Can't figure Royal Metal uprights out

97widerider · Mar 18, 2019

Hello all, been "collecting" quality vacuums for about 5 years now. Usually find them at thrift shops, set out at garbage etc. Have found a few gems like a Kirby Heritage II that just needed a new hose for the bag. Have two craigslist finds, a 2002 Kirby G5 and a 2007 Kirby Sentria. Cant understand why people selling perfectly good Made in USA vacs for pennies on the dollar. Both were like new.

Anyway, I have always wanted a Royal metal upright. Found a 4000 model (year 2000) at a thrift shop for $15.00 Needs a brush roller and belt. Cleaned it up with some mag polish and it really shines. I am guessing it doesn't have too much useage due to the red rubber handle looking like new still and the light bulb still works. Motor sounds great and it separates the carpet from the pad with it's suction. I tried taking it apart but ended up stripping a screw so that will have to wait until I really need to get into it.

Now to the issue. I am learning that Royal doesn't have product support like Kirby when it comes to parts. Looks like I am limited on what can be fixed or replaced. I mean if I need new carbon brushes I can't seem to find anything for my specific model. Roller bars are very expensive and not as plentiful. Light bulbs can't be found. My 1988 Kirby Heritage II had every part available still, at least the ones I needed.

Furthermore, why doesn't my 4000 "Classic Edition" show up on any Royal manufacturers time line? I found a very comprehensive one on this forum before but not a word mentioned on the 4000. Why do Royal's have 'Commercial Quality" on them but aren't pushed as commercial vacuums but homeowner vacuums? Their commercial line looks the same but a different color, orange is it?

Finally, how long can I expect this vacuum to last with vacuuming three bedrooms and a living room rug about twice a week, oh lets say 5- 10 minutes of "on" time twice a week? Of course we don't know what it's been through thus far.

I know I threw a lot at you first post but so many questions.

Thanks

vacuumdevil · Mar 18, 2019

Will unlike Kirby,royal has been bought and sold a few times or something like that. Somebody else can clarify when the Chinese company TTI purchased Royal.

But basically TTI is washing their hands of the metal uprights. Due to manufacturing costs and lack of demand. As you could imagine in 2019 there's not really a market for them past collectors.

Generally speaking of ESSCO doesn't have it it's not available. It must be purchased second-hand or New old stock somewhere.

Hope that helps.

https://www.essco.net

superocd · Mar 18, 2019

I hope my Royal 884 outlasts me...

I'm only 25, I'm sure it will but I would be heartbroken if it conked out with no way to fix it. I couldn't bear the thought of trashing it even though I only paid $10 for it at a thrift store. When I bought it, I actually walked away from it, thinking that "no, I don't need another vacuum" (I had just purchased a Sentria I), but I couldn't walk away from it. I'm glad at the fact that I decided to take it home.

It's older than I am (it was manufactured in 1988) and still does a great job. Fortunately mine is old enough to have an oil port for the rear bearing (unfortumately none for the front), so I guess a regular oiling will extend its life. However, it is a real problem that parts are not as easy to obtain vs. something like a Kirby. I will say that I was able to find a Royal brushroll for $25, which is in line with what Kirby brushrolls are priced. I think that the pre-G Series Kirby carbon brushes are compatible with Royals, but not 100% sure on that. As far as everything else is concerned, like fans, armatures, bearings/plates, etc., it seems more or less like "cross your fingers".

huskyvacs · Mar 18, 2019

Local vacuum shops should carry Royal parts, mine here do. It should last you forever, they were only sold for industrial use and they are built to take it.

madman · Mar 18, 2019

"Cant understand why people selling perfectly good Made in USA vacs for pennies on the dollar. Both were like new."

Because a fool and his money are soon parted.

"I mean if I need new carbon brushes I can't seem to find anything for my specific model. Roller bars are very expensive and not as plentiful. Light bulbs can't be found."

