Whats your best?
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dysondestijl
Well-known member
Don't Electrolux make the powerlite anymore?
sebo_fan
Well-known member
Fleeting statements as usual, JM!
Id love to know where you get your info from Jamie. Instead of the usual fleeting statements, research the markets before and after Candy's take over. Or were you born then? No? Didn't think so.
For a start you're not one of those kids born in the 1980s like I was. Let me put you in the picture. Though households had Hoover vacuums, most uprights were the Junior, not the Senior and of the cylinder vacuums, most households had the Electrolux brand in the 1960s to the 1970s. A handful had Goblin, Rotel budget canister vacs and a few other brands - a few even had Hoover cylinder vacs - but rather than slate Electrolux for the brand it is now, it is worlds away from Hoover at present as Hoover lack a prestige label - Electrolux has AEG for that as well as other brands to cover its larger appliances.
Back in the 1970s Hoover enjoyed a bigger UK market share for their larger home appliances - and my family had 2 Keymatic washing machines, a CrystalJet Dishwasher (eventually replaced funnily enough by two Candy dishwashers), a Space Saver larder fridge, a Hoover twin tub, a Hoover Electron 800, A Hoover Electron 1300 and eventually the replacement model with dryer, the Hoover Ecologic 1300. Dont tell me about brand loyalty - my family were a big Hoover brand fan.
Electrolux on the other hand didn't have as big a larger appliance range than Hoover did - but one thing that the Swedish company seemed to excel in other than vacuums were their freezers - deep freezers and fridge freezers and Electrolux were one of the very few to offer a domestic compact deep freezer at a time when supermarkets started to stock in frozen food - well before Farmfoods etc started to come in. Hoover had freezers of course but they were constantly running into problems and Which reports also cite that Hoover took a rather long time to develop a proper fridge freezer of their own as Electrolux appeared to control the market in that area, alone.
Currently Jamie, although Electrolux have one bagged upright on the market under their own name (the Powerlite), they are in a better situation with the umbrella of brands they can off shoot appliances and models to. A bit like VW with their Skoda & Seat brands. Electrolux did make a rebadged Hilight upright model that John Lewis sold under their own name and appears seasonally at John Lewis stores despite not being on their website.
Another upright based on a commercial model in the U.S was also released a few years ago but sales did not take off because Electrolux began to heavily invest in AEG by then, to pass over prestige lines to AEG, as buyers began to take notice of the German brands in floor care such as Miele, SEBO & Bosch. Some call it canny or cheating when a brand that was originally German and now under control of Electrolux is passing off Chinese made vacuums with an AEG badge. But, in light of that, AEG offer far more bagged cylinder vacuums, much more I may add than what Hoover presently offer and AEG/Electrolux canisters have won awards and are very quiet in use - again, far more convenient than the noisy motors Hoover produce.
Electrolux's third line from the Zanussi brand is basically rebadging old stock and passing it out to those who are clearly on a budget. Though initially appearing as two bagless uprights, Zanussi have also offered two bagged cylinder vacuums, one of which has never been in the UK before under the Electrolux branding. It is available through catalogues and appears seasonally.
Another off shoot that Electrolux has supplied models to are the catalogue chain Littlewoods, where some Swan cylinder vacs are rebadged Eureka U.S models with the Swan catalogue brand.
Where their floorcare range is concerned, certainly as a bagged fan - I think Electrolux have a greater foot hold now over Hoover, don't you think?
However, Id love to know what you think Numatic are selling on a gimmick though? Numatic machines are not gimmicks and will always be far better at cleaning as well as better built than the commercial tub vacuum that Hoover didn't even produce themselves.
As for the Hoover Turbo Power upright - well, as you know already, it's not actually designed by Hoover.
Id love to know where you get your info from Jamie. Instead of the usual fleeting statements, research the markets before and after Candy's take over. Or were you born then? No? Didn't think so.
For a start you're not one of those kids born in the 1980s like I was. Let me put you in the picture. Though households had Hoover vacuums, most uprights were the Junior, not the Senior and of the cylinder vacuums, most households had the Electrolux brand in the 1960s to the 1970s. A handful had Goblin, Rotel budget canister vacs and a few other brands - a few even had Hoover cylinder vacs - but rather than slate Electrolux for the brand it is now, it is worlds away from Hoover at present as Hoover lack a prestige label - Electrolux has AEG for that as well as other brands to cover its larger appliances.
