Well there goes the Turbo Power as Hoover's flagship model!

[sebo_fan]

Oh yeah, Vax definitely copied Dyson on a few levels with the Mach Air. There's an old thread on here somewhere regarding the Dyson and the Vax crevice tool design - aside from the brand embossed on the plastic, it was clear who Vax looked at for inspiration when they looked for a 3 in 1 tool. I dont know if its similar to the DC18, I'd say more to the DC24. See a thread about the Vax Mach Air (now archived) on here http://www.vacuumland.org/cgi-bin/TD/TD-VIEWTHREAD.cgi?7460


 


Also the QVC Total special had a much darker burgundy red compared to the "commercial upright Dyson Red," (as I call it) that Vax used in the Total Home model.


 


It is indeed a super vacuum compared to what Vax used to sell, although it was very similar in feel to my very old and much missed basic upright only Vax Quicklite V-045 with its paper pleated cone (Dirt Devil U.S Dynamite.) And of course those horrid Swift uprights that actually have big thick plastic handles and hopeless front hoses that you have to manually attach at the front if you want to use the darn hose and tools - those machines were a pain to get under low furniture and the hose connection at the front often broke. 


 


I know the X series can be a faff without the brush roll stopping - but then I just used to remove the entire brush roll if I ever used the upright hose & tools in extended use compared to using a cylinder vacuum. I think Sebo's slightly-improved-2012 370 commercial upright now stops the brush roll when the upright locks up, so it's only a matter of time before Sebo apply the same to the X.

 

[madabouthoovers]

"and hopeless front hoses that you have to manually attach at the front if you want to use the darn hose and tools - those machines were a pain to get under low furniture and the hose connection at the front often broke."

Reminds me of another well known brand - Kirby, but at least Kirby's tools are a bit better quality? I only use my Kirby as a carpet vacuum - too much of a faff to get the hose out and take the front off, and then the worry about sucking anything up that might damage the fan.

 

[madabouthoovers]

At the end of the day, the Sebo X series is a very dated design now, but I still like using my X4, and in its heyday, it was the most advanced cleaner available. They are very reliable which is why they still sell well, and they are idiot-proof, so dizzy housewives cant get the motor overheated by trying to use them with a clog or full bag. If they did update the X series, then I think they could incorporate some kind of clutch to stop the brushroll into the speed sensor assembly, as the idea is there already. The clutch is a useful addition to the multi-floor dysons, and stops users damaging the cable when using the tools and hose and accidentally placing the cleaner head on the cable. I see so many Dyson non clutch models with the power cords damaged when users have accidently let the cleaner sit on the cable when using the hose and tools.

 

[sebo_fan]

Yep, the X is dated, but it is a commercial based upright first and foremost, as is Sebo's main expertise and similar to Numatic's Henry and company, both don't see much of a point in updating everything in one go, but a little update here and there. Plus the company is privately owned, so major updates to models are very few and far between. I guess in Sebo's eyes, if it ain't wrong, don't fix it seems to work best for them. They may have an outdated design but I live for that brush bar release button and auto sensor head- so handy and crucial for cleaning pet hairs when they wind around the roller as well as finger tip gliding on the handle - I've yet to find another upright on the market that can be steered by a mere pinch of the fingers on the back of the handle. 

 

[madabouthoovers]

I have to admit the X4 is very easy to push around - so light that I often think - "is it actually doing anything?" but I know it is as the carpet is cleaner and I have cats so pet hairs get everywhere. My Kirby with tech drive is light to move around, but not as manouverable as the Sebo. I find the Henry with the Airobrush head is very easy to move about and great for the pet hairs, and it has the advantage that the head can get into nooks and crannies that the uprights cant get into. Also Miele's S6 with turbine head is as good as the Henry, with the added bonus of variable power control - something that would be good on the X4 as the Felix has it. Variable power control is useful for using the tools and the only upright aside from the Felix that has it these days seems to be the Miele S7. It only seems to be an option on the bagged cleaners as multicyclonic models need full power to work the filtration properly.

 

[jmurray01]

Vax is never a brand I've been drawn to to be honest, but I must say I am impressed by the suction my 2012 Vax Performance C91PF1BT cylinder has.

It must be somewhere near 300AW by my reckoning, it is just insane AND BAGLESS.

But the two bad things about that Vax is the fact the bin has the MAX mark right at the bottom so after cleaning a few really dirty rooms you'd have to empty the bin since there is hardly any dirt capacity.

