Whats your best?

[vintagerepairer]

Hoo better?

The name Hoover used to have an immeasurable amount of good will behind it, as indeed did Electrolux. The difference between the two brands was that Hoover sat on it's laurels and relied heavily gimmicks, variety and of course it's loyal customer base to make the sales, whilst Electrolux always seemed more sophisticated, with a much, much smaller product range, and always offering something more tangible for the customer. Also, I felt that with Hoover the consumer was buying into the 'belief' that it was high quality, whereas with Electrolux that quality could be seen and felt for oneself. This is why both brands were able to do so very well, but as has been pointed out, there were a good deal of other much cheaper vacuum cleaners on sale, many of which had features which aped those of top-end brands.

Moulinex, to use a name which has already been mooted- was one such excellent example of a cleaner which did such, and as I said once before, I know of a customer who went and bought two Moulinex Master cleaners for just a little more than she had intended to pay for one Hoover Turbopower machine. Her reasons for doing so was that last Hoover cleaner had not lived up to expectation and had cost her a lot of money; when it broke down it was her intention to buy another for downstairs and have the original cleaner repaired for upstairs use. Upon seeing the Moulinex cleaner, she opted for two of those and no repair on her original cleaner. Some say buy cheap, buy twice, but when one gets the chance to acquire much more than half of something else for around half the price, there is much temptation to do so.

I was always surprised not to see more Moulinex cleaners brought in for repair. I can only conclude they were either not that popular (which I very much doubt is the case), or they rarely broke down (again I feel not likely), or perhaps more often was the case that the owner of such a cleaner had a low expectation of it from the outset and was unwilling to spend money repairing a budget product.

 

[blackheart]

Miss the most?

I had a black and decker canister vac with a powerhead it was kind of a maroon color with a variable speed switch on the main body of it i think it may have been eureka built due to the brushroll which had a set up like the VG2 only in plastic i have never seen another one of those since.

 

[sebo_fan]

VR well said!

Hoover did indeed sit back on their laurels and offered one gimmick after another. Especially around Xmas time with their 1940s to 1950s ads that can be seen on You Tube and far later than the Air Miles campaign that effectively split the U.S company from Hoover "Europe." However, in Scotland and because the Hoover brand was alive and kicking from the Cambuslang factory, Hoover were probably thee most popular brand. My gran was a fan of Hoover as were my parents right up until the 1990s.

But looking back I think it had a lot to do with parts and spares availability too. Buying dust bags or belts for a Hoover Junior/Senior and others was far more common place than the equivalent cylinders and uprights by Electrolux.

 

[turbo500]

Lets not forget, the Moulinex actually came well before the Turbopower, as did the Hitachi CV50D and both cleaners offer features that were first's for Hoover with Turbopowers such as the hardbag design, auto cord rewind, air fresheners etc. Electrolux were also producing hardbag and far more practical cleaners from 1971.

I do love Hoover, but for a company with such big success, they were always 1 step behind everyone else. You bought into the name "Hoover" and not necessarily a quality product.

 

[jmurray01]

You make some very good points Benny. From what I can tell, Hoover made a fantastic vacuum cleaner (albeit always a step behind others in terms of modernisation), advertised heavily with some gimmicks and let the name sell the product.

Electrolux on the other hand made more advanced vacuums which were ahead of their time which appealed to those wishing to procure a modern cleaner with the latest features.

Both brands made vacuum cleaners which would stand up to the test of time and do a very good job of cleaning your home, but one was more "traditional" in its approach and the other more "with the times".

To verify that statement you only have to look at Hoover's main upright from 1970 and Electroluxe's equivalent - the Hoover Senior and Electrolux 500.

Even I won't deny the 500 was far more advanced and in terms of carpet and above floor cleaning - it ran rings around the Senior with it's poorly designed pan converter for the hose.

But despite the obvious advantage to owning an Electrolux, people still went out and bought the Senior because it had the Hoover badge on it and that (back then) stood for quality and reliability.

For the markets they targeted, Hoover and Electrolux were both outstanding manufacturers.

Nowadays the only thing separating Hoover and Electrolux is who can make the cheapest vacuum cleaner, because after all, that's what people look for these days - price and little more.

I would say though that Numatic is very similar to Hoover in terms of selling strategy - the design is old fashioned and (unfortunately) the gimmicks are starting to appear.

Sadly times can only move forward, and we must move with them and whatever they bring (thinner plastic and higher wattage motors probably).

 

[ultraperformer]

Jamie

Not all Electrolux models are poor the one's they stick the AEG logo on in the UK are well made and perform well.

Dan

 

[jmurray01]

I take your point but I was referring to actual Electrolux branded products.

Right now I don't believe Lux even make a bagged unit, though I could be wrong.