Back in the 1970s Hoover enjoyed a bigger UK market share for their larger home appliances - and my family had 2 Keymatic washing machines, a CrystalJet Dishwasher (eventually replaced funnily enough by two Candy dishwashers), a Space Saver larder fridge, a Hoover twin tub, a Hoover Electron 800, A Hoover Electron 1300 and eventually the replacement model with dryer, the Hoover Ecologic 1300. Dont tell me about brand loyalty - my family were a big Hoover brand fan.
Electrolux on the other hand didn't have as big a larger appliance range than Hoover did - but one thing that the Swedish company seemed to excel in other than vacuums were their freezers - deep freezers and fridge freezers and Electrolux were one of the very few to offer a domestic compact deep freezer at a time when supermarkets started to stock in frozen food - well before Farmfoods etc started to come in. Hoover had freezers of course but they were constantly running into problems and Which reports also cite that Hoover took a rather long time to develop a proper fridge freezer of their own as Electrolux appeared to control the market in that area, alone.
Currently Jamie, although Electrolux have one bagged upright on the market under their own name (the Powerlite), they are in a better situation with the umbrella of brands they can off shoot appliances and models to. A bit like VW with their Skoda & Seat brands. Electrolux did make a rebadged Hilight upright model that John Lewis sold under their own name and appears seasonally at John Lewis stores despite not being on their website.
Another upright based on a commercial model in the U.S was also released a few years ago but sales did not take off because Electrolux began to heavily invest in AEG by then, to pass over prestige lines to AEG, as buyers began to take notice of the German brands in floor care such as Miele, SEBO & Bosch. Some call it canny or cheating when a brand that was originally German and now under control of Electrolux is passing off Chinese made vacuums with an AEG badge. But, in light of that, AEG offer far more bagged cylinder vacuums, much more I may add than what Hoover presently offer and AEG/Electrolux canisters have won awards and are very quiet in use - again, far more convenient than the noisy motors Hoover produce.
Electrolux's third line from the Zanussi brand is basically rebadging old stock and passing it out to those who are clearly on a budget. Though initially appearing as two bagless uprights, Zanussi have also offered two bagged cylinder vacuums, one of which has never been in the UK before under the Electrolux branding. It is available through catalogues and appears seasonally.
Another off shoot that Electrolux has supplied models to are the catalogue chain Littlewoods, where some Swan cylinder vacs are rebadged Eureka U.S models with the Swan catalogue brand.
Where their floorcare range is concerned, certainly as a bagged fan - I think Electrolux have a greater foot hold now over Hoover, don't you think?
However, Id love to know what you think Numatic are selling on a gimmick though? Numatic machines are not gimmicks and will always be far better at cleaning as well as better built than the commercial tub vacuum that Hoover didn't even produce themselves.
As for the Hoover Turbo Power upright - well, as you know already, it's not actually designed by Hoover.
Firstly, I take your point that a lot of homes had Hoover Juniors (and I should have mentioned this) but the Seniors were also very popular too. No, I was not around at the time but my mother was and remembers seeing them in a lot of houses in the 70s and 80s.
Thank you for taking the time to write your statement, I take many points from it and have gained knowledge - thank you.
What do I mean by Numatic selling a gimmick? Well, I thought you'd have heard about the 3-D face? If that isn't a gimmick then what is? Also, the "Eco" branded models are also gimmicks in my opinion as they offer very little in the way of saving energy (the standard models are only 1200W) and cost more. Thirdly (and you will probably dispute this) - the "park" clip! Yes, I know it may be useful initially but how long do you really expect it to last before it snaps off, as they all do? Trust me, I've owned plenty cylinder vacuums in the past and the park clips last less than a year with moderate to heavy use.
I am not saying Numatic don't make damn good vacuum cleaners - you know from my previous posts that I'm a big Numatic fan, but I'm just disappointed to see them going down the gimmick road.
My saying they are old fashioned was not intended as an insult to them whatsoever, that was actually a positive and something I loved about Hoovers too.
As usual, I evidently did not explain myself clearly enough and for that I apologise, but for any lack of knowledge I have I will not apologise as the only way for one to gain knowledge is by learning from others. Believe it or not, I learn a lot from your posts as I do with many others.
Thank you for taking the time to write your statement, I take many points from it and have gained knowledge - thank you.
What do I mean by Numatic selling a gimmick? Well, I thought you'd have heard about the 3-D face? If that isn't a gimmick then what is? Also, the "Eco" branded models are also gimmicks in my opinion as they offer very little in the way of saving energy (the standard models are only 1200W) and cost more. Thirdly (and you will probably dispute this) - the "park" clip! Yes, I know it may be useful initially but how long do you really expect it to last before it snaps off, as they all do? Trust me, I've owned plenty cylinder vacuums in the past and the park clips last less than a year with moderate to heavy use.
