Why don't more UK canisters have Power nozzles?
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vintagerepairer
Well-known member
I agree that carpets act as a filter. My place was hard floors throughout when I arrived and I hated it. My dust was forever airbourne. At least the carpet held onto it until it was time to vacuum.
fantomlightning
Well-known member
That's exactly why I started keeping a robotic vacuum to run every day. My home is, as one person said "striped". It goes hard floor, carpet, hard floor, carpet, hard floor. From front to back, when the cats start shedding there are tumbleweeds of cat hair rolling across the hard floors if they aren't cleaned daily. So I set the Roomba down, hit start and walk away.
sebo_fan
Well-known member
Finland and most of Scandinavia are incredibly energy and environmentally friendly. Certainly if you have ever gone to an IKEA store you can see where they get their inspiration from. Not only that, but they like their real fire places or wood burning stoves where the heat in the home hovers all around. No wonder they prefer insulation; out of view, out of mind.
In Scotland carpet is a must to insulate a home in MOST areas of Scotland unless they're lucky enough to get warmer weather all of the year.
But in areas such as bathroom, toilet, kitchen and even a utility room where laundry takes place, hard floors/lino are a necessity.
I have said this before though and I will say it again - I think the reason why UK prefer uprights over canisters with PNs is simply because we have been brainwashed by Hoover and other brands that an upright beats carpet whereas a canister vac gets the dirt above the floor line.
Also helped along by the fact that the "cylinder leaders," Miele have seldom offered a cylinder vac with a PN in the UK again since the days of the Revolution model.
Clearly things are changing now with other brands offering PN's over SEBO who were one of the first brands to offer a PN with a cylinder/canister.
Still though, I prefer a straight suction cylinder vac. Im used to them being lightweight from hose to floor head. The SEBO K3 Premium may well be a light and compact vac by design, but I find the Felix upright to be far more nimble at getting around my home even when it uses the same PN.
In Scotland carpet is a must to insulate a home in MOST areas of Scotland unless they're lucky enough to get warmer weather all of the year.
But in areas such as bathroom, toilet, kitchen and even a utility room where laundry takes place, hard floors/lino are a necessity.
I have said this before though and I will say it again - I think the reason why UK prefer uprights over canisters with PNs is simply because we have been brainwashed by Hoover and other brands that an upright beats carpet whereas a canister vac gets the dirt above the floor line.
Also helped along by the fact that the "cylinder leaders," Miele have seldom offered a cylinder vac with a PN in the UK again since the days of the Revolution model.
Clearly things are changing now with other brands offering PN's over SEBO who were one of the first brands to offer a PN with a cylinder/canister.
Still though, I prefer a straight suction cylinder vac. Im used to them being lightweight from hose to floor head. The SEBO K3 Premium may well be a light and compact vac by design, but I find the Felix upright to be far more nimble at getting around my home even when it uses the same PN.
sebo_fan
Well-known member
Parwaz - I also have a mat by the kitchen sink. Stops me sliding when I am washing the dishes.
And the mat is machine washable and small enough to be put in a washing machine.
And the mat is machine washable and small enough to be put in a washing machine.
Cool, nice to know we are not the only ones lol 
Ours is a rubber backing and measurea approx 50CM X1 metre. Its difficult to vacuum with any machine because all of them have powerful suction and just gets either lifted up or moved round
Ours is a rubber backing and measurea approx 50CM X1 metre. Its difficult to vacuum with any machine because all of them have powerful suction and just gets either lifted up or moved roundfantomlightning
Well-known member
I get that they're environmentally friendly, and that their homes to start are much better insulated. But what exactly does that have to do with their view of carpet as unsanitary? Even on the environmental side of things, unless you're talking cleaning hard floors with a Floormate vs cleaning a carpet with hot water extraction I doubt there's that much of a water usage difference. The story may be different on the manufacturing side on carpet vs hard flooring, but that I'm not too sure about.
sebo_fan
Well-known member
Well the industry might be different there Fantom. Not all countries use electrical appliances to clean floors. A lot still use brooms, feathery brooms or just wet mopping for hard floors.
I can't answer why that blog poster states that having carpets in a home is unsanitary. It might be the way in that country alone, just like the preference to uprights for carpet cleaning in the UK versus cylinder vacs with PNs.