Secondly, it is 1800W which I find too high and the fact the suction is so high just proves my point - Vax could have easily afforded to lower it to AT LEAST 1400W (which is the highest wattage I will see as acceptable) and still have enough suction to match the competitors, but hey-ho.

 

[madabouthoovers]

Why did you buy that Vax then Jamie - its bagless which you hate, its not multicyclonic so the filters need constant maintenance, its power hungry which goes against your grain, and its buy a brand that you dont think much of? just wondering? - surely another contender to be sold off to make way for another nice power efficient dirty fan cleaner at a more modest 400W?

 

[jmurray01]

Well you are dead right, I would never have spent a penny on one but the only reason I have it is because it was free (when I went to pick up my also free Dyson DC04 - now sold - the person had that too).

I'm actually trying to sell it, so desperately I've listed it for £10!

I know, I must be mad but one less bagless is one less worry.

 

[madabouthoovers]

The problem is now that people have worked out that those cheap single cyclonic cleaners are nothing but bother and constant clogged filters, companies cant even give them away - theres so many of those things on Ebay now for next to nothing, people want multi cyclonic cleaners now, or Henrys - amazing how well the Henry sells these days after people get sick of their cheap bagless cleaners and consign them all the rubbish pile.

 

[sebo_fan]

Actually Steve, buyers haven't worked out that single cyclone vacuums are rubbish - there's still a market for them and there's still a healthy amount of reviews for the cheap products. The only ones who have worked out that the vacuums are rubbish as the ones who have been let down - either by the performance of the vacuum - but also of consumer expectation - cue maintenance - not many buyers/owners check the filters regularly both in bagless or bagged vacuums, hence you'll see quite a few being chucked out all because a bag is clogged up, or the hose or the machine etc. Buyers just make the excuse that because vacuums are cheaper to buy, they'll just replace the old one with a new cheap vacuum rather than repairing the vacuum themselves or having the model repaired as the cost price of repair may be higher than buying a budget priced vacuum cheaper than the cost repair.


 


 

 

[jmurray01]

I'll say it again - disposable society.

And manufacturers are LOVING it.

 

[madabouthoovers]

I am seeing more reviews though of people dissapointed that they have to keep cleaning the filters after each room or suction is lost - the Hoover Alyx for example, or any other that uses the central pleated filters inside the dirt canister - where the dirt just clogs the filter instead of filling the bin. That was the biggest problem of Hoover's "The One" cleaner - poor filtration and motor burnouts through overheating. Why do you think it is that the Henry has never been so popular - I've lost count of the reviewers who say "So sick of this cleaner I threw it out and bought a Henry".
Vacuum manufacturers do themselves no favours at all by producing poorly designed high maintenance cleaners like the Hoover Alyx, and the Vax Centrix etc.
Whats the point in it being cheap, if its not fit for purpose?

 

[sebo_fan]

Yes, but your idea of something being fit for purpose may not be the same purpose that brands produce their vacuums to. Take my orange Vax Mach Air for example - an absolutely brilliant little vacuum but with a wasted effort with the standard 1.1 metre hose on board. Vax said it was 1.5 metres - not by MY tape measure though - and it pulls the vacuum over if you use the handle pipe and suction pipe added - despite the fact that the hose is located right at the bottom of the vacuum at the back.  The user manual does indicate that you have to hold the vacuum at the same time, but with that And the handle and the hose snapping back due to the force of suction, it isn't my idea of efficiency or fit for purpose. 


 


Same with the Sebo Felix - it has a short hose by its design but measures 3 metres when fully stretched out - also indicated in the user manual that the machine has to have a hand on the machine to steady it - but I find it is better to manage with than going through the palaver of having to remove the hose at the back of the Vax, then unlock the handle, then add it to the hose for more reach and then on top of that having to hold the vacuum at the same time to minimise it falling over. 


 


In the defence of the Felix though, a lot of new owners moan about the hose and the small bag but they are judging it on the expensive cost price, seeing past the fact that the Felix is a small to medium upright with the capability of going hand held, a design that I don't really like, but at least you can still do it. Sebo's Felix is really more or less, a direct rival to the Vorwerk. 

