Bagged or Bagless ?

[gmerkt]

Chalk me up as a "bag man." Unless the bagless machine has a large element-type filter (like the senior Hoover Windtunnel uprights), the bagged machine has massively greater surface filtration/breathing area.

Of course, you get what you pay for with bagged machines. The newer poly fiber bags give great filtration, greater than the paper bags but are more costly. I still prefer a paper bag to just about any bagless machine that I'm familiar with. And I must admit that doesn't include Dyson because in my refurb business, they just don't come my way.

When I have to get into the motor case of a vacuum for repairs, it's not unusual to find that area on bagless machines to be quite filthy. Way more often than bagged machines.

Many bagless machines have a combination of several filters, which is almost an admission of failure to me. Some disastrous, very cheaply-made machines (Shark/Euro Pro as an example), they even do a poor job of pretense.

The early Fantoms did not have a filter hanging on the side. Someone must've cottoned onto this oversight very quickly, as the massive filter was added not long into initial production. I have a couple of these unfiltered Fantoms and they are real dirt-blowers without it.

I think the concept of a bagless machine is heavily driven by the sales pitch, the gimmick if you will. The idea of not having to buy bags appeals to the thrifty/parsimonious; the simplicity of merely dumping out the dirt bin appeals to, well, the simple.

Mentioned in some posts above was the caveat that bagless machines work well when the filters are cleaned, etc. My experience with cast-off machines that I take in for refurb is that at least with this sort, the filters appear to rarely have been serviced or cleaned, if ever. This brings two incompatible ideas together. The customer likes the simplicity of "just dumping out the dirt bin" so how can he like cleaning filters??! I've seen way, way too many bagless machines kicked to the curb with filthy filters to accept that this is an anomoly.

With bagged machines, the bag gets full, the user has to change it. No extra work with filters is required with this regime. He changes the filter when he changes the bag.

 

[tolivac]

I would have to say--bagged vacuums are my preference,too,Kirbys,Royals,Meiles,and the Sebo Premium canister.All of these except the Royal use the filtrete bags-I wouldn't complain on these bags-because of their design-you can pack more debris in them before replacing as opposed to paper bags-even the multilayer paper bags----The only bagless vacuum I really like---Is my Rainbow E2B.When Rainbows are properly used-its HEPA exhasut filter lasts for several years.Water is cheaper than the other filters!Yes,there are some things the water trap vacs shouldn't be used on-the bagged ones work the duty there.

 

[redgeminipa]

They both have advantages and disadvantages. I like both, to an extent.

I've always been a Kirby fan. I've never had a Kirby that seemed to lose airflow until that bag was bursting at the seams.

My new favorite bagless is the Shark Navigator Lift Away. The filters are easy to clean, and airflow and suction are very, very good. I've never seen anything get past the first big foam filter that sits directly under the bin. It always looks clean on the bottom side of that filter, too.

UPS will be here today with another new one. We gave my first one to Mike's cousin, who was in desperate need of a good machine. She loves it. Her parents love it enough to buy their own, and Mike's sister wanted one, so Merry Christmas to her from us ;-)

So, after some serious deal-finding, I was able to buy one direct from Euro-Pro with their 5-year VIP warranty and bare floor nozzle, shipped to our door for $145.42. If anyone is interested, you can email me for the link to the deal. [email protected]

 

[rainbowd4c]

I actually prefer water (I have a Rainbow) or bagg. At least with bag the dust is contained when you clean out the vacuum. My mom has a bagless and you get a facefull of dust everytime you empty it unless you do what I do and just put the cup deep in the waste basket and empty it that way plus it seems with bagless your vacuums get dirty quicker and don't last as long.

 

[jmurray01]

I know what you mean about the face full of dust.

It happens to me all the time when I empty the bin of my Panasonic.

I've tried doing it outside, which makes it worse as the wind blows the dirt into your face with more force than indoors, and I've tried holding the bin low down into the bag, but some dust always manages to seep out and hit me in the nose putting me into a coughing fit!

And I'm not even asthmatic - I honestly don't know how anybody with respiratory problems could have a Bagless cleaner.

 

[danemodsandy]

Anyone....

....Who is thinking about bagless needs a time machine.

It should be set to visit Sandy's old house in Atlanta, GA on a frosty, windy early December, 1963 morning when Christmastime cleaning is going on.