I am not saying Numatic don't make damn good vacuum cleaners - you know from my previous posts that I'm a big Numatic fan, but I'm just disappointed to see them going down the gimmick road.
My saying they are old fashioned was not intended as an insult to them whatsoever, that was actually a positive and something I loved about Hoovers too.
As usual, I evidently did not explain myself clearly enough and for that I apologise, but for any lack of knowledge I have I will not apologise as the only way for one to gain knowledge is by learning from others. Believe it or not, I learn a lot from your posts as I do with many others.
vintagerepairer
Well-known member
Numatic
As I said before, a feature has to be seen as useful for the consumer, or cheaper for the manufacturer. When it comes to the 3-D face on the Numatic, I feel it must be a way of reducing manufacturing costs. The eco power setting is not a gimmick because it has a clear function, and also enables Numatic to make the claims it does about the amount of power it uses. Energy consumption is a big deal at the moment, and 1200 watts is still exceptionally high for someone of my age, if you consider that 750 watts for a cylinder was always thought of as being on the powerful side.
However, the parking clip is something which I think is a lost cause, especially as it relies on the correct floor tool to make it work. A generic replacement tool doesn't look like it will clip in place. However, hats-off to Numatic for trying to keep interest in their cleaner alive; they are struggling at the moment due to the cheap replica cleaners being purchased for the commercial cleaning market.
As I said before, a feature has to be seen as useful for the consumer, or cheaper for the manufacturer. When it comes to the 3-D face on the Numatic, I feel it must be a way of reducing manufacturing costs. The eco power setting is not a gimmick because it has a clear function, and also enables Numatic to make the claims it does about the amount of power it uses. Energy consumption is a big deal at the moment, and 1200 watts is still exceptionally high for someone of my age, if you consider that 750 watts for a cylinder was always thought of as being on the powerful side.
However, the parking clip is something which I think is a lost cause, especially as it relies on the correct floor tool to make it work. A generic replacement tool doesn't look like it will clip in place. However, hats-off to Numatic for trying to keep interest in their cleaner alive; they are struggling at the moment due to the cheap replica cleaners being purchased for the commercial cleaning market.
I totally understand why Numatic are doing what they are but in my mind they are gimmicks all the same - something to make the cleaner sell but that has no real purpose or use.
One thing I do find hypocritical is that people say the eco feature is good for the Henry yet they say the Autosense on the Hoover Turbopowers is "useless".
One thing I do find hypocritical is that people say the eco feature is good for the Henry yet they say the Autosense on the Hoover Turbopowers is "useless".
kirbymodel2c
Well-known member
Well...
Hi, Well for me...
Bagless - I'd say my Filter Queen Magestic 70th Anniversary
Bagged - Kirby Sentria... Well any of my Kirbys
Upright - Kirby Sentria... Well any of my Kirbys
Cylinder - Electrolux 345 Automatic
Handheld _ Ummm Kirby Vacuette or Dirt Devil Handy
Brand - KIRBY
)
Best suited - KIRBY)
James)
Hi, Well for me...
Bagless - I'd say my Filter Queen Magestic 70th Anniversary
Bagged - Kirby Sentria... Well any of my Kirbys
Upright - Kirby Sentria... Well any of my Kirbys
Cylinder - Electrolux 345 Automatic
Handheld _ Ummm Kirby Vacuette or Dirt Devil Handy
Brand - KIRBY
)Best suited - KIRBY
)James
)vintagerepairer
Well-known member
Jamie it's not hypercritical, its a fact. The autosense cleaner relied on the cleaner saying when it found grit, where as Numatic cleaners say "I have two settings, which one do YOU think you need?". For a good deal of cleaning jobs, the lower setting is fine.
turbo500
Well-known member
Autosense...
Well, I love the Numatic EcoSetting and I HATE the Hoover Autosense feature. If the Hoover was purely a 3-setting variable power, I would like it. The autosense with the constantly adjusting power is just stupid. I don't want areas of my carpet less clean than others! I want to be able to select the best power option for whatever I'm cleaning. The Numatic 2 speed motor is hardly a gimmick. Variable speed has been around since the 60's. And with the Numatic, the user can decide exactly what power they want to use unlike the Hoover where it is decided for them via a less than adequate method of having a microphone pick up the sound of dirt. Hardly all that efficient.
Well, I love the Numatic EcoSetting and I HATE the Hoover Autosense feature. If the Hoover was purely a 3-setting variable power, I would like it. The autosense with the constantly adjusting power is just stupid. I don't want areas of my carpet less clean than others! I want to be able to select the best power option for whatever I'm cleaning. The Numatic 2 speed motor is hardly a gimmick. Variable speed has been around since the 60's. And with the Numatic, the user can decide exactly what power they want to use unlike the Hoover where it is decided for them via a less than adequate method of having a microphone pick up the sound of dirt. Hardly all that efficient.
sebo_fan
Well-known member
Expectations and Experience are not the same.