I can't answer why that blog poster states that having carpets in a home is unsanitary. It might be the way in that country alone, just like the preference to uprights for carpet cleaning in the UK versus cylinder vacs with PNs.
fantomlightning
Well-known member
It's not, from the research I've done it appears at the very least Sweden is the same way. I'm guessing there are more than just those two.
oliveoiltinfoil
Well-known member
I do agree, carpeting is just much nicer. It is easier on your joints as well, for anyone because it is softer and more absorbent. It makes a room quieter and warmer and also stays cleaner for longer. Washing a hard-floor and then 5 minutes later it has mark all over it is so depressing, constantly keeping on top of it. In the kitchen hardflooring is a must as spills are quickly mopped up, and of course in the bathroom where water splashes and it is a place of high humidity.
However, to properly maintain carpets, the second best thing you can invest in is a carpet washer, and a good one like a Bissell Big Green. A commercial type. Most other carpet washer are just not powerful enough and leave water in the carpet, but using a powerful and effective carpet cleaner 2 or 3 times per year will keep your carpets in top condition. It doesn't matter if you have a Kirby or a Vax, vacuuming only cleans so much in a carpet. Dirt clings onto fibres which can only be extracted using detergent, like your clothes. No one vacuums there clothes all the time to keep them clean and never wash them ?
I know some will say that washing carpets is bad, as does Mr Dyson, but speak to some carpet fitters. Quite often, especially these days where a lot of carpet is made from man-made fibres, they recommend you wash the carpets at least once a year. Some of them even say you can do it with one part bleach 10 part water, and the dye in carpets now is much stronger and more durable. Carpets will not shrink so long as you don't over saturate them. I have been washing our carpets for a few years now and they haven't shrunk or ruined in anyway, they just look the same colour as when they were first laid down.
However, to properly maintain carpets, the second best thing you can invest in is a carpet washer, and a good one like a Bissell Big Green. A commercial type. Most other carpet washer are just not powerful enough and leave water in the carpet, but using a powerful and effective carpet cleaner 2 or 3 times per year will keep your carpets in top condition. It doesn't matter if you have a Kirby or a Vax, vacuuming only cleans so much in a carpet. Dirt clings onto fibres which can only be extracted using detergent, like your clothes. No one vacuums there clothes all the time to keep them clean and never wash them ?
I know some will say that washing carpets is bad, as does Mr Dyson, but speak to some carpet fitters. Quite often, especially these days where a lot of carpet is made from man-made fibres, they recommend you wash the carpets at least once a year. Some of them even say you can do it with one part bleach 10 part water, and the dye in carpets now is much stronger and more durable. Carpets will not shrink so long as you don't over saturate them. I have been washing our carpets for a few years now and they haven't shrunk or ruined in anyway, they just look the same colour as when they were first laid down.
turbo500
Well-known member
Just another point in addition to what Benny, Nar et al have mentioned regarding PN cylinders.
The UK has been part of Europe for a long time now and whilst we do have our differences from mainland European countries, we usually get the same products due to the close proximity and our small size. Most mainland European countries, especially the hotter countries like Italy and Spain, have 99% hard floors, rendering most uprights useless.
Even in France and Germany, hard floors are more popular and uprights mostly used only in commercial enviroments.
PN cylinders aren't popular in the Europe for the same reason - what's the point in having a PN if you have no carpet? So be default, we usually get the same machines. I guess the big manufacturers didn't see the point in making a PN cylinder just for the UK which is a largely upright dominated market anyway.
There were some PN cylinders, but these were usually very expensive, much more so than an upright. I imagine most buyers couldn't justify the price difference between and upright and a PN cylinder.
The UK has been part of Europe for a long time now and whilst we do have our differences from mainland European countries, we usually get the same products due to the close proximity and our small size. Most mainland European countries, especially the hotter countries like Italy and Spain, have 99% hard floors, rendering most uprights useless.
Even in France and Germany, hard floors are more popular and uprights mostly used only in commercial enviroments.
PN cylinders aren't popular in the Europe for the same reason - what's the point in having a PN if you have no carpet? So be default, we usually get the same machines. I guess the big manufacturers didn't see the point in making a PN cylinder just for the UK which is a largely upright dominated market anyway.
There were some PN cylinders, but these were usually very expensive, much more so than an upright. I imagine most buyers couldn't justify the price difference between and upright and a PN cylinder.
turbo500
Well-known member
it's pure ignorance
I'm sorry, but this comment really irritated me.
You have to put yourself in an average customers shoes. We, as collectors and enthusiasts, know this stuff. But your average customer may not even care. Not everyone is interested in vacuums and the majority of buyers will be happy as long as their floors look clean, regardless of the method.
My non-enthusiast family and friends mostly couldn't give a toss about "deep down grit" or otherwise as long as the vacuum picks the bits up off the floor, they're happy.
It's nothing to do with ignorance, it's just that the general consumer isn't particularly interested in vacuums like we are.
