Dyson engineering ineptitude and complacency

[sptyks]

The fact is...

You can have a thousand inches of water lift, but if the diameter of the hose is too small like it is on all bagless vacuums, you will have much less air flowing through the vacuum which results in decreased ability to thoroughly clean plush carpets.

 

[kirbysthebest]

This battle has been fought

Yes suction and air flow are linked, but as one increases the other decreases. A dead air flow, strong suction. High air flow, low suction. Linked. Optimized. 





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Suction vs Airflow


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Harley is absolutely correct when he explains the concept of Suction vs Airflow!


 


Here's another way to look at it: A Tornado is a whirl of wind. There is almost no suction involved, but a Tornado can pickup a house and carry it 100 yards with very little or no


suction.


 


Take a look at your average Dyson. There's lots of suction as measured in inches of water, but take out your Baird Meter and measure the Airflow and you'll find there's very little.


 


Now look at your Kirby or metal Royal and you'll see these numbers are reversed. There's very little suction, but the Baird meter is nearly pegged at "10". Now as the brushroll, spinning at 3900 RPM, brings the dirt to the surface of the carpet, all that Airflow picks up the dirt (just like a tornado) and carries it through the fancase and into the bag. And that's why Airflow is more important than suction.


 


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Can we get back to Fairy wings now?



http://www.vacuumland.org/cgi-bin/TD/TD-VIEWTHREAD.cgi?28347

 

[sebo4me]

Tornados actually create a lot of suction. You shouldn't believe everything a sew n vac salesman tells you Stan.

The first thing that allows tornados to lift trucks, is that tornadoes generate a serious amount of updraft suction in their cores. This helps to pick things up and get things moving

 

[vacerator]

airflow/suction-- Tornado's,

are result of each other as Paul said.
Many vacuums are rated by water lift today. There is sealed suction, like a central vac system has, and open end suction. If a vacuum can not bypass air, it chokes it self. Allowing air to enter ahead of the vacuum chamber can improve air flow at times. Not always.
To show an example, the wider the nozzle opening, the more it can suck down to the carpet. Try it with a narrow one from a vintage cleaner, and then with a power nozzle not powered up, with the motor speed on high. The power nozzle will be harder to push.
Tornado's were French vacuums, yes? Then absorbed by AB Electrolux. I am sure they had as much power as Voltas, or Progress models of that era did.

 

[kirbysthebest]

You ain't from Kansas Is ya?

A Tornado is a large vortices which emanates from usually a thunder system in which the air movement results in the funnel touching down and causing destructions.


 


True they have suction, but it begins with air movement, Air flow.  


 


Marcus is correct, Stan is correct. 


If you look at the demonstration on youtube where they stick an Aerus Platinum on the wall.  This is sealed suction.  Air is not moving.  When the air flow, the ability to move air is what also lifts the dirt from the carpet. 


 


Because I don't have time to type it again, please refer to the reading materials provided on the previous post, with a prior thread, with the same participants, on the same subject.


 

 

[vacerator]

Harley,

No, not Kansas, but we've had them here. Actually, I meant the Brand Tornado, ,and thought we were discussing the power of it's motor.

 

[vacerator]

Paul in Bristol,

Are you on you tube as U5096?

 

[Mike81]

Airflow vs Suction

Everyone should see this. This is why I don't like the bagless vacuums.

 

[vacerator]

bagged vs. bagless

Mike, I had a large dog and wanted a machine that I could empty after each use so the hair and dander didn't grow bacteria and stink.
I bought an Electrolux Cyclone Power bagless cylinder re badged as a Sears Kenmore back in 2002. It had a Eureka Express type power head. The Eureka equivalent was called the Whirlwind.
I used it a week, every day because of the shedding. Once the bacteria manifested in the filters, it stunk, so I returned it.
I ended up with a bagged Z5900 series Smartvac, branded Oxygen here. Spraying Lysol on the hepa filter kept the odor in check.

 

[Mike81]

bagged vs. bagless

Yeah I totally understand why you returned the Electrolux Cyclone Power bagless.
I have owned the Electrolux UltraOne (bagged) and UltraPerformer/Active (bagless).
Difference is that UltraOne with its simple airpath is much more powerfull and quieter also.

 

[sebo_fan]

"I had a large dog and wanted a machine that I could empty after each use so the hair and dander didn't grow bacteria and stink."

I have been down this route so many times with second hand bagged and bagless uprights. In the end I realised it wasn't the filters at fault but the hoses and dust channels that get clogged with oily pet hair deposits. Once those areas are cleaned out the older HEPA filters I kept over worked again.