 

[ultraperformer]

Off the top of my head only the UltraOne but again its got the AEG badge on it now lol Uprights I don't think there are any

Dan

 

[vintagerepairer]

The Electrolux 500 was a spin-off from the Hoover Convertible. Yet another example of a Hoover cleaner which was loaded with gimmicks, albeit a very effective system. I am sure Hoover never used a clean-fan system on any UK upright after this, until the Turbopower 2 in 1992. Electrolux seized the opportunity which Hoover failed to maximize, and thus the 500 was born. I suppose Hoover could have argued that their dirty-fan cleaners were selling well and performed to the standard required, and in that respect I understand their business logic.

But as has been said already, the Moulinex and Hitachi upright cleaners were on sale long before the Hoover Turbopower ever was. Even Goblin were entering the hardbag market long before the 1970's had ended. Hoover's answer to this was the problematic Starlight (not forgetting a colour choice!) which was no match for the 500 Electrolux and indeed was latterly termed "Junior Deluxe", making it appear as a bottom model. The Convertible was of course another option, but it was very expensive and not that convenient to use. When it came to hard-bag cleaners, until the Turbopower arrived, I do think Hoover practically handed the market share on a plate to the competitors.

 

[ralph123]

my best

Bagless - Rainbow
Bagged - Riccar/Simplicity
Upright - Simplicity 7 series
Cylinder - Lux
Handheld - Black and Decker
Brand - Simplicity
One(s) that suit(s) you best - Simplicity

I think Simplicity/Riccar offers the best bang for the buck and as a bonus is American made. I like the 7 series Simplicity upright. I think the Freedom 9 pound uprights are great. At least based on Consumer Reports testing, the Freedom cleans carpeting as well as a Kirby, but it's a lot easier to push and handle.

 

[jmurray01]

How ironic - Hoover (unwittingly) gave Electrolux the idea for a modern vacuum cleaner!

 

[dysondestijl]

Don't Electrolux make the powerlite anymore?

 

[sebo_fan]

Fleeting statements as usual, JM!

Id love to know where you get your info from Jamie. Instead of the usual fleeting statements, research the markets before and after Candy's take over. Or were you born then? No? Didn't think so.

For a start you're not one of those kids born in the 1980s like I was. Let me put you in the picture. Though households had Hoover vacuums, most uprights were the Junior, not the Senior and of the cylinder vacuums, most households had the Electrolux brand in the 1960s to the 1970s. A handful had Goblin, Rotel budget canister vacs and a few other brands - a few even had Hoover cylinder vacs - but rather than slate Electrolux for the brand it is now, it is worlds away from Hoover at present as Hoover lack a prestige label - Electrolux has AEG for that as well as other brands to cover its larger appliances.

Back in the 1970s Hoover enjoyed a bigger UK market share for their larger home appliances - and my family had 2 Keymatic washing machines, a CrystalJet Dishwasher (eventually replaced funnily enough by two Candy dishwashers), a Space Saver larder fridge, a Hoover twin tub, a Hoover Electron 800, A Hoover Electron 1300 and eventually the replacement model with dryer, the Hoover Ecologic 1300. Dont tell me about brand loyalty - my family were a big Hoover brand fan.

Electrolux on the other hand didn't have as big a larger appliance range than Hoover did - but one thing that the Swedish company seemed to excel in other than vacuums were their freezers - deep freezers and fridge freezers and Electrolux were one of the very few to offer a domestic compact deep freezer at a time when supermarkets started to stock in frozen food - well before Farmfoods etc started to come in. Hoover had freezers of course but they were constantly running into problems and Which reports also cite that Hoover took a rather long time to develop a proper fridge freezer of their own as Electrolux appeared to control the market in that area, alone.

Currently Jamie, although Electrolux have one bagged upright on the market under their own name (the Powerlite), they are in a better situation with the umbrella of brands they can off shoot appliances and models to. A bit like VW with their Skoda & Seat brands. Electrolux did make a rebadged Hilight upright model that John Lewis sold under their own name and appears seasonally at John Lewis stores despite not being on their website.

Another upright based on a commercial model in the U.S was also released a few years ago but sales did not take off because Electrolux began to heavily invest in AEG by then, to pass over prestige lines to AEG, as buyers began to take notice of the German brands in floor care such as Miele, SEBO & Bosch. Some call it canny or cheating when a brand that was originally German and now under control of Electrolux is passing off Chinese made vacuums with an AEG badge. But, in light of that, AEG offer far more bagged cylinder vacuums, much more I may add than what Hoover presently offer and AEG/Electrolux canisters have won awards and are very quiet in use - again, far more convenient than the noisy motors Hoover produce.

Electrolux's third line from the Zanussi brand is basically rebadging old stock and passing it out to those who are clearly on a budget. Though initially appearing as two bagless uprights, Zanussi have also offered two bagged cylinder vacuums, one of which has never been in the UK before under the Electrolux branding. It is available through catalogues and appears seasonally.

Another off shoot that Electrolux has supplied models to are the catalogue chain Littlewoods, where some Swan cylinder vacs are rebadged Eureka U.S models with the Swan catalogue brand.

Where their floorcare range is concerned, certainly as a bagged fan - I think Electrolux have a greater foot hold now over Hoover, don't you think?