I'm sorry, but this comment really irritated me.
You have to put yourself in an average customers shoes. We, as collectors and enthusiasts, know this stuff. But your average customer may not even care. Not everyone is interested in vacuums and the majority of buyers will be happy as long as their floors look clean, regardless of the method.
My non-enthusiast family and friends mostly couldn't give a toss about "deep down grit" or otherwise as long as the vacuum picks the bits up off the floor, they're happy.
It's nothing to do with ignorance, it's just that the general consumer isn't particularly interested in vacuums like we are.
I have to add that people in the Finland are used to canister vacuums with the light combination floorhead.
It's our way to do the weekly vacuuming quickly. That's what normal consumer cares about. Not how well the rugs are deep cleaned.
My Vacuum hobby started when I was frustrated vacuuming my large & thick rug in the living room with the straight suction canister. Then I bought my first turbo brush to "solve" the problem. Obviously it wasn't the final solution.
I started to do modification to the turbo brush and managed to get some improvements. I still wasn't happy and experiments continued.
At that time I also started to explore the internet about other peoples experiences over the world.
Well obviously I found out that in the US people are using the powerhead with their canisters.
Needless to say I wanted one badly and I started to search for the cheap powerhead. No results.
Finally I found one net store which sells spare parts for the household appliances. And yes powerheads! They had only one model from Miele and couple or three models from the Electrolux. Miele was SEB 217 and Electrolux models were smaller.
Finally I bought the Miele SEB 217 and thought that I must be crazy to spend 100€ to get just the powerhead when the basic Miele S2-series cost around 130-150€.
Then I just "cruelly" disassembled my Electrolux (almost new at the time) and made power outlet for the powerhead.
First time I used the powerhead it was so effortless to vacuum rugs with it. No turbo head screaming or brush roll slowing down. Major advantage was also ability to vacuum hard floors with it by just switching brush roll off.
Next step is the bigger powerhead with height adjustment
It's our way to do the weekly vacuuming quickly. That's what normal consumer cares about. Not how well the rugs are deep cleaned.
My Vacuum hobby started when I was frustrated vacuuming my large & thick rug in the living room with the straight suction canister. Then I bought my first turbo brush to "solve" the problem. Obviously it wasn't the final solution.
I started to do modification to the turbo brush and managed to get some improvements. I still wasn't happy and experiments continued.
At that time I also started to explore the internet about other peoples experiences over the world.
Well obviously I found out that in the US people are using the powerhead with their canisters.
Needless to say I wanted one badly and I started to search for the cheap powerhead. No results.
Finally I found one net store which sells spare parts for the household appliances. And yes powerheads! They had only one model from Miele and couple or three models from the Electrolux. Miele was SEB 217 and Electrolux models were smaller.
Finally I bought the Miele SEB 217 and thought that I must be crazy to spend 100€ to get just the powerhead when the basic Miele S2-series cost around 130-150€.
Then I just "cruelly" disassembled my Electrolux (almost new at the time) and made power outlet for the powerhead.
First time I used the powerhead it was so effortless to vacuum rugs with it. No turbo head screaming or brush roll slowing down. Major advantage was also ability to vacuum hard floors with it by just switching brush roll off.
Next step is the bigger powerhead with height adjustment
sensotronic
Well-known member
I have always preferred power head cylinders over straight suction machines and thankfully Hoover offered several models in the 80s and 90s that met my needs.
I think the first power head offered in the UK on a Hoover machine was on a Freedom cylinder and after that we had several ranges of Sensotronics and Compacts that featured one or two models with a power head. I believe the last UK Hoover to have a power head was a top of the range Alpina.
For above floor and detailed cleaning I do prefer a straight suction machine with a longer hose, but for all round versatity I think a good power head cylinder beats a tools attached upright for convenience and performance. I hope to get a Sebo K3 or E3 Premium soon so I will be able to test out that theory.
I think the first power head offered in the UK on a Hoover machine was on a Freedom cylinder and after that we had several ranges of Sensotronics and Compacts that featured one or two models with a power head. I believe the last UK Hoover to have a power head was a top of the range Alpina.
For above floor and detailed cleaning I do prefer a straight suction machine with a longer hose, but for all round versatity I think a good power head cylinder beats a tools attached upright for convenience and performance. I hope to get a Sebo K3 or E3 Premium soon so I will be able to test out that theory.
ralph123
Well-known member
Marcusprit said: "It's because most people in the UK prefer an upright on their carpeted floor."