Its not the filter or brand that can often be at fault but the simplest of things such as the hoses and dust channel air ways that require a good grouting out!

 

[vacerator]

I agree guy's,

but who has time to clean out hoses and wands?

 

[sensotronic]

U5096

Paul, or Marcus as he is sometimes called, is not on Youtube. U5096 is a Policeman called Ryan.

I think that ibasiac bloke is called Roger. I met him once and he seemed really stuck up, but he loves his vacuums.

 

[sebo4me]

I like your Sebos photo Roger but where is your G1?

 

[sebo_fan]

You only need to clean out hoses and wands periodically, Vacerator. These things take time to build up again. Of course if a manufacturer could come up with a seamlessly smooth interior it wouldn't take half as long to clean every coil. When I think about it, neither my Miele or SEBO hoses need to recoil, but I understand some ribs are required to protect the exterior of the hose and ribbed ones are probably cheaper to manufacture by now.

 

[sensotronic]

That's an old photo Mar...Paul.

 

[sebo4me]

Oh it's time you updated it then

 

[sensotronic]

You should update your photo to show the real you.

 

[vacerator]

photo updates;

If I were 35, I would also. Not that I look bad for 56.
But I know what Tony Danza looks like now, so no.

 

[kenkart]

My two cents

When the Dysons first got popular, Jimmy Martin brought one to my house, I then had plush carpet, he vacuumed and vacuumed and got up a small amount of dust and dog hair, I hooked up my E series Rainbow and made 2 passes behind the Dyson and got up all sorts of sand grit and hair, My opinion then as now is that all the suction in the world is useless if not effectively applied, A Dyson to me is a tinkertoy with a big motor in it, I will keep on using my good vintage machines.A Hoover 150 or 63 will clean rings around one, with much less effort.

 

[Mike81]

If someone posted this video already I apologise.
But this is how to test vacuums fairly.
This is not typical "who vacuums last wins".
He vacuumed with the first vacuum multiple passes and emptied it.
Then he vacuumed again with the same vacuum and only got tiny amount of stuff.
Then he vacuumed with the second vacuum and got a lot more stuff from the carpet.


http://https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=DK-7X3oSVoA

 

[parwaz786]

Seriously they just HAD to use that puny little Dyson DC50 when comparing it to a full sized machine? Not a fair comparison.

 

[Mike81]

I was going to mention about it, but that's what I was also thinking. Dyson Cinetic Big Ball would have been better choice. My comment was about the testing methods.

 

[parwaz786]

Yes I totally agree

 

[sptyks]

Here is an interesting test...

that was done several years ago. It may be somewhat out dated, but I think all the tests are still valid today. All of the tests were done with a Dyson DC14 and a Kirby G5, but I believe that if they were all repeated today between a Dyson DC65 or Cinetic and a Kirby Avalir, the results would be the same. There is a lot of reading here, but it is very interesting reading.


 


http://www.greatvacs.com/education/KirbyVsDysonVacuumReview.html

 

[Mike81]

airflow

I knew that Kirby would have more airflow than Dyson, but so much! And top of all that with the hose!

Dyson = 1 out of 10
Kirby = 7 out of 10

 

[kenkart]

Re airflow

Just about any machine with a open fan design will have superior airflow, but not as much sealed suction, but really, its airflow that picks up dirt.Thats why the Apex StratoCleaner and Dual Delux Sunbeam clean so well, just one big fan.

 

[vacerator]

air flow vs suction cont.,

Air flow is like wind. Suction is more like inside of a vacuum. One can move dirt well. The other can suck it out from deep crevices, and fibers.
Filter Queen demonstrators put a sofa cushion in a sealed plastic bag and attach the hose to show how string suction can flatten the cushion.
Rainbow demonstrators use a white cloth between the upholstery tool and the hose to show how it can suck deep down carpet soil out.
So a power brush combined with a cylinder is the best, or an upright with also sealed suction.

 

[sptyks]

When cleaning carpets and rugs, a strong "direct air" machine such as a Kirby or Royal is unbeatable for removing the most dirt. Sealed suction is almost useless when removing dirt from a carpet. Remember "You have to move the air in order to move the dirt."

 

[parwaz786]

Vacuums can suck through carpets and here's proof airflow is needed to clean:

Put something in your hand, like a marble.

Grab a powerful Dyson for example. Take the hose off the powerful Dyson and put it on your hand with the marble on aswell. Now switch the Dyson on for a few secs then turn it off. The marble is still there. Why? Well even though there is powerful suction, there's no airflow so it's like a vacuum. If there was a slight gap between the hand and he hose there would be airflow for the marble to get sucked in. Carpets are porous and so a powerful vacuum can do well especially with a powerful brushroll