canister ... and both the Miele UniQ and upright.

 

[ctsooner]

Now I'm rethinking. That's the only problems with boards, lol. All along the PN's with light are the ones I seem to like the best. The Miele and Moxie were the two I liked at first and for some reason the lights got my attention. I also feel that the Moxie should have LED's lights, but at least they have them. I love the long cord/hose on the Sebo and that it's pretty much bulletproof. I like the look also. It seems so solid, but honestly, I've spent more time playing with it than the others. I need to take control when I go into the stores and tell them what I want to play with and then do it. I wish I had a higher pile carpet to bring in with me with my own dirt, lol. I honestly can't spend an arm and a leg. I just don't have it right now, but I"m willing to stretch a bit to get my last vacuum. Time to go out again, lol. I still have it narrowed down a bit.

Question: Why does the Riccar site show an 1800/1700 and it looks like it's the same vacuum as the Immaculate/Impeccable? Is it just color? When will the 2013 vacs hit the market? Should I wait a few weeks?