I believe most Royal carbon brushes should fit, and they should be available through ebay. If not, brushes are literally just chunks of carbon - any old thing will do. Measure them and search ebay with the measurements and the term 'carbon brushes.' You may have to search for the nearest fractional size and nearest metric size to turn up something. Most brushes come in fairly standard sizes - as long as they look similar - and don't be afraid to buy brushes a little too big and shave them down with sandpaper or a razor blade. As long as they fit well in the brush holders - not too tight or too loose - slide easily, and have roughly the proper springs behind them (you can always reuse the original brush springs [I'm assuming they have springs]), they will work.

As for light bulbs... don't they just use a standard bayonet appliance light bulb? aka 'vacuum cleaner light bulb'? I'll bet it's similar to the aftermarket car parts industry, where if you're searching for something very specific, but for a very common car, and come up with absolutely nothing, it's often because the part you're looking for is so common and universally used, that it's rarely, if ever, associated with the particular car you're searching under. Hopefully someone else will chime in and let you know what kind of light bulb it uses.

Also another helpful tip with an automotive allegory: when you're looking for parts for that weird car that nobody really knows exists, you usually have to find its nearest sibling and look up that instead. Luckily for you, Royals are all very similar to each other. They're kind of like the VW Beetle, 'evolutionary design' aka, they never changed anything. I'll bet if you need a part, and you just search for 'Royal' instead of 'Royal 4000' the stuff that turns up will probably fit. Hopefully someone else here can let you know what's the nearest relative to the 4000.

rivstg1 · Mar 18, 2019

I use Chinese made led bulbs ( single or double contact point depending on your model .... works beautifully. Enjoy...with MORE light now

97widerider · Mar 19, 2019

Well, thanks for all the replies. MadMan, you make a lot of sense and I will explore the route of the "next of kin" parts so to speak. Fortunately everything works to include the light at this time.

I do find it odd that even with all the different model numbers through the years, they all look similar. However, when I am shopping for a 14" brush roller, the different years/models call for different part numbers. My 4000 model ends in a 4000 but a part number that ends in a 3000 or 5000 will not fit. The vacs that these rollers fit look identical as well. You would think that Royal would find it more cost effective to make the parts interchangeable throughout the model changes.

Anyway, all I need is a roller (which can be had locally for $37.00) and I am on my way.

BTW, My favorite feature for this vac is that I can lock the handle completely horizontal and store in upright is the closet.

kirbyclassiciii · Mar 19, 2019

97widerider

Derek,

These are the specific replacement part numbers you need to reference for your model 4000:

1-672260-001 = belt (Style 8)
2-673274-000 = revolving brush assembly w/ magnet for brush speed indicator light

~Ben

97widerider · Mar 20, 2019

I went to my neighborhood vac shop to buy a brush roller and a belt. The patient gentlemen gave me the complete rundown of Royal Company and their history of vacuums. I'm talking 20 -30 minutes worth of chatting.

He says that as an authorized Royal dealer, he was told by Royal that all vacs should have parts available but he is also noticing that many parts are now obsolete. He is also concerned about the current status of Royal vacs and not sure they will be new ones produced in the near future.

He reassured me that he currently has every part for my 4000, if not new then it can be taken from the Royal "junkyard" he has in the back. He confirmed that most models are indeed interchangeable in their parts and it is often a trial and error procedure. He has new motors, used motors, bearings, you name it.

Long live my Royal.

madman · Mar 20, 2019

Well hey, that's good to hear!

lesinutah · Mar 21, 2019

Hey

I just got my royal 4000 it has 10.5 amp motor. The bulb is same as older Kirby's. I'm thinking Sylvania 1560. I couldn't get the led ones to work. It is loud. The carbon brushes are same as early Kirby models.
This royal has drop in motor. Everything's enclosed in housing. I don't have 10amp 1030z but this feels stronger.
Les

madman · Mar 22, 2019

Looks like an 1156 automotive light bulb that's 12v. Kirby's use 12v light bulbs, didn't know any Royals did that.

lesinutah · Mar 25, 2019

Hey

Kirby 505- classic 1 use 1156, all royal vacuums, my older riccar 8650 eurekas sanitairre, most power nozzles,
Just an example Kirby 505 and royal made in 1949 all take same bulb.
Les

97widerider · Mar 25, 2019

Thanks so much for the info ! Sounds like plenty of replacement parts to be found.