You will see poor little Sandy getting instructions from his mom to empty the vacuum cleaner, which is a Compact C-2. Now, this is a bagged cleaner, but the bag is a permanent cloth one, because Sandy's mom is too, erm, thrifty to use the optional new-fangled paper ones. And since Mom relies upon the kiddies to empty the bag, it is FULL.

Little Sandy's lower lip quivers; his eyes moisten with tears - this is an awful job, and the cold windy day is going to make it much worse. But he regains control, and takes the cleaner outside. After unlatching the bag compartment, and removing the filthy cloth bag full of schmutz, he upends it over the trash can.

At exactly that moment, a howling wind erupts from nowhere, blowing approximately three quarts of dust all over Sandy.

Fast-forward to 1995. It is another house, another time, and Sandy is going through his parents' garage looking for something. The Compact has long since been sent to the dump. While searching for something entirely unrelated, Sandy opens a box to find....

....The original manual, sales order, and warranty papers for the old Compact, so carefully protected and put away in 1955, they outlasted the cleaner by many years. Sandy looks at them, and smiles, and then looks at the envelope beneath them, startled to realize:

THERE IS A SUPPLY OF INTERSTATE PAPER BAGS INSIDE! Yes - Mom had the damn things ALL. THE. TIME. and never cracked them open. Less expensive just to use the cloth bag, instead of letting the kids get used to the luxury of tossing a paper one without getting dusted from head to toe.

And THAT, sports fans, is why I will never allow a bagless cleaner in my house. Been there. Done that. Didn't need the T-shirt, because you couldn't have seen it for the dust all over me.

And that is why I am the biggest fan Electrolux self-sealing bags ever had.

 

[singingrainbow]

For me both have their ups and downs. Bagless vacs for sure do not last as long as bagged vacs. For really deep cleaning or "spring cleaning" I prefer bags or water based cleaners. But for daily cleaning I like both. I like seeing my dirt for some reason, I think it might be connected with be being young and growing up around and seeing bagless vacuums. I have several fantom vacuum tapes that I used to watch all the time, I used to think that they were the coolest things ever when I was little, but I grew up mostly with bagged canisters befor I started getting my own. Bagleses are for sure more work to maintain and dirty to empty, but I feel they have their place. But I wish companies would do more to make sure people knew there are filters on the vacuums because I have met people who did not know they had to clean a filter even if it was visiable from the outside of the cleaner.


Scott

 

[tolivac]

thats a thing on the Compact-TriStar vacuums-you can use them either way-with the paper liner bag-or without-the cloth one alone.when I use my TriStars-use the paper bags.

 

[danemodsandy]

TriStar:

I personally would not use my TriStar (a CXL) with only the cloth bag. Not only is the cloth bag fiendishly messy to empty, I don't feel it's enough filtration for the motor. Even though the motor has its own filter, you're losing a layer of filtration with just the cloth bag. One of the great things about a TriStar is vacuuming, and having the room stay clean longer, because of the quadruple filtration - cloth bag, paper bag, motor filter and exhaust port filter.

 

[tolivac]

I use mine with both bags-do like the extra filtration-and keeping the cloth bag clean.It was when I was selling them-one of the head salesmen suggested using the cloth bag alone.I didn't agree with that.Its almost like you have a Kirby or an Oreck-and you use them without the inner disposable bag.Same with my NSS M1-the instruction manual says you can use the "Universal" bag with or without paper bags-again I use the paper bags.I have noticed "thrifty" TriStar customers use the machine with the cloth bag.Then one prospect we were selling a TriStar to-she liked the machine-but couldn't get credit to buy it.She was using a Filter Queen vacuum-the filter cone was NASTY-she simply reused it.She did buy a package of filters for the Filter Queen from us.We also sold various brands of vacuum bags.

 

[vinvac]

Bagged for me as well.

Personally, with allergies, I don't want to empty and wash the container each and every time I use it. Part of the reason I don't like using my Rainbows...you can't dump the water in the house...you have to go outside...it is just to messy.

The quality of the high end bags is so good that they really don't leak a lot. Plus with bagless the filters are twice the price of bags..sometimes three and four time the price of bags.

For us as collectors bagless machines are great...we take care of them..for the normal household...they don't clean filters, they just empty the bin and most of the time when you hear a bagless machine running..the pitch is very high as the filters are totally clogged.

Bagless machines for me are a gimmick...the company has you totally convinced that because you can see the dirt swirling around in the clear container that it is really cleaing well. The fact of the matter is that when using a bagged machine with a high quality bag the air flow is staying just as strong and cleaning much better. The filter area of a bagless is so small compared to that of a bagged machine...they clog so much quicker and air flow is reduced almost immediatly.

