Vintage Kirby design problems

[farmvet01]

I don’t mean to attack the design of the old Kirbys, but I do need to vent some frustrations with some particular design aspects of the 500 model series that seem inherently problematic. If any of you have opinions, views, or solutions, please respond as I would like to hear your views on the subject.

Particularly, that round plastic belt lifter never seems to want to fit tight or rotate in a smooth manner; every one I have come across has felt like it was just going to break off due to the asymmetrical forces of the belt being stretched by a rotating body and finger. Furthermore, this era of belt lifters presents a place for vacuum leakage, more so than successive designs. I am going to a hardware store to try to find and install one of those very thin plastic friction reducing washers between the outside of the nozzle and the inner surface of the exterior plastic belt lifter body. This, in my mind, will reduce or minimize the friction between the plastic belt lifter and aluminum nozzle.

Also, another frustrating design is that of the “crows-feet” on the back of the nozzle and the interface between the nozzle and the entrance of the fan case. It just seems like it allows too much play and makes it difficult for a tight fit over the round seal. In the particular case that I am experiencing right now, I plan on ordering a new o-ring seal; this is likely to make it tighter.

Let me know if any of you have any wisdom about these issues.

 

[kirby519]

The Crows feet you refer to are the "attaching lugs. Those are probibly worn from years of usage and have opened up to an oblong shape as opposed to a round shape that just fits over the attaching bar. The bar itself could be worn or bent out of shape causing the loose fit at the fan case.

As for the belt lifter dirt and grit can cause it to turn hard as well as the belt tension. I don't think you will have enough room to put a nylon spacer in between the belt lifer and nozzle from a hardware store. In reality you don't loose that much suction or air flow from that area. On the back side of the belt lifter there are two or three tabs that secure it to the nozzle casing. Make sure those aren't bent in to far towards the nozzle casing causing to much friction and or to loose. I beleive there is a spacer ring for that belt lifter but would need to get it from a vacuum repair shop or online vacuum parts supplier. Been a long time since I took apart the belt lifter on my 519 model. There is a small stop screw in the nozzle by the belt lifter so that the lifter can be completely removed for inspection/repair.

 

[cb123]

Try Trimming you some window gasket material of the black adhesive foam persuasion kind to fit the channel on your fan housing. That will fix it pretty much forever. Now in regards to the belt lifter - I believe the aerodynamics are as such that a negative pressure is created and any performance reduction do to vacuum lose would be negligible. I would be careful about putting a washer of any kind betwixt your belt lifter and dye cast - on the event of mortally damaging your flanges - hence - no more belt lifter.

 

[kirbyclassiciii]

For that matter, you should always handle with care the belt lifter on any Kirby. The soft belt #159056 might do you good if you think you're having trouble getting the #301291 knurled belt to catch the hook.

~Ben

 

[farmvet01]

The attaching lugs are not appreciably worn in this machine. In fact, this 519 is in excellent condition. Also, the corresponding bar is not bent, crooked or worn. I was merely comparing the old machines to the current Generation series design!

The tabs on the back of the belt lifter...I checked them and they are parallel to the surface of the nozzle...they are not too loose or tight. The design simply does not lend itself to the minimizing of friction! Do you really think I would criticize the DESIGN without first making sure the operating parts were clean and well-adjusted? Compare the old belt lifter design to the newer Generation series. The newer design deals with friction better and has contact on the inside of the nozzle in a complete circle, not just in three points. Also, there is a spring washer that helps keep the interface between the lifter and the nozzle consistent and flat, helping to prevent binding as it is rotated...and minimizing leakage of air.

 

[farmvet01]

Here is a picture of the bar. As you can see, it is not bent. I was criticizing these design aspects based on much experience with many 500 series machines!

 

[super-sweeper]

Please, Do keep in mind...

<span style="font-family: terminal, monaco;">This is a Vacuum Cleaner from the early 1950s, </span><span style="text-decoration: underline;">Many</span> Improvements have been made over the Decades since the Model 519 was launched, such as a better Belt lifter design (4 Revisions took place from 519-G series, with an improved belt lifter design appearing on models Dual-Sanitronic, Classic/Tradition, Heritage, And Generation series), Paper filter bags, along with other improvements. 