Les, are the carbon brushes easily accessible once the motor is pulled? I do not have the model where they are under caps at the rear. If the motor is still out could you possibly send a pic of one?

Thanks

kirbyclassiciii · Mar 26, 2019

97widerider

Derek,

The correct light bulb to use will depend on if the machine has the non-drop-in motor (7.0 amp or lower, with carbon brush access caps on the motor housing) or if it has the drop-in type motor (7.5 - 10.5 amps)

Use part no. 1-880629-000 (a 120-volt bulb) on all Royal metal uprights rated 7.0 amps or lower. This is what your 5700 (9700) would use.

Use part no. 1-725629-000 (a 12-volt bulb) on all Royal metal uprights rated 7.5 amps or higher. This is what your 4000 would use.

~Ben

madman · Mar 26, 2019

Ok, those part numbers don't come up with anything unless you omit the beginning and end numbers. So here:

880629 - 120v
725629 - 12v

Looking at the 12v bulb, apparently I was wrong, it is NOT an 1156. That would make too much sense. Instead they basically used the same bayonet base as the 120v bulb, but put a 12v 1156 bulb into it. In other words, the base has two contacts on the bottom. There's only one listing on ebay for it, and a couple here and there. So not impossible to find, but not exactly plentiful either. I'd assume vac shops or vac parts websites would carry them.

The 120v light bulb I swear looks like any ordinary "appliance light bulb" or "vacuum light bulb." Correct me if I'm wrong.

Me, personally, it would bother me that those 12v light bulbs are hard to get. I'd just modify the bulb socket to take a NORMAL 1156 bulb. But hey, that's just me :3

lesinutah · Mar 27, 2019

Hey

The motor is similar to s cannister vacuum Motor. The bulbs a Sylvania 1156. The carbon brush from 505-d80 fit perfectly. The carbon brush I'll send pics of. I have and pretty sure kelton got bulbs I mentioned. There is 2 bulbs. One is a little longer than stock 1156 bulb and other is same size.
eBay Kirby needs sales carbon brushes. Led I'll provide link later when I get home.
Amebush lamb makes most motors that's why Kirby carbon brush fits.
I'll check the belt out some parts may be interchangeable but belts you the right belt always get oem.
Les

97widerider · Mar 27, 2019

I really appreciate that. I’m grabbing some brushes to keep on hand. I plan on keeping this vac running for as long as I can. I will be visiting my folks in another state this weekend and they live by a few Peddlers Malls (basically a flea market that’s indoors) and am determined to grab either another Royal or older Kirby.

lesinutah · Mar 27, 2019

Pic

Hey
I took pics. The normal Kirby are small carbon brushes the bigger brushes on legend 2 are next to royal carbon brushes. I have been confused as I have been working on 3 older royal vacuums lately.
These carbon brushes are the biggest I have seen.
The copper coil is attached to back of brushes. The spring I took off and put back on in pics.
The top of the motor housing is 4 numbers on each side.
For now go with Sylvania 1156 bulb. I don't have led bulb on this yet as I just cleaned it up. Check carbon brushes but you are probably good because those suckers are huge.
The interchangeable royal Kirby parts are for almost every model except this model.
So just stick with regular light and check carbon brush but there probably good.
The royal we both have has biggest motor I've seen in uprights. I know amebush lamb made the motor. So ordering motor parts order from amebush lamb as this is only 10.5 amp royal upright your not going to find parts.
The 14 inch royal brush roll fits.
The bearing plate and fan remind me of rexair rainbow motor and amebush lamb compact interstate motor.
Les