Any Pontiac Grand Prix owners?

[human]

Vac-o-matic wrote: Then in the '70s you could buy a Pontiac or Olds, and it could have a Chevy inspired engine.

I reply: They weren't just Chevy inspired engines, they WERE Chevy engines. My dad was a district sales manager for Oldsmobile from 1959-1991 and that was a big stink around 1978 when Oldsmobile couldn't build enough of their 350 "Rocket V8" engines so they quietly substituted Chevy 350's, even going so far as to put the "Rocket 350" decals on the air cleaner lids. That was where they screwed up. There wasn't a thing in the world wrong with the Chevy engine, but they should have told the customers up front what they were getting. It all hit the fan when some smart-ass in the service department of an Olds dealership told a customer who'd thrown a fan belt on his Eighty-Eight that he'd have to go down to the Chevy dealership to get it fixed because the Olds dealership didn't stock the right belt. The customer responded by filing a lawsuit. To this day, price stickers on GM cars now have a disclaimer that says the engine may be built by any GM division.

 

[vacerator]

re; GM engine usage

Wow, I never knew, or saw an Olds, Pontiac, or a Buick with an air cleaner sticker claiming they were that divisions engine.
I had seen Olds 350's in '77 Bonneville's though.
The Chevy V8 was fine, except the Olds was smoother, and had positive valve rotation, so by up around 60,000 miles, never suffered from the "chevy" lifter ticks on under maintained oil changed engines.
Buick lost production capacity when it began milling it's V6 again in 1975, so they put the chevy 305 in Regals, and LeSabres as well as Olds.
Olds was also making the fuel Injected 350 for the Cadillac Seville, so I think that was part of the reason they used the Chevy mill.
The Olds 307 was gone by 1990, and Buick stopped V8 production in the 80's, and the last Pontiac V8 was made in 1981, so all engines became corporate after that.
The 2.8, 3.1, 3.4, and 4.3 litre V6's were Chevrolet designs. The 3.3, 3.8, and 4.1 were Buick designs. All V8's were Chevrolet or Cadillac designs, save the 6.2 litre diesel, which was a Detroit diesel design.

 

[suckolux]

Actually I was told that Cadillac assembled their own 350 from Olds parts for their Seville. I owned 3

 

[human]

That's true, David. The Sevilles of the 1970s used an Olds 350 to which Cadillac added fuel injection. It was a relatively simple throttle body setup, as opposed to multi-port, which made it a pretty easy bolt-on in place of the standard carburetor. I think Olds also used that fuel injection system on the diesel 350's they offered in the late '70s and early '80s, which were based on the same "Rocket 350" block.

 

[vacerator]

David,

who told you that? A salesman? Now they wouldn't want you to think you were getting anything less than the quality standard for the world like you were paying for. Some buyers would have just bought an Olds 98 with a 455 for even less than a Seville if they knew they were only getting an Olds engine.
I knew the son of the engine line foreman at Cadillac at the time.
All Cadillac added was the fuel Injection to the engine.
It made no sense to ship engine pieces from Lansing to Livonia engine or Detroit final assembly. Livonia engine was at full production capacity with the 500 cubic inch for Eldorados, Fleetwoods, and DeVilles.

 

[vacerator]

David,

in late '78, Olds also added diesel engines to the Delta engine plant, further reducing gas V8 production capacity. Yes, the same 350 V8 diesel that went into the bussle back Seville and the downsized Eldorado.

 

[suckolux]

My dad bought a 79 with the Diesel, oh lord, what were they thinking! My brother had a black 76, I had a white 76, dad got a white 79, serious piece of crap. The Fuel Injection system used on the Caddys was Bosch supplied. Throttle body.

 

[suckolux]

The diesel Olds was direct injection

 

[human]

Diesel Olds

Their thinking at the time was that unlike now, diesel fuel was considerably less expensive than gasoline and the diesel cars, even though they had no pickup, got better fuel economy then their gasoline counterparts. Unfortunately, the engines were terribly unreliable. I don't remember the last time I saw one on the road.

 

[suckolux]

They lacked enough head bolts. I want to say the HP was around 110? not much, but they did save fuel when they ran.The compression is so much higher.

 

[suckolux]

I may be wrong, but I think the first VW diesel was a converted gas too?? seems I remember hearing that around the auto auctions.Yep, I was a dealer, no digs please

 

[vacerator]

Yes the VW

diesels were also petrol (gas blocks) but way more reliable.
Olds stroked the 350 without beefing up the bearings, connecting rods, and crank to handle the 22.5 to 1 compression ratio under load with 4 or 6 passengers.
They put a little to much trust in the Olds ruggedness as a petrol mill.
They worked the bugs out by the time diesel was no longer cheaper than petrol.
They were noisy to boot.
A diesel has to have fuel injection. Though intake port injected, it was not direct injected. Direct injection means the fuel is injected into the combustion chamber closer to the detonation point.

 

[suckolux]

Hmm, possible! I have never seen a diesel that wasn't direct injected, maybe should have looked closer! Having no real throttle ya know

 

[gottahaveahoove]

I have a friend, (yes, I do)

who had one. On trips, she'd ask me to drive. I liked it. Sadly, Pontiacs are no longer. You still see lots of them on the road.,
I dated someone who has a white one. The entire thing was a huge mistake.

 

[vacerator]

re; huge mistake, throttle

John, unfortunately, it's the only way to find out by dating.
David, fuel injected engines only throttle more or less air. Diesel or petrol.
The ecm, injectors, and pressure regulator adjust fuel flow to the intake ports in the cylinder heads. They only have a throttle plate.
Older diesels had mechanical fuel injection pumps in place of a spark distributor.

 

[kenkart]

RE 54 Buick

Rides good, and that old Dynaflow has never been equaled for smoothness.

 

[vacerator]

re; Dynaflow

smoothest ever! nick named slush-o-matic. At least it was more reliable, though not as efficient than the subsequent Jet-away, slim jim, and Turboglide hydramatics. GM lost the tooling for the first 4 speed hydramatic in the Livonia plant fire of 1954. Hence came the 2 speed Powerglide, first with cast iron case, then aluminum. It took them until 1965 to bring out the 350 and 400 3 speed turbohydramatics.

 

[suckolux]

Mike, my car book says turbo 400 available on 64 Riv! No? I am only reading it, never seen one.

 

[vacerator]

David,

Oh, probably so, perhaps as early as the '63 Riv. I forgot all about the Riviera.
Usually Oldsmobile was the experimental divison, and the Toronado didn't come out until '66, which had the thm 375, a turbo 400 for front drive.
I only know the new trans didn't go into any Chevy's, Pontiacs, or Buicks until '65 when the big block 396, 427, 421 super duty, and the Buick 430 Wildcat came out.
Cadillac may have also used it before '65 on the 390. Maybe the rear drive Olds 425 V8 also.

 

[vacerator]

main difference

between a 350 and 400 turbo was an, or a larger center shaft support, and electric passing gear kick down.