I really like the new Dyson's

[panasonicvac]

I agree with you. One thing that Sebo has which Dyson definitely doesn't offer are central vac power nozzles. And if you combine it with a powerful power unit say DrainVac for example, it would out clean any Dyson that's out there.

 

[tolivac]

I have the Sebo powernozzle and wand set for central vacuums-all my central vacuums use bags-MUCH better than ANY Dyson and cleaner,easier to empty!!!!Sort of funny Sebo didn't make central vacuums!

 

[blakaeg]

Each to their own. I want quality and that is where I would go for a SEBO Felix, not a fragile Dyson.

I completely disagree about your comment on the handle being fragile on the Felix, it is not fragile at all. Stand on a Felix and then on the Dyson and see which one will crack first!! It would not be the SEBO that's for certain.

SEBO Germany is a separate company from the UK business and it is SEBO Germany that needs to diversify its product portfolio to include a cordless line up, but they should not change the existing type of machines as these work just fine. Regarding the brush shut off - why don't you ask Dyson why they don't allow the customer to shut off the brush on their entire cordless lineup?? Not every model comes with a Fluffy head, so surely, Dyson should allow the user to switch off the brush, the carbon fibre brush strip could just be a static design to help pick up on hard floors.

Dysons are just like Iphones, not built to stand and the company has built in obsolescence in all of their machines. They stop providing spare parts and support. Look on their website to see all the models that are not even that old that one cannot even get a part for - forcing them to 'upgrade' to Dysons latest model. Its all about upgrading to the 'latest technology' with Dyson.

SEBO still support machines that are 30 years old.

 

[oliveoiltinfoil]

@blakaeg

The comparison with Apple is a poor one. Apple are known for supporting their products the longest out of Samsung and others. What phone manufacturer is better or historically has been? Even the old Nokia's didn't last nay longer than the newest Apple products, and phones in the early 2000’s were seldom used compared to today where people can’t put the things down for 5 minutes.

Apple's get nearly as much revenue now form service subscription then device hardware sales, so its actually in their interest their products last and are supporter for as long as possible. They encourage the atfersale of devices, and Apple products hold their value the best among smartphones, by quite a long way.

Also, you can still buy some DC01 parts from the Dyson website. That is product support.

The Felix handle; I have had a Felix since 2013, and the handle is poor not just in its loop-less design and fragile switch, but the mechanism is only held in with a plastic tab. No one is going to stand on the handle are they; that's total nonsense. Mine has become very loose over the years and they aren't easily replaced.

Its very clear that Sebo make a good vacuum for people who like vacuuming and spend time out fo their days doing so, but my original point was more tiers mass-market attraction and how people these days want to do more spot cleaning, and want something light-weight that's easy and convenient. If they trade some negligible power for it, they will do it.

You guys can carry on defending Sebo, like Blackberry fans defended that brand until they went into the babies. Its okay to/beneficial to critique a brand of its shortfalls sot hey can be addressed. Its not down to the consumer to do the promotion and bidding for these companies.

Ive spent a long time detesting Dyson and thinking their products were overpriced poorly made products, but I never actually properly owned and used one day to day. Either their products have massively improved in a short period of time, or it was the heard mentality of someone online saying "my friend had a Dyson and it was bad, don't get one".

 

[beagledad]

Dyson is better at marketing than building vacuums. They don't have to build a quality product. They just have to convince the masses they need the newest gimmick. And Dyson does that very well. They release new models every year or so and everyone runs out and buys it. I still have an iPhone 8. I'm not susceptible to the latest and greatest mind games that so many fall prey to. I have a Miele Marin and MD central vacuum. The Dyson is no match for either in terms of performance and longevity. The central vac will live for 30-40 years. Dyson will have produced millions of disposable products clogging up the landfills in that amount of time. Not to mention those toxic batteries. Dyson is not an eco-friendly product at all.

