Vacuum cleaner pick up tests on carpet

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Well Yes, Alex's Argument Has Been Debunked

By well proven methodologies that can be easily duplicated. Thanks for your bagless version of this proof Mike.

And I do hope that all the readers also fully understand that the shoe picture above denotes my general activity shoes. Things like moving the grass (see the green?), working in a muddy yard, changing oil/rotating tires, general lounging around, etc. I have many other pairs/brands for my formalized activities.

I'm not particularly worried about "taste or fashion" when performing dirt pickup Alex. How many ditch diggers wear a suit?

"Or basic understanding of a simple household appliance." <-- Nice false statement again. Keep 'em coming and I (and others) will keep debunking them.

Bill
 
Hmm

Well, I've been watching many videos, and Alex's videos seem to be more helpful and entertaining, because of the variety of vacuums he works on. It's very cool to see what it would be like in the back of a vacuum shop (even if it isn't) because I'm hoping to get a job at my local shop, and its basically virtual training. VacLab's replies may be correct, may not be (I don't read English essays very much) but they always come out in a malicious tone. I feel like the majority of people are bullying Alex on this site, though he was the one to work in multiple vacuum shops. I'm not sure why everybody is taking VacLab's side. Also, I got my first royal yesterday, and its great. Easy to push, very similar to my Dirt Devils, and the same charm as a generation series Kirby. It's a prince, but the upright, so a model 782. Haven't been able to use it yet because old owner used a Kirby belt instead of a royal belt. Going to the vacuum shop today.

Your friend, Garrett
 
@regularrett69

I am someone who actually supports everyone who is interested in vacuums and knows about them. I always try to avoid any conflicts and I have liked a lot of Alex videos and vaclab videos.
Problem is when he turned against us who do these measured tests like me (vacuum tests) and vaclab.
Would you like if someone made video just for you how wrong you do things?
Even when you know the proper testing methods and another don't.
Just think about it.
 
@vaclab
As I've come to expect from you Bill massive amounts of arrogance.
Take your blood pressure medication for this one.

You have yet to mention the fact you don't have a laboratory. Nor do you even use enough vacuums for control let alone scientific experiment.
You don't have a laboratory you're not a scientist.
No vacuum YouTuber is to my knowledge.
Again you haven't debunked anything except for a little ego masturbation and sharing you're flawed ideas.
Again I've seen some of your videos you struggle hard to turn on some machines.
I knew your ego couldn't resist the bait. You live in a small hick town which has inflated your ego out of proportion.

Yes I make fun of you for being out of shape with cankles and bad shoes.
I'm sure you filter out plenty of comments on that on YouTube.

@regularrett69 @vacfan198 @lesinutah @beagledad @gottahaveahoover @blackheart @huskyvacs @mike811

Thanks for watching & commenting here!
 
Master

Its commonly known 10000 hours of an activity/ trade you would be considered a master.
If vacuum devil has 17 years working at 2000 hours a year it's safe to say he is a master vacuum technician.
I earned my bachelor's degree in 2009. If I went 3 more if have a master's degree. Once you start upper level classes teachers are similar. Similar in the sense over 75% have a master's or doctor's degree. In my field 30 of the 120 credit hour classes were considered master level courses. My degree is in technology management.
I'm highly educated and decorated but boasting comes across as insecurity to me. I don't need to tell anyone of my accomplishments to be happy. I also don't need a million views on you tube either.
I wouldn't boast how qualified to prove a point. I'm betting a good majority of members are as educated as you and me.
Les
 
My Final Comments On This Thread

Everyone should see how Alex self-destructs and attacks everything except the actual claims when he is proven wrong. I will always attempt to correct faulty premises and flat out lies, especially when it's fairly obvious. Some people have no interest in the truth, which is sad.

(Raw Bag/Bin Pickup) MINUS (Error Rate) = Cleaned Pickup <-- Fourth grade Math

As I've come to expect from you Bill massive amounts of arrogance. <--The arrogance is yours, not mine.
Take your blood pressure medication for this one. <-- Are you my doctor? How dare you suggest anything from a medical standpoint!

You have yet to mention the fact you don't have a laboratory. Nor do you even use enough vacuums for control let alone scientific experiment. <-- Are you blind? My lab is in my basement. You can see all kinds of equipment in a wide variety of videos. The fact that you don’t like my lab makes you quite prejudiced, doesn’t it? I created an engineering/testing lab in 1990 BTW. Added vacuum oriented equipment in 2015. I've even designed and built high precision test equipment.

One well maintained vacuum is all you need. Car And Driver performs all their tests with ONE VEHICLE and only after it’s fully broken in. Additional samples usually skew the data by a small percentage. I’ve always said a 5% or even a 10% MoE is normal, depending on the test type. No one should run out and buy a machine for such a small improvement.

You don't have a laboratory you're not a scientist. <-- See my qualifications in the above post. Also Google what the generic term “scientist” means.

No vacuum YouTuber is to my knowledge. <-- You don’t understand what proper testing is or what a scientist is either.

Again you haven't debunked anything except for a little ego masturbation and sharing you're flawed ideas. <-- Nothing like sinking down to sexual references, eh? And please Google what proper debunking methods are as you are completely unfamiliar with them.

Again I've seen some of your videos you struggle hard to turn on some machines. <-- Hey! I have wide (4E) feet and tiny Bissell pedals make my foot slip off periodically. Not relevant to testing though, right?

