Direct air power nozzle
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crazykirbydude
Well-known member
What about the Riccar Volt? I think that will bring even more power to machines like the Electrolux Model 30!
kirbyvertibles
Well-known member
The problem with some is that the power nozzle has to much airflow and the canister motor struggles to keep up. This is the case for Airway. I have the Don Clark/ Airway configuration and when using them together it chokes off but if I turn off the canister then the power nozzle grabs the carpet better.
Hans, Did Regina only do this to their top models? I'm asking because I have a Regina Brush N Beat canister and power nozzle but my power nozzle is not tandem air.
Hans, Did Regina only do this to their top models? I'm asking because I have a Regina Brush N Beat canister and power nozzle but my power nozzle is not tandem air.
volt nozzle
Yes, Tacony has done it successfully. The volt nozzle is not only a power nozzle, but it has the dirty air design. It will actually pick up debris from the carpet with no vacuum attached to it. Of course, this is not very productive, but it does demonstrate the power the nozzle has. Combine that with a central vacuum or canister vacuum and the results are very good. I think they're coming out with a tandom air nozzle for the Prima canister as well. I wish they would upgrade their universal fit all central vacuum nozzle to this design too.
Yes, Tacony has done it successfully. The volt nozzle is not only a power nozzle, but it has the dirty air design. It will actually pick up debris from the carpet with no vacuum attached to it. Of course, this is not very productive, but it does demonstrate the power the nozzle has. Combine that with a central vacuum or canister vacuum and the results are very good. I think they're coming out with a tandom air nozzle for the Prima canister as well. I wish they would upgrade their universal fit all central vacuum nozzle to this design too.
ralph123
Well-known member
I'm not as bullish on the Tandem design. I like the bypass design or direct air design but not both combined in the same machine. I don't want the disadvantages of both. They just need to work on optimizing the nozzle. If Miele uprights can get a top score in carpet cleaning tests (Consumer Reports) with a bypass design, so can Riccar/Simplicity. The nozzle design has got to be better. Needs less dead space.
disadvantages
What do you think are the disadvantages of each system? For the dirty air design, it does not work as well with attachments, but with a power nozzle, that's a nonissue. The main disadvantage I can see with the clean air design is that you need good filtration in order to prevent dust from getting in to the motor, but that's the case regardless of whether you use a tandom nozzle. I think one appeal of the volt nozzle is that it can give good carpet cleaning abilities to a vacuum that otherwise does not have it, such as a straight suction canister or central vacuum with nonelectric hose.
What do you think are the disadvantages of each system? For the dirty air design, it does not work as well with attachments, but with a power nozzle, that's a nonissue. The main disadvantage I can see with the clean air design is that you need good filtration in order to prevent dust from getting in to the motor, but that's the case regardless of whether you use a tandom nozzle. I think one appeal of the volt nozzle is that it can give good carpet cleaning abilities to a vacuum that otherwise does not have it, such as a straight suction canister or central vacuum with nonelectric hose.
kirbysthebest
Well-known member
Tortoise and the Hare.
kirbysthebest
Well-known member
Tortise would be the Kirby. In in for the long haul. Will be there 20, 30, 50 years down the line.
Shark=Hare. Short burst of speed, won't usually see the next fiscal year. Definitely won't be here in five years.
Shark=Hare. Short burst of speed, won't usually see the next fiscal year. Definitely won't be here in five years.
Haha true. But I keep hearing how much deeper a direct air motor will clean carpets but is that exaggerated?
The Kirby will last decades which is a big plus but I was always led to believe they cleaned a lot deeper than a clean air machine.
The Kirby will last decades which is a big plus but I was always led to believe they cleaned a lot deeper than a clean air machine.
kirbylux77
Well-known member
Not so fast on the tandem air power nozzle parade here, guys. There are some advantages to adding a tandem air power nozzle to a canister to increase airflow & cleaning power, for sure, no denying that. But, there are also some disadvantages Tacony is going to have to address with the Riccar Prima & Simplicity Wonder canisters & the tandem air power nozzle, & find solutions for them.
For starters, one BIG problem they are going to have to overcome is the bag material used to make the HEPA Cloth bags, & the bag chamber design. What Phillip - Kirbyvertibles says above about the Air Way tandem air canister design is true....the canister could not keep up with the tandem air power nozzle. Even Tom Gasko has said this was a issue with them. Why? Because they used paper bags that the pores of the bag clogged quickly even before the tandem air power nozzle was added, choking off airflow in the canister, & adding the airflow the fan from the tandem air power nozzle would add would exacerbate the problem even more. The only way to solve this problem would be to use a HEPA Cloth bag that doesn't clog easily. The problem here, unfortunately, is that Tacony's HEPA Cloth canister bags for all their canisters are only 3 ply HEPA Cloth bags, just like everyone else except Miele uses. It's been my experience, unfortunately, that the Tacony HEPA Cloth bags do clog fairly quickly, at about 1/3 full. The only HEPA Cloth bags I have found for canister vacuums that maintain their airflow well are the Miele Airclean bags, those bags you can fill up to 3/4 full until you start to see any loss in airflow, since they are 9 ply HEPA Cloth bags. So, in order to optimize airflow the canister produces, Tacony will have to copy the Miele Airclean bag design & make a 9 ply HEPA Cloth bag, as well as redesign the bag chamber to accommodate it. Since Miele just came out with that bag design only a few years ago, they will have to wait a long time before they can do that though.