 

[turbo500]

I recently got to try a friends Small Ball 2 Allergy and was impressed by the performance, ease of use and how quiet the machine was. It did feel flimsy compared with my Miele and Sebo at home and also against the Shark uprights but it did clean well and for £199, I thought it was good value.

I'm really not a fan of cordless vacuums, especially not as a replacement for a mains powered cleaner. Dyson cordless in particular are insanely expensive - in some cases almost double the price of a Sebo. Whilst I'm sure the performance is acceptable, I would strongly object to paying that amount of money for something that has an inevitably short lifespan. Dyson can improve the design all they like, but the cold hard fact is that batteries deteriorate and will never be able to lost as long as a well maintained, corded cleaner. Even by Dyson standards, when you consider there are still people using DCO1's and DC04's from 20+ years ago, their cordless machines will never be able to live up to that lifespan. So I think they're a complete rip off.

 

[compuvac]

I've heard a lot of people say that dysons destroy carpet which is probably why the CRI doesn't certify them. They don't certify Shark either.


@beagledad That's very true.

It applies to other things as well. People pay ridiculous prices because they're brainwashed into liking it.

https://carpet-rug.org/testing/seal-of-approval-program/certified-vacuums/

 

[huskyvacs]

compuvac

Dysons do destroy carpet. They have no agitation or beater bars so they make the brushrolls super stiff to compensate for that fact. Go rub your hand on some of their brushrolls, its like sandpaper.

So you have rock hard bristles, rotating at extremely high RPM, being mashed into your carpeting. Elementary school science lesson. What does this generate? Friction! What does friction generate? Heat! Combine heat plus thin nylon fibers.......? Yep, you got it, bye bye carpet. Each time you go over a carpet with a Dyson it's like you're giving your carpet a hot peel wax. Stripping layers off the carpet each time.

If you do a lot of carpet cleaning in rental homes, you can always tell which people used a Dyson - the carpet looks like an entire football team did practice on it.

Ironically the Amway Cleartrak, which copied from Dyson, does not harm carpet and does a better cleaning job than Dyson. Go figure.


https://insightfulnana.com/home-garden/housekeeping-home-garden/dyson-the-carpet-mucher/html

 

[oliveoiltinfoil]

@huskyvacs

Listen to what you just said;

"dysons destroy carpets"

Nearly 13 million homes in the UK have a Dyson. If they destroyed carpets, why haven't we heard of any lawsuits of carpets ruined due to people using them?

Would they continue to have repeat business purely because of how they market their products? No. The brand has been going for 30 years now and like it or not, they generally have and always have had a very good reputation and more or less have a cult following. Impressive for a vacuum brand really.

We are lucky enough to live in a free-market economy. Good products sell. Bad products don't. Its really as simple as that.

Your truths are totally subjective and are more based on your opinions, unless you can convince me that those 13 million Brits have it completely wrong.

US customers? Dyson overtook Hoover in 2005 and for nearly 16 years, they have had the largest marketshare of any vacuum brand in the US. For 16 years.

With all of this, would they continue to have this success if their products were so dreadfully fragile and poor performing, or do they actually address market demands?


Genuine questions here.

 

[panasonicvac]

@compuvac, actually there was a time when Shark made it to CRI's certified list. They're not on there anymore since those models have since been discontinued. Haven't seen anymore of them since then. It's possible that Shark just no longer wanted to pay to send their models over to the CRI since it is a voluntary program. Not like Consumer Reports where they would buy all of the products to review.

@oliveoiltinfoil, I do agree with huskyvacs here. Both of the Dysons that I had in my house before picked up more fiber than picking up dust off of my carpets. And there are carpet brands here in the US that would void the carpet warranty if you use a Dyson on them. Just because Dyson has high reputations doesn't really mean that they're one of the best out there. And I've used alot of Dysons, they've never impressed me. Personally, I'd rather have something that no one else in my neighborhood would have. Something where they would spend all of their money on the product and not half on advertising like Dyson. And something where you'd basically get what you pay for. Also, I wouldn't be surprised if Shark outsells Dyson in the US for the next coming years. Dyson is no longer developing their corded models which in my opinion is a business mistake. And Dyson doesn't even support their oldest model here anymore.

