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Rocketman said:
Vacuum Facts

Thank you. Do you have a timeline when your review on the V16 along with the hack will be released?
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Depends when the US gets a release and when the numerically significant sources of nonsense that originate from there (it seems from the relative silence of reviews currently on YT) finish their 'reviews'. I'm deliberately last this time, rather than first. Sucks, but it's only because of the new technologies in there that Dyson aren't marketing details of. If it drags on BTW, I'll just release some myth busting videos to tie people over.
 
Does the hack involve modifying the cleaner head? So straight suction tools are still worse? Or is it a software thing? It doesn't seem people are noticing the extra battery life over the lower cleaning performance, so i'm hoping Dyson reverses course with an update. I'm seeing a lot of complaints about the cleaning performance, but no mention of the battery life.
 
Vacuum Facts said:
Yeah, maybe. it's fairly intuitive. As always, what's the point of cleaning if you don't do the job properly.

I mean, your own link just verified my point and refuted yours. They say nothing about replacing them and only mention additional filters to maintain usage whilst the other is drying if you've not figured out you can use a cool fan to speed up drying time. I'm confident that your claim was a falsehood after being given a chance to defend it and failing. This, I've noticed, is a running theme from much of your output, which reduces credibility for future factual claims. It simply verified this place is too much of an exclusive echo chamber, where too often, merely challenging factual claims (that are clearly falsehoods) results in hypersensitivity and aggressively defensive behaviour.

However, you're right about rinsing with water alone not always unclogging a filter (for Dyson filters; I can't comment about others, other than their technology is inferior). I recently has this issue on the V16 after a ridiculous flour test. But this isn't something any user would likely face in normal real world use, and my careful and gentle machine wash technique restored to factory default. The mild detergent helps detach sticky substances caked onto the filter fibres.
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I use dish soap and water to wash the pre motor filter on my Dyson, and it always comes out very clean.
 


According to this reddit comment, (could be BS of course), but they were working on an upgrade to the VisNav but Dyson cancelled it before mass firing loads of people in the UK. The entire new Robot Vacuum is Picea designed with a Dyson logo on top except for the Cyclone taken from the VisNav on the dock.

What a shame if that's true.
 
Shame that Dyson would fire good engineers yet allow his son to waste money on their shitty lamps and lights.

Sad to watch this company go down hill in real time. I hope this robot vacuum is a financial failure. Maybe they will learn then.
 
vac14012 said:


According to this reddit comment, (could be BS of course), but they were working on an upgrade to the VisNav but Dyson cancelled it before mass firing loads of people in the UK. The entire new Robot Vacuum is Picea designed with a Dyson logo on top except for the Cyclone taken from the VisNav on the dock.

What a shame if that's true.
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The plan has been replaced with the Spot+Scrub.
 
Vacuum Facts said:
Depends when the US gets a release and when the numerically significant sources of nonsense that originate from there (it seems from the relative silence of reviews currently on YT) finish their 'reviews'. I'm deliberately last this time, rather than first. Sucks, but it's only because of the new technologies in there that Dyson aren't marketing details of. If it drags on BTW, I'll just release some myth busting videos to tie people over.
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@Vacuum Facts Maybe you can release snippets and some datas first and in the meantime, before finally truly releasing the full review (in other words, minor videos followed up by major review video), with myth busting stuffs in the process. The best of both worlds: we get to know more earlier, without having your process rushed like normally.
 
Vacuum Facts said:
So I've figured out what's going on and where all the sources of performance 'downgrade' are, and shown that for the most part, there's a really simple hack you can do to restore performance to be near the Gen5. The ugly unswept centre line that all the Dyson haters are fixating on actually contributes negligibly, since you overlap strokes.