JM - If you had any sense you'd realise that Numatic offered the 2 suction speed control for their domestic buyers rather than that just the bleed valve at the top. If you have owned a Numatic before then you'll know that the force of the suction is so strong at the top end that it is impossible to clean delicate furnishings and other areas. The low power setting on the Numatic is delicate enough to do curtains without pulling them off the rail as well as other furnishings.
So what if the 3D face is a gimmick - it isn't any less a gimmick than Hoover's tacky Jazz stickers for their current cheap bagless vacuum of the same name.
The park clip is a good idea. Until you actually have a model that has one and breaks off, by all means state your experience then.
Also the auto sense feature IS a gimmick on the Hoover - whilst it can be changed manually down to the lowest setting, it isn't long before the machine puts the motor up, which is downright annoying. You don't want a machine that does that when you're cleaning - unless of course you enjoy returning to the machine all the time to get the suction setting you want, not what the machine "senses" you to have.
JM - If you had any sense you'd realise that Numatic offered the 2 suction speed control for their domestic buyers rather than that just the bleed valve at the top. If you have owned a Numatic before then you'll know that the force of the suction is so strong at the top end that it is impossible to clean delicate furnishings and other areas. The low power setting on the Numatic is delicate enough to do curtains without pulling them off the rail as well as other furnishings.
So what if the 3D face is a gimmick - it isn't any less a gimmick than Hoover's tacky Jazz stickers for their current cheap bagless vacuum of the same name.
The park clip is a good idea. Until you actually have a model that has one and breaks off, by all means state your experience then.
Also the auto sense feature IS a gimmick on the Hoover - whilst it can be changed manually down to the lowest setting, it isn't long before the machine puts the motor up, which is downright annoying. You don't want a machine that does that when you're cleaning - unless of course you enjoy returning to the machine all the time to get the suction setting you want, not what the machine "senses" you to have.
It is still the same idea though that you can have two low power settings or increase it to maximum (Turbo Boost) if you wish.
You said with the Autosense some areas of the carpet are cleaner than others which may be true, but it is the same with the Eco feature on the Numatics also! If you clean some areas of the carpet Eco (as you end up doing if you forget to press the button after turning it on and don't want to bend down again) then switch it to Hi for others.
If the standard Numatic didn't already have a Hi/Lo switch I'd say it is a good idea but you really aren't getting anything new with the Eco models, except the fact the vacuum makes the decision to start in Lo instead of you.
Some users prefer to vacuum on full power all the time which they can do on the standard models, but with the Eco ones they have to press the boost button every time you turn it on.
You said with the Autosense some areas of the carpet are cleaner than others which may be true, but it is the same with the Eco feature on the Numatics also! If you clean some areas of the carpet Eco (as you end up doing if you forget to press the button after turning it on and don't want to bend down again) then switch it to Hi for others.
If the standard Numatic didn't already have a Hi/Lo switch I'd say it is a good idea but you really aren't getting anything new with the Eco models, except the fact the vacuum makes the decision to start in Lo instead of you.
Some users prefer to vacuum on full power all the time which they can do on the standard models, but with the Eco ones they have to press the boost button every time you turn it on.
"JM - If you had any sense you'd realise that Numatic offered the 2 suction speed control for their domestic buyers rather than that just the bleed valve at the top. If you have owned a Numatic before then you'll know that the force of the suction is so strong at the top end that it is impossible to clean delicate furnishings and other areas. The low power setting on the Numatic is delicate enough to do curtains without pulling them off the rail as well as other furnishings."
Actually Ryan I do own a Numatic and know fine well that the suction is too great for delicate furnishings on the Hi mode which is why you can turn it down to Lo when YOU want. With the Eco models it automatically starts on Lo when you might always want it to start in Hi (if you mainly used it for carpets etc...)
"So what if the 3D face is a gimmick - it isn't any less a gimmick than Hoover's tacky Jazz stickers for their current cheap bagless vacuum of the same name."
I don't see where that argument is going as I've never supported modern Hoovers, let alone the Jazz and would happily state all its useless gimmicks.
Actually Ryan I do own a Numatic and know fine well that the suction is too great for delicate furnishings on the Hi mode which is why you can turn it down to Lo when YOU want. With the Eco models it automatically starts on Lo when you might always want it to start in Hi (if you mainly used it for carpets etc...)