 

[huskyvacs]

oliveoiltinfoil

Sorry I'm not a brand loyalist for stuff that is all money and no function so I won't get into your narrow minded bait argument because you have nothing better to do with your time other than to try and fail to convince people that Dyson and iPhones are superior. Just stating the facts. Take it or leave it. This is not Facebook - I don't have to prove anything to you.

 

[n0oxy]

Dyson's popularity

I think many people here in the United States have not heard of brands such as Sebo or Miele. When I have mentioned Sebo to friends and family, not a single person had ever heard of them, but everyone has heard of Dyson. I think one reason that Dyson and Shark sell so well is that many people don't know there are other choices. I also think that Dyson stopping development of corded vacuums is a big mistake. A cordless vacuum is not and may never be as powerful as a corded cleaner, and whenever you use a cordless cleaner you are on a time constraint to complete the cleaning job before the battery dies.
Mike

 

[turbo500]

@huskyvacs I can sum up this thread in one sentence….”I used to dislike Dyson’s but now I don’t and I’m going to argue with anyone who says I’m wrong, even though I think I was wrong before when I disliked them”

Sound familiar?

For me, Dyson have never quite got it right. I like the sturdier models like the DC04 and DC14 as they feel quite robust, but the performance never seemed up to much on those earlier models. From the DC40 onwards, I liked the performance but the build quality seemed to decline. As for the cordless models, I find them way too over priced for a product that has an inevitability short lifespan. Batteries will always decline.

 

[matt8808]

Without taking sides because I know both brands have their strong points and weaknesses -

I've had more Sebo machines that I've owned from new develop faults and need warranty work than I have Dyson vacuums recently. All mechanical issues relating to the drive belt system with cogs and bearing blocks failing etc.

There are also a few members in one of the UK Facebook groups having quality issues with Sebo machines & multiple warranty repairs on major internal components - so they aren't as bullet proof and fail safe as some of you make out. Especially the newer machines where quality has been cut to some degree.

I'm not bashing Sebo. I agree an X7 would likely stand up to abuse better than a Dyson.

However our house is currently a Dyson house.

We have (all UK models) an upright Ball Animal 2, a cylinder Big Ball Multifloor 2 and a V15 Detect Absolute.

The V15 is the most used machine with the two corded models rarely being used now.

The latest cordless really does perform as well as a mains powered machine. And that includes the likes of Sebo IMHO. It is also much more convenient to use and much more versatile.

Yes the cordless machines are very expensive and will have a limited lifespan..... but the cost isn't really an issue to some people.

In terms of battery lifespan overall, a lot of people (normal consumers) buy the cordless Dyson machines and run them on the MAX setting constantly, something which Dyson now advise against and something which puts a lot of stress on the battery and degrades it much faster. I have a friend who bought a bottom of the range V6 years ago (at least 5 years), uses it daily as her main vacuum and has so far suffered no battery issues. So if looked after and used correctly they can last a couple of years. By which point most people are happy to upgrade to the latest model. The V15 is lightyears ahead of her V6 in terms of performance and I know should her V6 die she'd be over the moon with the upgrade in performance of a new Dyson cordless.

You can't really compare the two brands I don't feel. Both have some very good strong points and some very strong weaknesses.

 

[oliveoiltinfoil]

@turbo500

To be honest, I could just as easily switch is round and say "anyone who likes Dyson ro gives them credit, I will bash them"

We are all going to say what we can to fit our agenda. People generally choose what they read and listen to.

I have made it apparent several times now, without sounding like a broken record, that I like Sebo, have used them pretty much my entire life and continue to do so. My entire point regarding this thread if you bothered to read any of it was;

- Dyson's are no where near as bad as some on here would claim
- They do seem to have improved a lot in recent years
- its okay to be critical of companies which have had somewhat of a loyal following. Brand loyalty exists with many people, and that's okay


@ matt8808

Pretty much agree with everything here. A local cleaning supply company who's MD Im friendly with, told me of these similar experiences, since with the X7. It steams from poor quality control rather than design choices made, but either way, Sebo do seem incredibly slow to adapt and fix issues like this, maybe because of their loyal following, but the mass market wouldn't put up with some of these issues that are apparent these days.