 

[madabouthoovers]

The Felix is a very modern looking cleaner in comparison with the X series, and it has a more versatile theme to it, as you say, its able to be converted to a handheld, a floor polisher (fitting the Disco head) and a lightweight vacuum. It addressed issues with the X series such as it having variable power, being lighter to carry, and looking more hip and trendy with the various exhaust filters available to customise it with. I didnt like it at first, but have warmed to it as its a triumph of design. I have bidded on a couple on Ebay, but they go for more than I want to pay at the moment, on average they are selling for £80 - £140 for a decent one second hand. I got a good deal on X4 at £160 and it was only used a couple of times by an old woman who didnt like it and bought a Henry instead as she was used to canisters rather than uprights.
The only thing that I dont like about the Felix is it doesnt have the auto height adjuster motor - but then I suppose it would have added weight and bulk to the floorhead.

 

[sebo_fan]

Well, *and Im pretty sure the member is on here - there is a seller on EBAY UK who was selling a Felix with the old, heavy auto adjusting sensor head, the ET-H that originally came with the K3 Premium canister. I've tried it on my own Felix since I have a K3 Premium - but it doesn't allow the Felix to stand up properly and it's a lot heavier despite the auto adjustment. It isn't a good match for the Felix since it also lacks a brush stop roll function. Due to its bag capacity and smaller size, the Felix is in no way a replacement for the X series; Sebo just want to retain the X as a classic upright vacuum and to reaffirm its simpler operation.


 


Since discovering Sebo some time ago I've often recommended the cheaper X1.1 - it is far better priced and there's not much of a difference between the X1.1 and X4 other than extra tools, which as you know you can readily buy and sometimes cheaply off the internet. Sebo UK also sell tools and stuff quite competitively. The white X1.1 also hides scratches much better than a dark plastic colour. Shame the "Euronics" red model has a higher price though.

 

[madabouthoovers]

I like the red X1.1, nice colour, but my favourite is the one I went for, the X4 Extra in navy with yello trim, its a lovely looking cleaner even if it is regarded as stalwart these days. Its quite quiet as well as vacs go, but I need the turbine mini head for it and i cant get one cheap on Ebay as Sebo uses an odd size (37mm or something like that) fitting, so all my other turbo brushes in 32mm and 35mm wont fit it. Its annoying really, that becuase I have cats and they get hairs all over the sofas etc I cant clean them with the Sebo, and have to get the Dyson out or the Miele S7, or the Henry etc to use the turbo brush.
I wish they would standardise the tool size fitment across all makes - but they wont do it due to greed for profit.

 

[sebo_fan]

Well, the way to look at it is, if you buy another Sebo in the future, at least you'll be able to use all the tools on the other models, as well as the brush roll from the X into the Felix. 


 


Don't quite know what the prices on EBay UK are, but if they are anything like Amazon UK at £45 to £50 that's too expensive. Get yourself to John Lewis - they're £29-95!!



http://www.johnlewis.com/230962328/Product.aspx

 

[madabouthoovers]

I'm a tightwad lol - thats too much to pay - I want one for under a tenner lol second hand, its just a matter of time till one comes up that I can get for a bargain - I dont pay full price for ANY of my vacuums or accessories - the shops can get stuffed, I want them on special offer or with subtantial amounts knocked off the price. The most I paid for any of my vacs was £270 and that was for an ex-display S7510 in immaculate condition never used, and I insisted on a turbo brush being thrown in and a pack of bags - which I got as well!
We are living in hard times and the sooner shops realise this the better - some are already offering excellent deals, like Argos, but Comet need to wake up and start offering better deals and keeping more stock in the stores instead of home delivery only, as I like to see the cleaner in the flesh before deciding on it.

 

[sebo_fan]

Ugh. I see your point but to be honest I like a pet hair brush to be brand new, so that it is clean. I've bought second hand tools in the past for my Hoover Turbopowers etc but they stank and had to be cleaned out. It is a small price to pay - because most sellers don't go far enough to clean/wipe the fan impellers in the turbine. If it has been used to constantly clean up pet hair, it will stink - and Febreeze or Neutradol can only go so far!

 

[vintagerepairer]

Comet are only one packet of dustbags away from going under. They've recently been sold-off yet again. It's no wonder they are streamlining their services. Times may be hard, of this there is little doubt, but I for one have never seen goods on sale (not just electrical goods) for the low prices they are today. I agree that shops need to get more footfall for their own sake, but the public is literally voting with it's feet and buying more and more online. Dropping prices further is not the answer. When the high street as we know it dies out (and it will), it will largely be due to people who chose not to use it. Sometimes our problems are closer to home than we realise.