Morgan

 

[1926700]

im gonna give a diffrent point of veiw on this....

i think bagless is more of a regression then something new, for the new breed of people that are much more lazy and likely to take short cuts then there use to be.

if you think about it, our moms or grand mothers had EVERYTHING bagless (coffee can Hoovers, Kirbys, earley Eureka's,and such), then when Air-Way came out with the first paper bag system, it stared to bring to some peoples attn that a shake bag may not be the most simple or sanitary way to empty a vacuum, but the idea wasint really pushed untill the late 40's when Hoover came out with the Handi-Sacks. then it stared to finally click that throwung a type C bag away was easer and less mess then emptying a Hoover 700 shake bag.

then sometime in the late 70's and earley 80's it was the changing time of convenince...and there were sevral machines that were created so there were "no bags to buy", and also featured tv commercials where a bag canging on something GRAET could be such a hassle.....but even now the public doesnt relize in reality a bagless machine is just as much work if not more than changing a panasinic bag or a type A or Z bag....cuse you dont just empty the bin, theres a few more steps afterwords that are crucial to the machines performance. and to me even a Hoover type C bag or a Eureka F&G bag is more to my likeing than having
to make a huge mess or go out side in the frezzing cold or rian to empty a dirt cup or bin.

 

[lovecanisters]

Bagged

I prefer bagged, I don't own any full size bagless vacuums, but have a few Hoover Quick Brooms/Slider Vac, and I don't like emptying that small dirt cup and cleaning the filter...it's messy and a pain and I'm far from lazy...I usually just use one of my portable canisters to clean the bagless stick vacuums...so it really defeats the purpose of me having a bagless machine. It just works best for me to have a bagged machine.

 

[gsheen]

I must say i prefer bag less but oonly Dyson bag less, In our shop we sell many makes and models and we are taking on the miele vacuums so i bought an S7 upright to try out.. I loved it , quiet easy to use just fantastic I have animals , and despite the bags getting full rather fast I have another problem , they start to smell. even with its charcoal filter the machine gets a certain stink to it. I switched back to my Dyson dc27 and although it is noisier I empty it after each use and 2 years on no smell , not even the dc07 we use now in the family room has the slightest smell to it .

 

[rolls_rapide]

I prefer bags for easy disposal of dust - fling the bag and the dust is gone.

However, with animals, the bags definitely do smell, until the become unbearably so.

Bagless is a pain to empty, usually raining or howling gale, so I get engulfed in the stoor.


Maybe they should be making smaller, cheaper bags that can be changed more often.

 

[danemodsandy]

Two Tips on Smell:

Everyone who has mentioned animal-hair smell (well, dog-hair smell; cats don't have nearly as pronounced an odor) is correct. If you leave the bag in for very long, it gets smelly.

One thing that helps is to change the bag on a schedule, not when it gets full. My bags get changed once a month, no matter what. They're never holding that much dirt for that long, so no smellies.

Also, you can make your bags and house smell really nice if you'll put some of your favorite cologne on a fresh, empty bag, and then let it dry completely before installing the bag. If you put the bag in the cleaner before it's dry, the spot that's wet with cologne is weak and can burst. But after drying, the bag contributes a nice smell of Paco Rabanne or Chanel Egoiste or, hell - Old Spice if that's your thing. Makes the exhaust air smells great.

 

[kirbylux77]

Prefer Multi Cyclonic Bagless vacuums....

I do like bagged vacuums, & it's nice that many bagged vacuums make it so easy to take the bag off, throw it out & put a new one on & continue cleaning. I also feel that the latest generation of vacuums with HEPA cloth bags do filter as well or perhaps better than filtered bagless vacuums. However, having said that, I do feel that micro-filtration or plain paper bags do NOT filter as well as the tower HEPA filters supplied these days with filtered bagless vacuums.