 


When this machine was introduced, The Belt Lifter, the one you are over criticizing too much, was an amazing mechanism found exclusively on Kirby vacuum cleaners, And they <span style="text-decoration: underline;">Did Not</span> Have Knurled belts, Knurled Belts were introduced at the start of the Generation series, and <span style="text-decoration: underline;">Designed for the Gerneration-Sentria Models.</span> The Knurled belt puts too much pressure on the pre-generation Kirby Models, Especially the 500 series. As  Ben (KirbyClassicIII) Has Stated above, You should install a soft belt, along with be careful with a plastic belt lifter. Turn slowly and with care.


 


As for the issue of suction leakage, the amount lost is hardly measurable, Why does it make such a huge difference that the newer model Kirby can retain that itsy-bitsy amount of suction possible lost by the 519?


 


I apologize for my rant, But Simply find this un-heard-of  type of over-criticism absurd.


 


-Alex.

 

[cb123]

It's kind of like comparing a sopwith camel to a 747, or the Apollo space capsule to the shuttle program, but the stubborn fact remains - it will still lift a rug with its direct suction capabilities. Even with all of its perceived inferiorities it still outperforms most other vacuum cleaners. Giving its age that's most remarkable. That's my humble opinion, and we all know what they say about opinions.

 

[super-sweeper]

Thank you CB123,

That was the point I was trying to illustrate, This model is elder, and a marvel for it's time, Yet it still it better than the crap they sell at the big-box stores!


 


The little issues you criticize are nothing compared to the issues found on modern-day cleaners. Would you rather be rattling off to an automated costumer service line about your Bissell (Or half the stuff in the floor-care isle) exploding 3 days After you purchased it, or be cleaning merrily with a precision-built Kirby for eternity?

 

[kirbyclassiciii]

Alex (super-sweeper),

I wonder if the flat (polisher/Reno Group) #301289 belt can be used behind the ball-bearing brush rolls on the pre-G models?

I know in the original 1981 printing of the Kirby Heritage Convenience Group instruction book, the #301279 flat belt (today's #301289) could be used for both the rug nozzle as well as the Miracle Head and Rug Renovator (the two Reno Group components) but not the Handi-Butler nor the Turbo Brush accessories.

~Ben

 

[super-sweeper]

Are you sure?

I've used a modern soft Kirby belt in my 511's Handi-Butler, and it works fine?


 


 

 

[kirbyclassiciii]

Alex,

Yes, the 159056 soft belt will work on the Handi-Butler, but only until the H-B design was changed midway through 518 sales. From there on, a specially-designed belt (#405058) must be used for it.

So, in your case, your choice of H-B belt is OK for the model you're speaking of.

~Ben

 

[kirbyrama]

Age of 519 Model

The 519 model Kirby was manufactured in 1959-60---however still very old for a vacuum cleaner.

 

[super-sweeper]

Thanks,

I see how that could work. why they would change the belt style, though?


 


-Alex.

 

[farmvet01]

I am sorry I came across that way. In all actuality, I agree with all of your responses. I STILL believe that Kirby is one of the best machines made...and has been one of the best throughout the past decades. "Over criticizing" would be my claiming that Kirby makes junk just because of a few minor issues. I am definitely not saying anything close to that. No brand manufactures perfection! Geez...all I was doing was demonstrating frustration about my antique machine and that I would like it to be better in certain respects. Please understand that I have nine Kirbys and love them better than any of the other brands...especially the new big-box stores' plastic junk offerings!

What I actually wanted to know was if anyone out there had some simple, non-invasive solutions to these admittedly minor issues! To be clear, I agree with the over-arching idea that nothing in the practical world is perfect. Finally, I don't expect perfection and know we will never attain it, but I- as many others do- strive for it. Please forgive my criticisms.

 

[cb123]

I here pardon you from your past transgression, but don't ever let it happen again. For Kirby is the best vacuum ever made by vile human hands! Sounds crazy don't it? Just kidding, but it is one of the very best. Now about trying to attain perfection. You will only drive yourself crazy, but aren't we all a little crazy - makes one to think - Oh, why bother...who cares anyway. Have fun for tomorrow will be another day...maybe.

 

[farmvet01]

How about it, "super-sweeper"? Did you get my APOLOGY???

 

[super-sweeper]

Yes, I did...

To whom it may concern, I was off doing house-work when you replied, not everyone can get onto vacuumland and check for updates at the spur of the moment.


 


Yes, I accept your apology.


 


-Alex.

 

[KIRBYDUDE]

belt lifter sticky

the best thing i've found is just to lube it with some 3in1 oil. this helps dramatacly. you'll be surprised how much it helps i encourage you to try it first before you go tearing it apart.