There's no software issue. It's running right. The 450 W label represents its nominal power. This is reduced compared to the Gen5 and they've clearly done this by modifying the default power mode to be much lower, with changes to sensitivity so that it's in its 'boosted' mode, when it detects a lot of dirt, much less to save on battery. This optimisation means you've got to be aware of this in testing to avoid accidentally not using its unboosted mode, which the Gen5 remained in for longer with typical test conditions. It is possible to get the ~900 W motor power output, but it will rarely ever be used, really highlighting the half truth of marketing ever bigger airwatts to cosmetically outshine the competition. I'll cover all this in my review. Suffice to say, that performance wise, with a little hack (that is ridiculous that it's needed and really what should be criticised since it was avoidable), and understanding how testing differs from real-world use, the V16 no longer really feels like a significant performance downgrade. I still think they've over focussed on run time increases rather than performance, but this appears to be a direct consequence of the majority of people not even noticing...or caring...about small performance increases. THey genuinely don't notice, but they do notice run times. Dyson seem to have done a best of both worlds approach for this one, increasing run times at the slight expense of performance (once the hack is applied). That one stupid design choice meant that performance reduction was hugely exaggerated but anyone who cares can fix this, as I'll show in the review. It does now feel like an upgrade overall, with caveats. Same with the new separator; once you know its limitations and understand how to distinguish between real world performance and 'test' performance, you realise it's not a downgrade, even though you can think that with 'test dust'. In the review, I'm going to explain how it works and why it can be poor in some circumstances—which you don't face in real world conditions but do when 'testing' from scratch. Fortunately I'm trained in spotting subtleties like this. I'm still going to criticise this machine, but I now actually like it and don't think it's a total dud for real-world use as some of the haters are desperate to claim, without evidence, yet relying on my hatred of some things.

I'm also aware of what's coming—I hope sooner than later. Can you believe this machine (the V16) was apparently completed in June 2022 according to patents, which would make it before Gen5 release. And they just sat on it for 3 years it seems. I suspect the next one is already complete.
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Vacuum Facts said:
The data is the same (although I remeasured the modified hack data with a more carefully implemented hack since and it performs great. But yes, without the hack, it is objectively worse because of one utterly stupid decision they made. But the hack is easy. You get 'near' gen5 perforamnce because the effects of the different motor sensitivity behaviour make it a little less sensitive in these kinds of tests, which is very hard to eliminate without changing the test and preventing fair comparison. But I think in real-world usage, which is subtly different to the testing, V16 performance is actually very similar to gen5, so that minor difference isn't really there in day to day use. If you do the hack, it's pretty much Gen5 with bells. My initial hatred reaction was because of that one stupid design feature needing a mod and the rest is actually good and shows why you've got to be careful interpreting 'tests'. I finished my separator test before and it proved exactly what I was expecting and confirms how it works, and where its limitations lie. Will spend a bit of time tomorrow working on that review. I'm going to have to restructure it...

The pencil vac is a hardfloor sweeper with suction + above floor vac. Interesting, but its core technologies are in the V16.
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Vacuum Facts said:
My passion isn't for Dyson per se, it's for innovation. I've seen no genuine, meaningful innovation from others. Otherwise I'd be all over it.
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Uhhh... 3,851mAh (~3.85 Ah), 25.9V, 7-cells (3.7V each), mated to 35% efficiency motor...

Why couldn't Dyson just set the motor to max nominal of the claimed 900W? This is the first time Dyson became scummy at the vacuum department. THE FIRST TIME! @Vacuum Facts

The rest of the technologies however makes the V16 great. Too bad Dyson fumbled the tuning of the machine, at least in the preliminary release. I'm expecting actual fixes so we wouldn't have to use the hack to get it work properly.
 
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Yeah it appears they fired the engineers. If that Reddit comment is to be believed. I think they're hoping the consumers are gullible enough to buy the robot just cause it has the Dyson logo slapped on top.

What's sad is there are some pretty cool patents from Dyson in the robot space that will probably now never see the light of day since they're choosing to out source.
 
@Vacuum Facts chose to delay the review partly to see if Dyson could fix the whole thing altogether.

P.S.: the problem is neither the machine nor the software controller, but rather the lack of sync between both. This initially can be fixed with a hack - Dyson needs to fix the problem altogether before full release, or customers will complain

V16 is a brilliant vacuum held back by an unexpected bug caused by lack pf sync between the new hardware and the software controller. If any of you have or plans to have a Piston, tread carefully while you use the machine.
 
Absolute Rainbow said:
@Vacuum Facts chose to delay the review partly to see if Dyson could fix the whole thing altogether.
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I can confirm that's not the reason nor have I ever stated that. I'm releasing my review after all other major 'reviewers' have had their attempt because I'm interested to see if any of them are capable of appreciating the new technologies beyond the cosmetic marketing. I doubt it, and I want that exposed.

Absolute Rainbow said:
V16 is a brilliant vacuum held back by an unexpected bug caused by lack pf sync between the new hardware and the software controller.
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This is news to me and not consistent with my latest conclusions which have already been mentioned here.
 