I have to agree with Marcus. Most vacuums sold in the UK are bypass uprights. As Tom Gasko has mentioned, these are canister powerteams in an upright configuration. You can turn off the brush roll to clean bare floors on many of these. You can always get a nice small canister straight suction vacuum for the bare floors.
I can't remember who said it, but a "cleaning efficiency expert" once said that cleaning with a power team was slow and kind of like dragging a dead pig. Many uprights can outclean powerteams for far less money.
Unless you want a water filtration vacuum to do aromatherapy, you probably don't need a canister in most households.
I've mentioned before that my parents have a 9-lb riccar supralite and a small straight suction Riccar canister with the awesome floor brush. It's an awesome cleaning combination.
the key to using a bypass upright vacuums as a canister is to purchase the right tools. I have the deluxe tools for my Simplicity 7 series.
I have to agree with Marcus. Most vacuums sold in the UK are bypass uprights. As Tom Gasko has mentioned, these are canister powerteams in an upright configuration. You can turn off the brush roll to clean bare floors on many of these. You can always get a nice small canister straight suction vacuum for the bare floors.
I can't remember who said it, but a "cleaning efficiency expert" once said that cleaning with a power team was slow and kind of like dragging a dead pig. Many uprights can outclean powerteams for far less money.
Unless you want a water filtration vacuum to do aromatherapy, you probably don't need a canister in most households.
I've mentioned before that my parents have a 9-lb riccar supralite and a small straight suction Riccar canister with the awesome floor brush. It's an awesome cleaning combination.
the key to using a bypass upright vacuums as a canister is to purchase the right tools. I have the deluxe tools for my Simplicity 7 series.
turbo500
Well-known member
^I actually prefer using a cylinder. I'm currently using a Miele Cat & Dog with the air driven turbo brush, but planning on up grading to a C3 powernozzle model once other household commitments are paid for.
We have mostly carpet, but of varying type with hard floors in the kitchen, laundry room and 3 bathrooms.
Using the cylinder means I can go from carpet, to shag rug, to hard floors, to stairs, to sofa's and beds, to dusting, easily moving around and under large furniture and reaching high up in corners and on the tops of high furniture, without having to turn the machine off or stop what I'm doing and switch the cleaner to another mode. It makes life much easier.
We have mostly carpet, but of varying type with hard floors in the kitchen, laundry room and 3 bathrooms.
Using the cylinder means I can go from carpet, to shag rug, to hard floors, to stairs, to sofa's and beds, to dusting, easily moving around and under large furniture and reaching high up in corners and on the tops of high furniture, without having to turn the machine off or stop what I'm doing and switch the cleaner to another mode. It makes life much easier.
sebo_fan
Well-known member
The key is buying the right kind of tools...
Yes, but the thing is, Ralph - in the UK we don't get much supply of universal cleaning tools for upright vacs. Only certain brands offer extra cost optional tools and some of them are not all that extra versatile.
The U.S like huge dusting brushes and are happy to discount Miele's round dusting brushes for example whereas I think most consumers here are quite happy with the smaller cleaning tools in general. Cue smaller than small cleaning tools on board a lot of canister/cylinder vacuums in general with the "smaller European size."
Again as with the old UK selling point regarding uprights for carpets and cylinders for anything else above the floor line, cylinder vacs here tend to be given smaller cleaning tools for point to point cleaning, reinforcing the idea that the long hose and machine behind it as per the design is for getting at awkward areas with EASE compared to the shorter hose supplied on an upright.
This then qualifies most uprights' inability to stand up when a hose is used, if fitted whlist the cylinder/canister concept is generally safer but lighter to pull or carry around.
Personally speaking I find that sometimes if too many tools are stored on board an upright, it all becomes too bulky, too heavy for the upright and liable for tools to fall off.
Yes, but the thing is, Ralph - in the UK we don't get much supply of universal cleaning tools for upright vacs. Only certain brands offer extra cost optional tools and some of them are not all that extra versatile.
The U.S like huge dusting brushes and are happy to discount Miele's round dusting brushes for example whereas I think most consumers here are quite happy with the smaller cleaning tools in general. Cue smaller than small cleaning tools on board a lot of canister/cylinder vacuums in general with the "smaller European size."
Again as with the old UK selling point regarding uprights for carpets and cylinders for anything else above the floor line, cylinder vacs here tend to be given smaller cleaning tools for point to point cleaning, reinforcing the idea that the long hose and machine behind it as per the design is for getting at awkward areas with EASE compared to the shorter hose supplied on an upright.
This then qualifies most uprights' inability to stand up when a hose is used, if fitted whlist the cylinder/canister concept is generally safer but lighter to pull or carry around.