For my personal cleaning situation, I am an apartment dweller, & don't have any cats or dogs, & my carpeting is also low-pile commercial grade carpeting, which doesn't let off lots of carpet fibers. I find that I pick up lots of fine dust & sand, & that clogs my bagged vacuums fairly quickly....even the ones with HEPA cloth bags. For this reason, I prefer to use multi-cyclonic bagless vacuums, such as Fantom, Dyson, Hoover T-Series, etc, most times for my regular cleaning. I have had a Bissell Healthy Home upright now for nearly 2 years, & I find it outcleans many of my bagged or filtered cyclonic vacuums. It also empties without much dust flying in the air, & I don't mind taking the bin outside to empty, & just to be sure dust doesn't get in my face, I wear a white drywall dust mask. I also find the same thing with my Fantom Lightning canister. The only time I find that either my Fantom or Bissell can get messy is that I will take a canister vacuum with a blower, such as a Filter Queen or TriStar, put a crevice tool on the hose, & use that to blow out the multi-cyclonic filter assembly every few months; then I do have to do that outside with a face mask, or dust would be all over the place.

I would use a Water Filtration vacuum, such as Rainbow, & have owned one in the past, but since I clean my carpets every 2-3 days, it would be too inconvenient to set up & empty & clean each time. I also don't believe that water works well at trapping fine dust; when I owned my Rainbow D4, I was always disgusted by the fact that there was dirt on the separator to clean off, & that convinced me their claims of filtration were overstated. If I was to buy another Water Filtration vacuum, it would have to have a HEPA filter on the exhaust.

I agree with many points made about bagless vacuums, though, for sure! Filtered bagless vacuums, in most cases the filters are a pain to get clean, unless they are foam, like the original Bissell Cleanview uprights, or like the Powerforce bagless uprights, the pleated filter is intended to be rinsed & washed clean & left to dry. However, they still lose power when the dust & dirt accumulates on the filter, as they are designed to simulate what a bag does....so you don't get any advantage in cleaning performance. Rather, you get the convenience of throwing out the dirt & not wasting money on bags....BUT you have the cost of replacement filters. So, you still have a cost for consumables. The only real advantage is that you get the satisfaction of seeing all the dirt the vacuum collected & can have a sense of pride in having a clean home.

Rob

BTW- For anyone who is in my particular situation, picking up lots of fine dust & sand, & using a bagged vacuum, here's a tip to restore cleaning power to your vacuum if your bag isn't very full- Open the bag compartment of your vacuum, & if the hole of the bag is exposed, stuff a small dry towel in the hole of the bag. Then, give the bag a good vigorous shake. When you are done, carefully remove the towel, take it outside & shake off the dust that accumulated on the towel. You will notice your vacuum should regain most, if not all, of it's cleaning power, because you have knocked the fine dust off the walls of the bag so air can pass thru.

 

[kirbyvertibles]

For deep cleaning bags are the way to go but bagless are fun to play with and to use as a daily quick cleaning that fine, but when you want to get serious I think the bag is better. As for water well again if it's really dirty you have to stop and empty before you're done, but i'm not knocking them.

 

[rainbowd4c]

@ Morgan. I dump my Rainbow down the toilet or the kitchen sink. I've never had a problem with it and I've done that for years.

I will admit that when it comes to bagged machines I like Electrolux/Aerus with the way they seal off when you open the machine. If I were to ever get a new vacuum that is what I would get.

 

[gmerkt]

Here's a kinda funny bagless story. When I sell a refurbed vac, I give a 30 day guarantee on it. One time a lady came over, took a look at what I had and fairly quickly decided upon a Hoover Windtunnel bagless, the higher level machine with the dual chamber and tall pleated element filter. These machines actually have pretty good suction when everything is tip-top.

Anyway, almost a month later the same lady sent me an email telling me the machine was giving her problems. She said something like, "It worked fine for the first few weeks I had it but now it isn't working right." I told her to bring it over so I could look at it. She did and right away I could see the machine was completely filthy. A closer look showed that the pre-filter and the main filter were missing. These two filters fit together, then slip into one side of the dirt canister. Without these two vital parts, the dirt enters the machine and goes right into the motor case. Also, the absense of the primary filter leaves a gap at the bottom of the dirt bin for dust and debris to fly out of. There is a pre-motor filter on this model but its purpose is only to keep out the big stuff. I pointed out the missing filters and the lady said, "Oh. I turned this over to my kids to do chores with. They emptied out the dirt bin." In so doing, they let the pre-filter and filter element drop into the trash with the debris. They didn't notice these parts were missing; they just put the lid back on the dirt bin and reinstalled it in the vacuum cleaner.

The lady freely admitted her kids were to blame. Her solution was to buy another machine just like it that I had and she gave back me the original one. I took it apart to the back bone getting it clean, but it worked out just fine. But that motor compartment was a mess. It's all ready to go out again to a new owner; I haven't tried to sell it yet as I've been too busy on other projects in November and December. Pretty lavender color.