"So what if the 3D face is a gimmick - it isn't any less a gimmick than Hoover's tacky Jazz stickers for their current cheap bagless vacuum of the same name."
I don't see where that argument is going as I've never supported modern Hoovers, let alone the Jazz and would happily state all its useless gimmicks.
turbo500
Well-known member
but with the Eco ones they have to press the boost button ev
That is to encourage the user to use the machine in the low setting. Low power on the eco Henry's is perfectly adequate for most cleaning.
As for your comments comparing the Autosense and EcoSwitch, rubbish! You wouldn't use the low setting on a Numatic cleaner to vacuum a deep pile carpet - you would have it in high mode until you have finished and then go onto the next. For a low pile carpet, the low setting is fine and so you would consistently use that setting for that carpet. Therefore, your carpet is getting equally amounts of consistent cleaning, but the power selected can vary depending on how thick the pile or how dirty the carpet is.
I've found with the autosense that the low setting is too low and leaves too much behind. Lets not forget that pet hair DOES NOT increase the motor power on the autosense cleaners. Equally, I wouldn't want to run the cleaner in full power all the time. The middle setting is spot on, but this cannot be manually selected. That's why I prefer the base model T2's as they are like using an autosense cleaner in the middle setting.
It could just be me, but I am continually getting the impression that you deliberatly going out of your way to be difficult and finding negative things to comment on just for the sake of it. Have you ever tried not trying to irritate somebody? Might be an idea...
That is to encourage the user to use the machine in the low setting. Low power on the eco Henry's is perfectly adequate for most cleaning.
As for your comments comparing the Autosense and EcoSwitch, rubbish! You wouldn't use the low setting on a Numatic cleaner to vacuum a deep pile carpet - you would have it in high mode until you have finished and then go onto the next. For a low pile carpet, the low setting is fine and so you would consistently use that setting for that carpet. Therefore, your carpet is getting equally amounts of consistent cleaning, but the power selected can vary depending on how thick the pile or how dirty the carpet is.
I've found with the autosense that the low setting is too low and leaves too much behind. Lets not forget that pet hair DOES NOT increase the motor power on the autosense cleaners. Equally, I wouldn't want to run the cleaner in full power all the time. The middle setting is spot on, but this cannot be manually selected. That's why I prefer the base model T2's as they are like using an autosense cleaner in the middle setting.
It could just be me, but I am continually getting the impression that you deliberatly going out of your way to be difficult and finding negative things to comment on just for the sake of it. Have you ever tried not trying to irritate somebody? Might be an idea...
Believe it or not Chris but I do not try to irritate people. I just state my views as they come into my head.
My point is, if people really want to be economical (which is the kind of people the Eco models are trying to attract), they can save money by buying a standard model and turning it to Lo when they don't need the extra power. For someone who is truly wishing to save energy this task should not be any more difficult than turning a light switch on and off.
My point is, if people really want to be economical (which is the kind of people the Eco models are trying to attract), they can save money by buying a standard model and turning it to Lo when they don't need the extra power. For someone who is truly wishing to save energy this task should not be any more difficult than turning a light switch on and off.
sebo_fan
Well-known member
In your reply 23, you state quite clearly that "...I would say though that Numatic is very similar to Hoover in terms of selling strategy - the design is old fashioned and (unfortunately) the gimmicks are starting to appear..."
In view of that, we all know that your cherished machine is not sold anymore. So, con-currently the Numatic Henry is sold and is now sold with a gimmick. The closest model that is sold from Hoover is the Jazz, with its very similar concept of tarting up the exterior to make it nice. Get it now? You can't get away with passing off an old upright vacuum that Hoover used to make and compare it to a cylinder vacuum in any regard, either. Fair enough if Numatic still made an upright vacuum, which I think you would then find your Turbopower would be pitted into the ground!
Actually JM, I choose to either call myself Ryan or Nar, as it is split up from my real name, Na-ryan. Nar or Ryan will do quite happily, thanks.
As for "this argument," well it was a discussion. I feel that Chris makes good and valid points here as well as the fact that you seem to turn back to your Hoover Turbopower Autosense at every opportunity - it isn't sold anymore - it was good for its time as were a lot of other vacuum cleaners.
And so what if owners have to manually push the button to high if the machine goes on? Far less stress than fighting with the Autosense for the power level you want, not what the machine thinks you want! A simple push button to activate a setting is far simpler in the same way as pushing the pedal down on the 2 pedal floor head to clean a hard floor. Or as you say, switching a light on and off ...