Personally speaking I find that sometimes if too many tools are stored on board an upright, it all becomes too bulky, too heavy for the upright and liable for tools to fall off.
hooverjedilord
Well-known member
Just ignorance...
Okay, maybe I was too harsh, I find it hard to detach myself from the "collecting point of view" But I feel very strongly about the fact that any home with rugs or carpets needs a brushroll head of some sort, with it be a turbo nozzle or an upright or a power nozzle, it makes such a difference. My friend recently brought a vax air cordless lift to replace his numatic Henry HVR200a. It made such a different, cleaning his small upstairs hallway filled the dirt bin to the top! As most people know the suction on the cordless machines aren't great, but boy, that agitation was brilliant! I'm not condoning straight suction machines, they are fine on hardfloors, but agitation is necessary on carpeted surfaces or rugs in order to effectively clean them
Okay, maybe I was too harsh, I find it hard to detach myself from the "collecting point of view" But I feel very strongly about the fact that any home with rugs or carpets needs a brushroll head of some sort, with it be a turbo nozzle or an upright or a power nozzle, it makes such a difference. My friend recently brought a vax air cordless lift to replace his numatic Henry HVR200a. It made such a different, cleaning his small upstairs hallway filled the dirt bin to the top! As most people know the suction on the cordless machines aren't great, but boy, that agitation was brilliant! I'm not condoning straight suction machines, they are fine on hardfloors, but agitation is necessary on carpeted surfaces or rugs in order to effectively clean them
sebo_fan
Well-known member
In you experience yes, but in my mine, a carpet doesn't always need a rolling brush roll to keep it clean. Depends on the type and texture. Wool carpets only need gentle agitation, which is why I have more straight suction or delicate brush rolls. If I used an upright all of the time with an aggressive brush roll, I doubt I would have any carpet left!
You might be impressed with the Vax Air Cordless Lift from your friend, but I also own the original model without the Lift function. Mine removes dirt but it also removes a hell of a lot of wool as well.
It isn't the brush roll alone but rather the trio of suction channels Vax/TTI/Hoover have added to form the "Windtunnel" design. Don't be confused by actual dust and carpet pile. The Henry would have done a similar job had it been fitted with Numatic's Airobrush turbo brush floor head.
You're just more impressed by the fact that you can see what gets picked up.
You might be impressed with the Vax Air Cordless Lift from your friend, but I also own the original model without the Lift function. Mine removes dirt but it also removes a hell of a lot of wool as well.
It isn't the brush roll alone but rather the trio of suction channels Vax/TTI/Hoover have added to form the "Windtunnel" design. Don't be confused by actual dust and carpet pile. The Henry would have done a similar job had it been fitted with Numatic's Airobrush turbo brush floor head.
You're just more impressed by the fact that you can see what gets picked up.
hooverjedilord
Well-known member
You're just more impressed by the fact that you can see
No, not true. I prefer bagged vacuums to bagless, it's not the fact I can see the dirt that I like, it's the fact that it cleans better. The Henry didn't pick up hair, that's the truth, whereas the vax did. I am massively found of Numatic's Airo brush, i have several myself, I think they're great. It's not the carpet pile it picked up either, his carpet is woven carpet, meaning no piles as such.
No, not true. I prefer bagged vacuums to bagless, it's not the fact I can see the dirt that I like, it's the fact that it cleans better. The Henry didn't pick up hair, that's the truth, whereas the vax did. I am massively found of Numatic's Airo brush, i have several myself, I think they're great. It's not the carpet pile it picked up either, his carpet is woven carpet, meaning no piles as such.
sebo_fan
Well-known member
The bristles on the Vax Cordless air series aren't tough, they're not aggressive which is why I bought one as I have wool carpets. I like the fact that from time to time I can also use the brush roll on and off as this upright doesn't suck down hard on flooring unlike the original Vax Mach Air corded series.
Had your friend used a turbo brush to start off with, you might notice less of a difference to what the Vax picks up.
Had your friend used a turbo brush to start off with, you might notice less of a difference to what the Vax picks up.
hooverjedilord
Well-known member
Yeah, I think that would be the case, however he wanted a cordless vacuum, so he got the lift. It probably would have been easier for him to just have one of my aironozzles, but he prefers cordless.
sebo_fan
Well-known member
Im not entirely surprised Vax brought out another model. Im a bit surprised that they haven't upped the power. The suction through the hose on the original Cordless Air is pathetic. It will pick up bits of paper and toast crumbs and even a cob web. But its still not quite there yet.
Meanwhile LG have brought out an 80V cordless vac.
Meanwhile LG have brought out an 80V cordless vac.
