Dyson engineering ineptitude and complacency

[vacerator]

last posted video, Kirby's etc.

did not upload properly.
Paul, a Kirby will not have as much suction or airflow as a Dyson.
Remember, A Kirby has a soft bag. No closed suction chamber.
A Dyson is essentially a sealed cylinder type cleaner turned upright.
Now, to the person who was critical of us having a little fairy dust fun:
Don't be like Ferris Beuhler's principal with a chunk of coal you know where, that might exit as a diamond.

 

[vacerator]

Kirby video,

So why didn't he dump the flour and soda back on the carpet and use the Kirby?

 

[sptyks]

Vacerator:

Why would you want to dump the contents of the Dyson back on the floor? That would defeat the purpose of the Dirtmeter test. Are you not familiar with how a Dirtmeter works?


 


 

 

[sptyks]

Vacerator:

It is a known fact that a Kirby has way more Airflow than a dyson. The Kirby relies on Agitation and Airflow not suction to clean carpets. The rotating brushroll Agitates the carpet as the tremendous airflow moves it into the bag.

 

[sebo4me]

Suction and airflow are 2 sides of the same coin. Without suction there's no airflow.
Doesn't matter if it's a direct air motor or clean air motor they both work on the same principle.
They create a drop in ambient pressure.

 

[sptyks]

Marcus:

You must have been asleep in your high school Physics classes. Suction and airflow ARE NOT the same thing! If they are the same, then why is each one measured differently?


Suction is measured in inches of water lift, whereas Airflow is measured in CFM (Cubic feet per minute. You would never hear of a cylinder vacuum suction measured in CFM. Its always measured in inches of water lift.


 


Sure there is a small amount of suction present in a Kirby floor head as the motor starts up, but when it's up to full speed it's all Airflow baby!


 





 





 

 

[parwaz786]

That hoover has a blocked filter

Trust me, I noticed this with my DC14 when I vacuumed up plaster dust, the suction was almost killed but the motor is powerful so was sucking hardcore through the filter, it wil sound loud but not enough for the air relief valve to blow. Some people think it still has suction but it doesn't.

I bought a DC33 Animal the other week, the guy said it still sucked but didn't pick up anything. The filter was blocked and the hose had crap suction, but still enough for the average person to think it still sucks

 

[sebo4me]

I didn't say they were the same thing.
I said both motors create a drop in the ambient pressure which causes airflow.

 

[sebo4me]

This pressure drop behind the fan is just like the pressure drop in a straw when you sip from your drink. The pressure level in the area behind the fan drops below the pressure level outside the vacuum cleaner (the ambient air pressure). This creates suction, a partial vacuum, inside the vacuum cleaner. The ambient air pushes itself into the vacuum cleaner through the intake port because the air pressure inside the vacuum cleaner is lower than the pressure outside.

 

[sebo4me]

Understand now Stanley?

 

[sptyks]

The fact is...

You can have a thousand inches of water lift, but if the diameter of the hose is too small like it is on all bagless vacuums, you will have much less air flowing through the vacuum which results in decreased ability to thoroughly clean plush carpets.

 

[kirbysthebest]

This battle has been fought

Yes suction and air flow are linked, but as one increases the other decreases. A dead air flow, strong suction. High air flow, low suction. Linked. Optimized. 





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Suction vs Airflow


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Harley is absolutely correct when he explains the concept of Suction vs Airflow!


 


Here's another way to look at it: A Tornado is a whirl of wind. There is almost no suction involved, but a Tornado can pickup a house and carry it 100 yards with very little or no


suction.


 


Take a look at your average Dyson. There's lots of suction as measured in inches of water, but take out your Baird Meter and measure the Airflow and you'll find there's very little.


 


Now look at your Kirby or metal Royal and you'll see these numbers are reversed. There's very little suction, but the Baird meter is nearly pegged at "10". Now as the brushroll, spinning at 3900 RPM, brings the dirt to the surface of the carpet, all that Airflow picks up the dirt (just like a tornado) and carries it through the fancase and into the bag. And that's why Airflow is more important than suction.


 


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Can we get back to Fairy wings now?



http://www.vacuumland.org/cgi-bin/TD/TD-VIEWTHREAD.cgi?28347

 

[sebo4me]

Tornados actually create a lot of suction. You shouldn't believe everything a sew n vac salesman tells you Stan.

The first thing that allows tornados to lift trucks, is that tornadoes generate a serious amount of updraft suction in their cores. This helps to pick things up and get things moving

 

[vacerator]

airflow/suction-- Tornado's,

are result of each other as Paul said.
Many vacuums are rated by water lift today. There is sealed suction, like a central vac system has, and open end suction. If a vacuum can not bypass air, it chokes it self. Allowing air to enter ahead of the vacuum chamber can improve air flow at times. Not always.
To show an example, the wider the nozzle opening, the more it can suck down to the carpet. Try it with a narrow one from a vintage cleaner, and then with a power nozzle not powered up, with the motor speed on high. The power nozzle will be harder to push.
Tornado's were French vacuums, yes? Then absorbed by AB Electrolux. I am sure they had as much power as Voltas, or Progress models of that era did.

 

[kirbysthebest]

You ain't from Kansas Is ya?

A Tornado is a large vortices which emanates from usually a thunder system in which the air movement results in the funnel touching down and causing destructions.


 


True they have suction, but it begins with air movement, Air flow.  


 


Marcus is correct, Stan is correct. 


If you look at the demonstration on youtube where they stick an Aerus Platinum on the wall.  This is sealed suction.  Air is not moving.  When the air flow, the ability to move air is what also lifts the dirt from the carpet. 


 


Because I don't have time to type it again, please refer to the reading materials provided on the previous post, with a prior thread, with the same participants, on the same subject.


 

 

[vacerator]

Harley,

No, not Kansas, but we've had them here. Actually, I meant the Brand Tornado, ,and thought we were discussing the power of it's motor.

 

[vacerator]

Paul in Bristol,

Are you on you tube as U5096?

 

[Mike81]

Airflow vs Suction

Everyone should see this. This is why I don't like the bagless vacuums.

 

[vacerator]

bagged vs. bagless

Mike, I had a large dog and wanted a machine that I could empty after each use so the hair and dander didn't grow bacteria and stink.
I bought an Electrolux Cyclone Power bagless cylinder re badged as a Sears Kenmore back in 2002. It had a Eureka Express type power head. The Eureka equivalent was called the Whirlwind.
I used it a week, every day because of the shedding. Once the bacteria manifested in the filters, it stunk, so I returned it.
I ended up with a bagged Z5900 series Smartvac, branded Oxygen here. Spraying Lysol on the hepa filter kept the odor in check.

 

[Mike81]

bagged vs. bagless

Yeah I totally understand why you returned the Electrolux Cyclone Power bagless.
I have owned the Electrolux UltraOne (bagged) and UltraPerformer/Active (bagless).
Difference is that UltraOne with its simple airpath is much more powerfull and quieter also.