In view of that, we all know that your cherished machine is not sold anymore. So, con-currently the Numatic Henry is sold and is now sold with a gimmick. The closest model that is sold from Hoover is the Jazz, with its very similar concept of tarting up the exterior to make it nice. Get it now? You can't get away with passing off an old upright vacuum that Hoover used to make and compare it to a cylinder vacuum in any regard, either. Fair enough if Numatic still made an upright vacuum, which I think you would then find your Turbopower would be pitted into the ground!
Actually JM, I choose to either call myself Ryan or Nar, as it is split up from my real name, Na-ryan. Nar or Ryan will do quite happily, thanks.
As for "this argument," well it was a discussion. I feel that Chris makes good and valid points here as well as the fact that you seem to turn back to your Hoover Turbopower Autosense at every opportunity - it isn't sold anymore - it was good for its time as were a lot of other vacuum cleaners.
And so what if owners have to manually push the button to high if the machine goes on? Far less stress than fighting with the Autosense for the power level you want, not what the machine thinks you want! A simple push button to activate a setting is far simpler in the same way as pushing the pedal down on the 2 pedal floor head to clean a hard floor. Or as you say, switching a light on and off ...
What I was meaning is that Numatic is getting how Hoover was for all those years with older styling and gimmicks. Of course what I see as a gimmick some people will see as a useful feature and vice versa - I was simply stating what my views and opinions are on the subject.
You don't agree with me, that's fine, I'm not asking you to I'm just stating what I feel - right or wrong.
You don't agree with me, that's fine, I'm not asking you to I'm just stating what I feel - right or wrong.
sebo_fan
Well-known member
Back up your opinion with experience or evidence.
I would completely agree with you IF Numatic were a wholly domestic market brand but I'm sorry - you're out of your depth. Numatic's styling is just fine because you seem to forget that Numatic were originally a commercial vacuum cleaner company - and still are.
Thus if you look at other competitor rivals in the commercial fields where commercial tub vacuums are concerned, at least Henry has a style even if it comes down to just a smiling face. IF Numatic were so concerned about the domestic market, they'd have more machines for that area alone against the commercial trade - which clearly, they don't. They cared enough to allow a park slot to be added as well as the hi/lo suction settings, and not to mention at one time the free tool bag you used to find alongside the vacuums. I applaud Numatic for the Henry model alone in being able to wind up the cord after use. You should try being an employee of a cleaning company who has to manually wind up a 12 metre cable on other vacuums after every room has been cleaned - you'll appreciate the wind up roller cable then, if your firm uses Henry vacuums.
If you are prepared to learn from others, you must be able to accept criticism as well as be prepared to hear what others have to say. If you can't accept that then you're not really learning anything. Agreeing with or disagreeing with is one thing but not using proper information or evidence to back up your theories to support your opinion is foolhardy to think others may not react to it.
I would completely agree with you IF Numatic were a wholly domestic market brand but I'm sorry - you're out of your depth. Numatic's styling is just fine because you seem to forget that Numatic were originally a commercial vacuum cleaner company - and still are.
Thus if you look at other competitor rivals in the commercial fields where commercial tub vacuums are concerned, at least Henry has a style even if it comes down to just a smiling face. IF Numatic were so concerned about the domestic market, they'd have more machines for that area alone against the commercial trade - which clearly, they don't. They cared enough to allow a park slot to be added as well as the hi/lo suction settings, and not to mention at one time the free tool bag you used to find alongside the vacuums. I applaud Numatic for the Henry model alone in being able to wind up the cord after use. You should try being an employee of a cleaning company who has to manually wind up a 12 metre cable on other vacuums after every room has been cleaned - you'll appreciate the wind up roller cable then, if your firm uses Henry vacuums.
If you are prepared to learn from others, you must be able to accept criticism as well as be prepared to hear what others have to say. If you can't accept that then you're not really learning anything. Agreeing with or disagreeing with is one thing but not using proper information or evidence to back up your theories to support your opinion is foolhardy to think others may not react to it.