The other problem with the tandem air power nozzle is it eliminates one classic canister power nozzle design: the funnel shaped brushroll chamber. The reason why canisters clean better than uprights, in most cases, is twofold: 1. Canisters produce more suction & airflow to pull in more dirt, more quickly. 2. The funnel shaped brushroll chamber in a canister power nozzle replicates the functionality of a bell shaped upright vacuum power nozzle housing, like the Kirby & Royal designs, & most of the old direct air uprights from the 1930's & 1940's, like General Electric. The funnel shaped brushroll chamber design in a canister power nozzle & bell shaped upright vacuum power nozzle design ensures airflow is evenly spread throughout the entire powerhead, meaning as the brushroll loosens the dirt from the carpet pile it gets carried away evenly by the airflow into the vacuum. With the tandem air power nozzle design, it's designed just like a lightweight direct air upright design: fan producing suction & airflow on one side, belt on the other side. This means that airflow isn't even throughout the tandem air power nozzle like it would be in a traditional canister power nozzle design. What I would like Tacony see doing with the tandem air power nozzle design is to incorporate the Hoover Windtunnel brushroll chamber design into the tandem air power nozzle's design. This would overcome the uneven airflow effect & ensure even airflow inside the tandem air power nozzle & therefore ensure optimum cleaning power & dirt removal from carpets. Again, though, they are going to have to wait a few years until Hoover's patents on the Windtunnel design expires before they can copy it.
I am in favor of the tandem air power nozzle, don't get me wrong. I just think that while it is a good idea & has some merit, it could still use some further refinement & some tweaks to the tandem air power nozzle design, as well as the canister vacuum design to ensure the concept of a tandem air power nozzle added to a canister vacuum performs at it's best & doesn't disappoint the consumer that buys it to use in their home. I really do think once the bag design is improved, as well as the airflow characteristics inside the brushroll chamber of the tandem air power nozzle are improved & optimized, this will be a huge success for Tacony.
Rob
For starters, one BIG problem they are going to have to overcome is the bag material used to make the HEPA Cloth bags, & the bag chamber design. What Phillip - Kirbyvertibles says above about the Air Way tandem air canister design is true....the canister could not keep up with the tandem air power nozzle. Even Tom Gasko has said this was a issue with them. Why? Because they used paper bags that the pores of the bag clogged quickly even before the tandem air power nozzle was added, choking off airflow in the canister, & adding the airflow the fan from the tandem air power nozzle would add would exacerbate the problem even more. The only way to solve this problem would be to use a HEPA Cloth bag that doesn't clog easily. The problem here, unfortunately, is that Tacony's HEPA Cloth canister bags for all their canisters are only 3 ply HEPA Cloth bags, just like everyone else except Miele uses. It's been my experience, unfortunately, that the Tacony HEPA Cloth bags do clog fairly quickly, at about 1/3 full. The only HEPA Cloth bags I have found for canister vacuums that maintain their airflow well are the Miele Airclean bags, those bags you can fill up to 3/4 full until you start to see any loss in airflow, since they are 9 ply HEPA Cloth bags. So, in order to optimize airflow the canister produces, Tacony will have to copy the Miele Airclean bag design & make a 9 ply HEPA Cloth bag, as well as redesign the bag chamber to accommodate it. Since Miele just came out with that bag design only a few years ago, they will have to wait a long time before they can do that though.
The other problem with the tandem air power nozzle is it eliminates one classic canister power nozzle design: the funnel shaped brushroll chamber. The reason why canisters clean better than uprights, in most cases, is twofold: 1. Canisters produce more suction & airflow to pull in more dirt, more quickly. 2. The funnel shaped brushroll chamber in a canister power nozzle replicates the functionality of a bell shaped upright vacuum power nozzle housing, like the Kirby & Royal designs, & most of the old direct air uprights from the 1930's & 1940's, like General Electric. The funnel shaped brushroll chamber design in a canister power nozzle & bell shaped upright vacuum power nozzle design ensures airflow is evenly spread throughout the entire powerhead, meaning as the brushroll loosens the dirt from the carpet pile it gets carried away evenly by the airflow into the vacuum. With the tandem air power nozzle design, it's designed just like a lightweight direct air upright design: fan producing suction & airflow on one side, belt on the other side. This means that airflow isn't even throughout the tandem air power nozzle like it would be in a traditional canister power nozzle design. What I would like Tacony see doing with the tandem air power nozzle design is to incorporate the Hoover Windtunnel brushroll chamber design into the tandem air power nozzle's design. This would overcome the uneven airflow effect & ensure even airflow inside the tandem air power nozzle & therefore ensure optimum cleaning power & dirt removal from carpets. Again, though, they are going to have to wait a few years until Hoover's patents on the Windtunnel design expires before they can copy it.
I am in favor of the tandem air power nozzle, don't get me wrong. I just think that while it is a good idea & has some merit, it could still use some further refinement & some tweaks to the tandem air power nozzle design, as well as the canister vacuum design to ensure the concept of a tandem air power nozzle added to a canister vacuum performs at it's best & doesn't disappoint the consumer that buys it to use in their home. I really do think once the bag design is improved, as well as the airflow characteristics inside the brushroll chamber of the tandem air power nozzle are improved & optimized, this will be a huge success for Tacony.
Rob
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