Biggest issue Dyson face are current battery limitations, which hamper their reliability record. The machines themselves are pretty bulletproof.

Probably explains why all Dyson cordless machines now have user-swappable batteries. Something they should have implemented from the start really, but progress is progress.

 

[turbo500]

But I’m not bashing anyone who likes Dyson? Infact I’ve already said, I quite like the latest mains powered model. So that doesn’t really work, does it?

You’ve basically admitted that you didn’t like Dyson, but now you do, and have jumped down the throats of anybody who disagrees with you, even though you didn’t like them before and had valid reasons not to like them. Which begs the question, do you want to actually have a discussion about this or do you just expect everybody to suddenly start feeling the same way as you do, even though you have admittedly changed your mind quite recently?

I completely agree that no product or company, however brand loyal one may be, should not escape criticism. Sebo still make excellent machines but their latest batches have had issues. A friend who works for a Euronics shop sent me a photo of the red exclusive model and the whole batch had wonky lettering and lettering missing on the cleaner head. We all love our vintage Hoover and Electrolux machines but it doesn’t mean every model both companies ever made were good.

I also agree that Dyson have improved. I always like the DC04 but felt that Dyson sort of lost it after that, especially with the ball ranges. The first one I really thought was a good cleaner for years was the DC40, it seems Dyson have taken all the good points of that model and improved upon it for the current Small Ball upright. I’d gladly have one of those as a daily driver.

 

[oliveoiltinfoil]

Lovely stuff

 

[thevacuumbarn]

Some interesting points made Geer: just wanted to add a few:

I have used both Dyson and Sebo machines mnumerous times in the past, and I own a Dyson DC07 currently among other machines. This being said, I can testify to the reliability of Sebo Machines here in the US.
First off, their hoses are as tough as nails! They had Sebo Machines for the students to use at the dorm where I went to college, and one time somebody jammed the hose into the wand incorrectly, and got it stuck so badly that the only way to pull it out was to use brute strength, and the hose didn’t tear or rip at all. If someone had done that to a Dyson or Shark, I have no doubt that there would’ve been a rip or tear in the hose. In fact, the hose on my DC07 has a tear in it, and has had since before I got it nine years back.

Also something to note, the Sebo Machines at the college outlasted any of the bagless machines they had previously. Before they got the Sebos, they had three bagless machines: a Shark, a Hoover, and a Bissell Powerforce. I used all three interchangeably when they had them, and from what I remember, the Bissell had brush roll issues from the very beginning, and half the time the shark would come to me with clogged filters and I would have to clean them and or pull hair out of the brush roll which was always badly tangled before I even got to use it. They had these bagless machines for 1 1/2 years with the exception of the Hoover, which they got shortly before they replaced them with the Sebo machines, and as far as I know they’re still using the Sebos. I only once saw one of the Sebos get clogged, and that was because somebody sucked up a large object that had no business being in the machine; even then, a quick reversal of the hose fixed it. Other than that and the hose jamming incident mentioned above, I had no problems with them in the two years that I lived there and would check them out from the front desk; of course, every now and then I would have to remind the desk staff to change the bag. Chuckle
Also, one of you mentioned that on their uprights, the hoses are too short for stair cleaning. With this, I would have to agree, but they did do something to remedy this. If you look on the Sebo website, there is an optional extension hose available to add some length to the existing hose. I think it said it was 9 feet long, last I checked.
One other thing: someone also mentioned a noticeable loss of suction as the bag fills. Are you using paper bags, or HEPA bags? The HEPA bags should help remedy that issue.
Also something to note, Dyson’s are extremely difficult to work on, especially some of their cleaner heads. Sebo machines are meant to be serviced, and some operations, like replacing a brush roll don’t require tools and are easy to do. Therefore, if you do run into problems with a bearing block, or something of that nature, you should be able to replace it fairly easily, as they make parts available online and through dealers.
Bottom line? If I had to choose one vacuum cleaner, I would rather have a Sebo than a Dyson, as they are more reliable, easier to maintain, and easier to service. Someday, I hope to get either a Sebo Félix, or one of their canisters.