AudibleNectar
Active member
- Joined
- May 27, 2013
- Messages
- 33
<a name="start_21370.239107">Whats your best of the following: </a>
<a name="start_21370.239107">
Bagless - Don't have one, aside from a Shop-Vac.</a>
<a name="start_21370.239107">
Bagged - Electrolux Super J for pure suction/airflow, Electrolux/Aerus Guardian for feature set</a>
<a name="start_21370.239107">
Upright - Electrolux/Aerus Guardian upright. This is the upright I always wish they would build. I always liked the ease of the Electrolux upright design, but always felt like a compromise because I knew the canisters were much stronger in airflow. The Guardian upright bridges that gap significantly, while keeping that nifty design that I really like. </a>
<a name="start_21370.239107">
Cylinder - (same as bagged) - Super J and Guardian</a>
<a name="start_21370.239107">
Handheld - not really a handheld but an attachment: The "Sidekick" attachment, which allows handheld convenience with full machine power. Another genius invention by Electrolux.</a>
<a name="start_21370.239107">
Brand - Electrolux/Aerus, of course
. While I can nit-pick a few of the design decisions they have made, I really like what they have done in the overall through the years. Every era has good machines in it. I see them much like my Toyota habit - anything that provides that kind of consistency of service is guaranteed my repeat business. And all of this with the full understanding that there are a number of really good vacs - and cars - out there.</a>
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One(s) that suit(s) you best </a>- As a "daily", the Guardian upright - because it's so EASY
. Love the convenience and the added power vs. the older uprights. For specialized duty - especially above floor and when I really want to give the carpets that extra "massage" - then I go to the Guardian canister. The Super J is still a fave for those tough attachment chores where max suction is desired. That vac really goes to work on the cobwebs that infect the joists in the basement, or those corners and baseboards in the less frequently visited areas, like behind the speakers and subwoofers.
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Bagless - Don't have one, aside from a Shop-Vac.</a>
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Bagged - Electrolux Super J for pure suction/airflow, Electrolux/Aerus Guardian for feature set</a>
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Upright - Electrolux/Aerus Guardian upright. This is the upright I always wish they would build. I always liked the ease of the Electrolux upright design, but always felt like a compromise because I knew the canisters were much stronger in airflow. The Guardian upright bridges that gap significantly, while keeping that nifty design that I really like. </a>
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Cylinder - (same as bagged) - Super J and Guardian</a>
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Handheld - not really a handheld but an attachment: The "Sidekick" attachment, which allows handheld convenience with full machine power. Another genius invention by Electrolux.</a>
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Brand - Electrolux/Aerus, of course
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One(s) that suit(s) you best </a>- As a "daily", the Guardian upright - because it's so EASY
ultimatevacman
Well-known member
Since I've gotten a lot more vacuums since my last post, I'm going to do an update 
Bagless: Dyson DC04
Bagged: Panasonic MC-E46
Upright: Panasonic MC-E46
Cylinder: Numatic James JVP180A
Handheld: I still don't own one
Brand: Numatic
Suits best: Numatic
Bagless: Dyson DC04
Bagged: Panasonic MC-E46
Upright: Panasonic MC-E46
Cylinder: Numatic James JVP180A
Handheld: I still don't own one
Brand: Numatic
Suits best: Numatic
rootcyclone
Well-known member
For me it's:
Best Bagless: Dyson DC14
Best Bagged: Numatic James, Henry, and Hetty.
Best Upright: Dyson DC25 Ball
Best Cylinder: Dyson DC02
Handheld: Don't have one but I'd say the Dyson DC34 is the best.
Best Brand: Dyson + Numatic
Suits best: Dyson
Best Bagless: Dyson DC14
Best Bagged: Numatic James, Henry, and Hetty.
Best Upright: Dyson DC25 Ball
Best Cylinder: Dyson DC02
Handheld: Don't have one but I'd say the Dyson DC34 is the best.
Best Brand: Dyson + Numatic
Suits best: Dyson
vegassucks
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jul 12, 2013
- Messages
- 199
Depends if you like eating dirt.
These Best Bagless: Dyson is the best, dose not mean their good
The Best Bagged. Miele S7 series any model with Hepa is great, Sebo X4, metal Royals
The Best. canister: Miele, Sebo, Rainbow and I am sure there are a few I am missing.
The Best vaccum is the one you use a least 3 time a week. If it is sitting in the closet it dose not matter how good it is.
These Best Bagless: Dyson is the best, dose not mean their good
The Best Bagged. Miele S7 series any model with Hepa is great, Sebo X4, metal Royals
The Best. canister: Miele, Sebo, Rainbow and I am sure there are a few I am missing.
The Best vaccum is the one you use a least 3 time a week. If it is sitting in the closet it dose not matter how good it is.
thekirbylover
Well-known member
Have you ever used the DC34?
Have you used a purepower which you say is awful, have you used all those dyson's you say are so bad
Have you used a purepower which you say is awful, have you used all those dyson's you say are so bad
dysondestijl
Well-known member
What a good question micheal!!
rootcyclone
Well-known member
In fact, yes, I have used a DC34 I find it very good on performance and for quick clean-ups!
I find it very good on performance and for quick clean-ups!
alexhoovers94
Well-known member
But Ryan..
On Hoovers Autosense you could technically have your low power like on Numatics Autosave...But then you could override Autosense completely and put it in it's highest power just like Autosave...Only difference with Autosense is you had an extra medium Power level...I like the Autosense and it was very ingenious for the early 90's!!