Vacuum Facts said:
I can confirm that's not the reason nor have I ever stated that. I'm releasing my review after all other major 'reviewers' have had their attempt because I'm interested to see if any of them are capable of appreciating the new technologies beyond the cosmetic marketing. I doubt it, and I want that exposed.
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Oh ok, but... Oh wait, you're telling me it's not the software controller's fault at all?
Vacuum Facts said:
This is news to me and not consistent with my latest conclusions which have already been mentioned here.
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@Vacuum Facts I'm mentioning the fact that V16 is indeed a brilliant vacuum normally, and is brought down very much by the issues you raised. I appreciate the innovations, that's why.

If I didn't, I would be just like most other reviewers: not appreciating the technologies beyond cosmetics enough.
Vacuum Facts said:
I suspect they're all going to be like this... And there's always a genius thinking a mop is a garbage disposal unit.
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Hmmm...
 
Vacuum Facts said:
It's surprising how few reviews there are out there of the V16. It really shows the US dominance to YT content. Given that almost all reviews out there are cosmetic or junk, it's also exposes where most of that rubbish comes from. Sadly, I won't be releasing my review for the V16 until all the major 'reviewers' have released their reviews, so Dyson's delay releasing this product to the US is a blow on that front. What I might do in the meantime though, is release some myth busting videos. Are there any demos or myths people want busting, like "it doesn't clean hard floors" etc. I want to check if the loss of carbon fibre bristles prevents fine dust removal. I've already confirmed it's the quietest machine they've ever produced, dispelling the myth it's loud.
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@Vacuum Facts and you've already confirmed that it's good at cleaning hard floors.
Vacuum Facts said:
This is true as I've already evidenced (and Frickhelm) and no one else to my knowledge, at least reputably. I assume the person who said this failed to evidence it or cite evidence. It's also something you can fix with a hack. It's an embarrassment to Dyson that a hack is needed, but they made a stupid mistake and should be called out hard for it.
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At least the preliminary release, but yeah, it's true. Dyson made a mistake, and about halved the V16 performance. @Vacuum Facts, please call Dyson out for making such embarrassing and scummy mistake at launch.
 
Vacuum Facts said:
Incidentally, this thread is now, by far, the most read (popular) in the history of this entire forum. All in just a few weeks and recently, despite the entire history of this place. This really does beautfifully reflect what can happen when more diverse topics are discussed, and evidences there's a real audience for interesting technology and topics. Thanks to all those who have contributed to this thread's success. it's worth contrasting this to the brutal and unfriendly hostility I faced here from some regulars when I first arrived; it seems it was at odds with reality.
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Congratulations!
Vacuum Facts said:
I noticed Dyson have registered a trademark in Canada for "PISTON Stylized". Maybe they've put tinsel on it to cover up its shortcomings.
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It's just a trademark. Nothing to worry. Instead, worry about that ONE mistake that made V16 a(n initial) dud by performance!
Vacuum Facts said:
There is plenty of R&D occurring. My channel even outlines some of it. And my V16 review will do what every other paltry source on the internet hasn't so far—namely discuss why the innovations are a step up in detail and how they work. Not sure what the plans for their robots are. Maybe they'll have different tiers or something; who knows. One that looks like all the other shit out there to appeal to the lowest common denominator who lack the IQ to distinguish quality from a dupe, and one that innovates.
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@Vacuum Facts can you also make an update once you're notified that Dyson finally fixed the one mistake? Assuming Dyson even manages to fix the problem for real before you post your review.
 
Vacuum Facts said:
It's interesting they put so much of the total time in that talk to the hair care range. Apparently, this area brings in as much money for them as the vacuum cleaners. The V16 was hardly mentioned, which is telling.
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I mean, they still are silently releasing, with the September 5th being their first major outing for the V16. I understand your suspicion, @Vacuum Facts
Vacuum Facts said:
They deserve a protest. Maybe they'll change things during its lifetime, who knows. They do make small revisions.
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Why not do it now? Why not protest the initial version of V16 with that one mistake you and frick noticed? Why not protest Dyson for even making said mistake in the first place? Why don't we force them to make the necessary (even if small) revision that would finally fix the mistake, now? Why not ASAP (yet)? No offense though.
 
Vacuum Facts said:
I've decided not to speculate and instead just judge what they release.
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And judging by that, the initial version of V16 doesn't truly perform well without the hack you mentioned...

Bruh to Dyson, this is the first time since the V10 domination that they managed to release a scummy product. I'm not sure if they've previously did that kind of stunt before, but this is news to us.
 