However, Id love to know what you think Numatic are selling on a gimmick though? Numatic machines are not gimmicks and will always be far better at cleaning as well as better built than the commercial tub vacuum that Hoover didn't even produce themselves.

As for the Hoover Turbo Power upright - well, as you know already, it's not actually designed by Hoover.

 

[jmurray01]

Firstly, I take your point that a lot of homes had Hoover Juniors (and I should have mentioned this) but the Seniors were also very popular too. No, I was not around at the time but my mother was and remembers seeing them in a lot of houses in the 70s and 80s.

Thank you for taking the time to write your statement, I take many points from it and have gained knowledge - thank you.

What do I mean by Numatic selling a gimmick? Well, I thought you'd have heard about the 3-D face? If that isn't a gimmick then what is? Also, the "Eco" branded models are also gimmicks in my opinion as they offer very little in the way of saving energy (the standard models are only 1200W) and cost more. Thirdly (and you will probably dispute this) - the "park" clip! Yes, I know it may be useful initially but how long do you really expect it to last before it snaps off, as they all do? Trust me, I've owned plenty cylinder vacuums in the past and the park clips last less than a year with moderate to heavy use.

I am not saying Numatic don't make damn good vacuum cleaners - you know from my previous posts that I'm a big Numatic fan, but I'm just disappointed to see them going down the gimmick road.

My saying they are old fashioned was not intended as an insult to them whatsoever, that was actually a positive and something I loved about Hoovers too.

As usual, I evidently did not explain myself clearly enough and for that I apologise, but for any lack of knowledge I have I will not apologise as the only way for one to gain knowledge is by learning from others. Believe it or not, I learn a lot from your posts as I do with many others.

 

[vintagerepairer]

Numatic

As I said before, a feature has to be seen as useful for the consumer, or cheaper for the manufacturer. When it comes to the 3-D face on the Numatic, I feel it must be a way of reducing manufacturing costs. The eco power setting is not a gimmick because it has a clear function, and also enables Numatic to make the claims it does about the amount of power it uses. Energy consumption is a big deal at the moment, and 1200 watts is still exceptionally high for someone of my age, if you consider that 750 watts for a cylinder was always thought of as being on the powerful side.

However, the parking clip is something which I think is a lost cause, especially as it relies on the correct floor tool to make it work. A generic replacement tool doesn't look like it will clip in place. However, hats-off to Numatic for trying to keep interest in their cleaner alive; they are struggling at the moment due to the cheap replica cleaners being purchased for the commercial cleaning market.

 

[jmurray01]

I totally understand why Numatic are doing what they are but in my mind they are gimmicks all the same - something to make the cleaner sell but that has no real purpose or use.

One thing I do find hypocritical is that people say the eco feature is good for the Henry yet they say the Autosense on the Hoover Turbopowers is "useless".

 

[kirbymodel2c]

Well...

Hi, Well for me...

Bagless - I'd say my Filter Queen Magestic 70th Anniversary

Bagged - Kirby Sentria... Well any of my Kirbys

Upright - Kirby Sentria... Well any of my Kirbys

Cylinder - Electrolux 345 Automatic

Handheld _ Ummm Kirby Vacuette or Dirt Devil Handy

Brand - KIRBY)

Best suited - KIRBY)

James)

 

[vintagerepairer]

Jamie it's not hypercritical, its a fact. The autosense cleaner relied on the cleaner saying when it found grit, where as Numatic cleaners say "I have two settings, which one do YOU think you need?". For a good deal of cleaning jobs, the lower setting is fine.

 

[turbo500]

Autosense...

Well, I love the Numatic EcoSetting and I HATE the Hoover Autosense feature. If the Hoover was purely a 3-setting variable power, I would like it. The autosense with the constantly adjusting power is just stupid. I don't want areas of my carpet less clean than others! I want to be able to select the best power option for whatever I'm cleaning. The Numatic 2 speed motor is hardly a gimmick. Variable speed has been around since the 60's. And with the Numatic, the user can decide exactly what power they want to use unlike the Hoover where it is decided for them via a less than adequate method of having a microphone pick up the sound of dirt. Hardly all that efficient.

 

[sebo_fan]

Expectations and Experience are not the same.

JM - If you had any sense you'd realise that Numatic offered the 2 suction speed control for their domestic buyers rather than that just the bleed valve at the top. If you have owned a Numatic before then you'll know that the force of the suction is so strong at the top end that it is impossible to clean delicate furnishings and other areas. The low power setting on the Numatic is delicate enough to do curtains without pulling them off the rail as well as other furnishings.

So what if the 3D face is a gimmick - it isn't any less a gimmick than Hoover's tacky Jazz stickers for their current cheap bagless vacuum of the same name.

The park clip is a good idea. Until you actually have a model that has one and breaks off, by all means state your experience then.

Also the auto sense feature IS a gimmick on the Hoover - whilst it can be changed manually down to the lowest setting, it isn't long before the machine puts the motor up, which is downright annoying. You don't want a machine that does that when you're cleaning - unless of course you enjoy returning to the machine all the time to get the suction setting you want, not what the machine "senses" you to have.