On Hoovers Autosense you could technically have your low power like on Numatics Autosave...But then you could override Autosense completely and put it in it's highest power just like Autosave...Only difference with Autosense is you had an extra medium Power level...I like the Autosense and it was very ingenious for the early 90's!!
sebo_fan
Well-known member
Do we need to go down this road again?
Yes Alex but as Chris pointed out in reply 37 and 42, the Autosense feature isn't really that convenient and technically isn't the same as reality!
A simpler slider suction or button presets of speeds is far easier and highly advantageous if your machine has it - no need to keep returning to get the suction speed you want rather than what the machine thinks you should have - and especially in light of the Hoover's original motor noise - increased whine to the ears.
Yes Alex but as Chris pointed out in reply 37 and 42, the Autosense feature isn't really that convenient and technically isn't the same as reality!
A simpler slider suction or button presets of speeds is far easier and highly advantageous if your machine has it - no need to keep returning to get the suction speed you want rather than what the machine thinks you should have - and especially in light of the Hoover's original motor noise - increased whine to the ears.
turbo500
Well-known member
The problem I have with the autosense is that it doesn't work. Very fine grit that the cleaner is meant to detect does not increase the motor power. Whatever debris being vacuum up HAS to make a noise when passing through the cleaner to have any sort of impact. A carpet caked in pet hair wouldn't increase the motor power either. Running the cleaner on max power constantly risks overheating the motor and using uncessecary power.
Personally, I don't want patches of my carpet cleaned more thoroughly than the rest, because some sound in the cleaner has triggered the "autosense" (I used inverted comma's because it wasn't actually sensing anything, it was just picking up noise).
The autosense feature was a completely unnecessary marketing gimmick used purely as a promotional tool and a feature to bump the price of the cleaner up and not to aid the performance of the machine. There was absolutely no difference in performance between the basic and autosense models. If anything, the basic models had far better pickup by running constantly in the "middle" setting, making the autosense models pointlessly expensive.
I'm not just picking on the Turbo 2 either. The Panasonic Icon had a similar feature (although this was optional and the cleaner could be used as a standard variable power cleaner if the user wished. Same with Miele "automatic" cleaners) that I didn't liked and I didn't like the Turbopower Boost either for similar reasons.
The autosave is essentially the same as using a 2 speed cleaner, but designed to demonstrate to the average user that you do not need full motor power for good cleaning results. You have to remember, we're not the "average user" and we know this already. To use my sister as an example, she bought an autosave Hetty about 2 years ago and was amazed that it did such a good job on low power. She only ever has to boost the power to clean the thicker carpet she has in her bedroom, meaning the other 4 rooms in her house only ever need to be vacuumed with low power. The fact of the matter is, the autosave feature does what it is meant to do - it automatically saves energy. But the control of the power is still in the hands of the user and is completely optional.
Personally, I don't want patches of my carpet cleaned more thoroughly than the rest, because some sound in the cleaner has triggered the "autosense" (I used inverted comma's because it wasn't actually sensing anything, it was just picking up noise).
The autosense feature was a completely unnecessary marketing gimmick used purely as a promotional tool and a feature to bump the price of the cleaner up and not to aid the performance of the machine. There was absolutely no difference in performance between the basic and autosense models. If anything, the basic models had far better pickup by running constantly in the "middle" setting, making the autosense models pointlessly expensive.
I'm not just picking on the Turbo 2 either. The Panasonic Icon had a similar feature (although this was optional and the cleaner could be used as a standard variable power cleaner if the user wished. Same with Miele "automatic" cleaners) that I didn't liked and I didn't like the Turbopower Boost either for similar reasons.
The autosave is essentially the same as using a 2 speed cleaner, but designed to demonstrate to the average user that you do not need full motor power for good cleaning results. You have to remember, we're not the "average user" and we know this already. To use my sister as an example, she bought an autosave Hetty about 2 years ago and was amazed that it did such a good job on low power. She only ever has to boost the power to clean the thicker carpet she has in her bedroom, meaning the other 4 rooms in her house only ever need to be vacuumed with low power. The fact of the matter is, the autosave feature does what it is meant to do - it automatically saves energy. But the control of the power is still in the hands of the user and is completely optional.
alexhoovers94
Well-known member
"You wouldn't use the low setting on a Numatic cleaner to vacuum a deep pile carpet - you would have it in high mode" Chris, you wouldn't use a Numatic cleaner to vacuum a deep pile carpet AT ALL!!
[this post was last edited: 7/30/2013-09:55]
[this post was last edited: 7/30/2013-09:55]
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