@Vacuum Facts I have a suggestion for your review: you can choose to say that V16 is a technologically advanced vacuum that doesn't initially perform well and needs your hack or a revision that fixes the problem that had severely reduced the performance. Oh, and don't forget to tell people to protest Dyson for launching this first version of a normally amazing product that doesn't truly work well without any hacks. V16 is truly amazing and would've been perfect (for an expensive flagship) if not for the one mistake Dyson didn't manage to spot in time.
 
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Absolute Rainbow said:
And judging by that, the initial version of V16 doesn't truly perform well without the hack you mentioned...

Bruh to Dyson, this is the first time since the V10 domination that they managed to release a scummy product. I'm not sure if they've previously did that kind of stunt before, but this is news to us.
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Absolute Rainbow said:
@Vacuum Facts I have a suggestion for your review: you can choose to say that V16 is a technologically advanced vacuum that doesn't initially perform well and needs your hack or a revision that fixes the problem that had severely reduced the performance. Oh, and don't forget to tell people to protest Dyson for launching this first version of a normally amazing product that doesn't truly work well without any hacks. V16 is truly amazing and would've been perfect (for an expensive flagship) if not for the one mistake Dyson didn't manage to spot in time.
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@Vacuum Facts I know, since I watched your videos.

Also, what was the mistake that reduced the power and the performance of the V16, and what's the hack that's needed to fix the initial revision/launch version of the V16? If you're able to answer that here, we would appreciate it!
 
Absolute Rainbow said:
And judging by that, the initial version of V16 doesn't truly perform well without the hack you mentioned...

Bruh to Dyson, this is the first time since the V10 domination that they managed to release a scummy product. I'm not sure if they've previously did that kind of stunt before, but this is news to us.
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The new robot vacuum is the first product from them I've seen that outright looks atrocious in every way imaginable. I don't care if they use a third party if the product still looks good. But nothing about this thing looks like it'll clean well like the VisNav did.

They've released in the past some mediocre products or maybe things that didn't work that well. Like the cinetic uprights.

But I've never seen them release such a blatantly cheaply made product like this robot vacuum looks. If they fixed up the navigation the VisNav would be the best robot vacuum ever.
 
vac14012 said:
The new robot vacuum is the first product from them I've seen that outright looks atrocious in every way imaginable. I don't care if they use a third party if the product still looks good. But nothing about this thing looks like it'll clean well like the VisNav did.

They've released in the past some mediocre products or maybe things that didn't work that well. Like the cinetic uprights.

But I've never seen them release such a blatantly cheaply made product like this robot vacuum looks. If they fixed up the navigation the VisNav would be the best robot vacuum ever.
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Is it surprising the Chinese made the newer robot, while Dyson is the main behind Vis Nav? Perhaps they're experimenting with the 3rd-party bodies- I dunno.
Absolute Rainbow said:
@Vacuum Facts I have a suggestion for your review: you can choose to say that V16 is a technologically advanced vacuum that doesn't initially perform well and needs your hack or a revision that fixes the problem that had severely reduced the performance. Oh, and don't forget to tell people to protest Dyson for launching this first version of a normally amazing product that doesn't truly work well without any hacks. V16 is truly amazing and would've been perfect (for an expensive flagship) if not for the one mistake Dyson didn't manage to spot in time.
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No matter how you cut it, V16 is now a meme machine. A spectacular machine held down shockingly by a ridiculous mistake that halves the motor power and cleaning performance. A weird-ash (censored because... IDK) case, and oh my god... LOL
 
vac14012 said:
I mean there's still time to fix it. But why would anyone buy one if the motor power is halved still by official release? Might as well just get the new V8 Cyclone.
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The motor power isn't halved. The nominal power consumption is reduced due to optimisations; power wastage is minimised when not needed, but motor power ramps up when dirt is detected. You can still get 900 W of power output in certain circumstances. I'm going to cover all this in the review.
 
vac14012 said:
I mean there's still time to fix it. But why would anyone buy one if the motor power is halved still by official release? Might as well just get the new V8 Cyclone.
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I meant motor power used getting halved. Also, yeah I agree, there's still time to fix it.
Also, V8 Cyclone won't come out until 2026, either. So make that you will.
Vacuum Facts said:
The motor power isn't halved. The nominal power consumption is reduced due to optimisations; power wastage is minimised when not needed, but motor power ramps up when dirt is detected. You can still get 900 W of power output in certain circumstances. I'm going to cover all this in the review.
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It is true you can still get 900 W goodness. But V16 defaulted to 450 W, and according to various comments at my own thread regarding the hack for the initial release of V16, it's due to the clamping problem on carpets and rugs. @Vacuum Facts

See, this is about to get memetic...
 

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