 

[zinda]

Sharks engineering is far superior K.I.S.S. keep it simple s

Have you tried an older model Shark? After using Shark and repairing/building them for years I can tell you that they stand far apart from other bagless, vacuuming circles around Dyson and they use hoses that are 3 times the area of dysons wands. I have put every vacuum through my own torture test which includes using them as my shop vac in my garage. The big test is the crack between the concrete slab test. All kinds of stuff gets caught down in the crack. It's 13 feet long and about 3/4" wide. Now a good vacuum like a shark, I can simply aim the hose over the top of the crack and suck out 90% or the debris (screws, wires, nuts, plastic pieces, various parts of vacuums and springs etc..) the only time it can't get it out is when it's packed in tightly fir that I use a scre driver to pop it up and suck it away. Dysons tube is too small to get 60% of the stuff, when I flip it out with a screwdriver the Dyson will clogg easy, if there's a moment where a constant supply of debris enters the wand the suction in the larger part of the hose diminishes and it clogs up. I can do about 2 feet and dysons done. The next contender was a Eureka, it put the Dyson to shame, it too uses hoses 3 times larger than dysons wand and it too is able to go all the way across without clogging. The eureka however is not good with fluffy items and it jams up at the entrance of the canister.

I can change out a motor in both the top and bottom in 2 hours on a shark. In 2 hours I'll have the bottom off the Dyson and I'll be questioning if I really need to go any further since I know it's going to take 2 days to get a Dyson motor out. Who did the better job of engineering¿ Why overly complicate such a simple machine like this. I only sell dysons to suckers who desperately want them, I always offer a shark first since I want them to be happy!

The DC17 was dysons pinnacle of design, it worked ok, it had much less clogging and was easier to work on if you call a 2 hour belt change easy. 5 minutes on a shark. Dyson also has reset switches on his brushroll motors which are 120vDC when he could use (as I do to replace his) AC motors and remove the circuitry in the bottom plate. AC motors are way cheap and seem to run forever. Many problems with dysons DC motors, $60 each to replace but he won't stock them so then what?

One more word of caution, he says he has a filter that never needs cleaning or replacement? He lied, he sells those filters for $70 now if they never need to be replaced why is he selling them? When you hear a high pitched screaming noise, that's your clogged up exhaust filter that's made to last 3 years. Oh and don't you dare vacuum up any drywall dust, fine dirt or dust either since he specified not to do that. So what good is it? Oh one more thing don't let sun light hit the body or the plastic will crumble! Nice engineering!

 

[thevacuumbarn]

True, the older model sharks like the NV-355 were easier to take apart than most Dysons, but the Dysons actually have multiple cyclones in them, where the Sharks only have one, and it’s upside down, making the air flow path even more inefficient. I helped a friend move, and they had an older Shark; I used it to vacuum pretty much the whole house, and one of the biggest issues was that the intake screen inside the cyclone kept clogging up with hair and debris, causing the machine to constantly lose power. Also, the bin on that thing was extremely tiny, especially considering the size of the canister that detached from the powerhead. A lot of the Dysons have larger bins, especially some of the older models. Something else to note, The older Dysons actually had pretty wide tubing, so clogs weren’t as much of an issue on, for example, the DC07 as they are with some of the newer ball models. Also, last I checked, Dyson still makes more parts available than Shark ever did.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not really a fan of either brand, and would much rather have a bagged vacuum cleaner any day of the week. However, if I had to choose between the two, I would choose an older Dyson because they have better airflow, larger motors, and more parts available than any of the Sharks.