I knew your ego couldn't resist the bait. You live in a small hick town which has inflated your ego out of proportion. <-- You implied you were waiting for a response from me in the original post? What did you think I would do when confronted with your massively erroneous conclusions? Oh, and now my small hick town somehow makes me sub-human? You are possibly the most biased/prejudiced person I know of!

Yes I make fun of you for being out of shape with cankles and bad shoes. <-- Your medical observations are hilarious! You think yourself a doctor? FYI, my ankles are the perfect size and my BMI does not put me into the overweight category. Get your eyes checked.

I'm sure you filter out plenty of comments on that on YouTube. <-- Yet another lie. To date, my block list is around 1.5%, mostly due to foul language, just like in your videos from a few years ago.

SUMMARY: My claim/criticism is that Alex is unfamiliar with this concept
(Raw Bag/Bin Pickup) MINUS (Error Rate) = Cleaned Pickup

Alex's Counter Claims (no proper rebuttal given of course). VacLab is arrogant, has high blood pressure, has no lab, not a scientist, debunked ego masturbation, has flawed ideas, struggles to turn on vacuums, lives in a hick town, has cankles, and bad shoes. Yep, sounds like proper rebuttal...not!

Go nuts people! It's yet another Alex versus Bill thread. Enjoy!
 
@vaclab Bill

As disgusting in the video. You don't have a big enough sample size non a scientific lab. IRB dose us YouTubers do not.

Unfortunately it is evident from your videos that something's not right health-wise I wish you well!

There's no degree for testing vacuums. 🤔
Nobody's ever asked what my credentials might be?

There goes the saying "big fish in a small pond"
I'm sure it has to do with why our egos so inflated.
As soon as you leave your small pond and go into the ocean that is the internet you are a small flounder fish.

I can tell from the conversating I've seen you do over the years, that analogies and paraphrasing tend to go over your head. It's okay.
When I posted the video I mentioned that you would get upset and not understand the point.
I will outline it quickly.
*Vacuum Pick up test are not done in a scientific manner on YouTube.
*Nobody buys enough of the same machine to conduct a proper scientific experiment.
*Bill is easily betable & has bad taste in shoes 😉
*I love vacuum people and people who YouTube about vacuums. I even like talking to Bill.

vacuumdevil-2020061722181706092_1.jpg
 
After all this talk.
Measured high accuracy carpet pick up test STILL IS the best way to know how vacuums really performs.
Error rate in these kind of tests (if done properly) is very small.
I mean compare this to the visual carpet inspection how vacuum picked up.
That doesn't tell anything how vacuum actually performs and how much it REALLY picks up.
Visual inspection works on the hard floors, but NOT on the carpets.
There is A LOT of effort to do measured carpet pick up test.
This is just a common sense and I find it funny how some people don't understand it.
 
@vacfan1982 I suggested that when I saw started like a year or two ago.
He didn't want to do it then. I doubt he'd want to do it now ,But I'd be open to doing a livestream.


@mike811 I definitely agree it could be a good metric if done properly in a laboratory with multiple machines on a carpet that doesn't shed.
Like what we see in the European rating system or CRI has done.
But shouldn't really be considered anything accurate when done by a putz on YouTube.
 
@vacuumdevil

"On a carpet that doesn't shed"

0.02 grams of carpet fibers is not going to ruin the test.
Normally I get less than that and my scale doesn't show anything when I put carpet fiber "ball" on it.
Test must be done on insanely clean carpet. Otherwise it doesn't work.
Weighted carpet pick up tests still is by far the best testing method.
Not perfect, but still very accurate.
 
These tests will not be as accurate as in a Lab but they can still give you a good idea of the performance of a vacuum cleaner.

Ah well if Bill doesn't want to do it that's his prerogative. If you could both keep it civil I think it would be interesting.
 
@vacfan1982

"These tests will not be as accurate as in a Lab but they can still give you a good idea of the performance of a vacuum cleaner."

I agree with you.
Amount of work what goes in to these test is VERY high.
I use my living room carpet so my problem is to get it insanely clean.
I don't have special carpet for testing.
If someone saw me pre vacuuming testing area they would think that I am crazy 😂
I mean doing 50+ passes from all the directions before testing + making sure that bin, hoses, brushroll, brushroll housing, etc is clean.
But end result is rewarding. Unless I mess up the test, Then I have to start from the beginning 😣😂
 
@mike811
First off I would have sent this as a personal message but I cannot find your Instagram I know we've talked on there before. Please DM me.
also I'm hope you aware that somebody tried to steal your name on YouTube by the name of " vacuum test" it's really messing with your SEO.

With that out of the way.
I agree perhaps in a proper laboratory it could be accurate I still don't put much accuracy into amateur testing.
However I will say your videos and testing are far more thorough & consistent than a lot that I've seen.
I would also like to point out that the type of carpet you have and types of vacuums are very different than what we get here in the United States.
 
Vacuum Pick Up Tests

Guys,


In my days in Teamsters Local 25 in Boston and working for lux for a decade here is what I learned. A good vacuum used often cleans better than a great vacuum used only occasionally. A degree in mathematics and physics is probably the most fun I would ever have with my clothes on lol. Still enjoy your videos and those from Alex.

So we know there is a margin of error in sampling. I am not sure why one would test vacuum pick up on carpet (apartment style) that sheds worse than an Old English Sheep dog? Probably some new Shaw carpet tiles vacuumed prior to testing with a clean bag and a good vacuum like a Marin/236 would be a good starting point. Some before and after vacuum weighing and a measured amount of sand distributed evenly over the carpet tiles with a drop spreader would guarantee even material distribution. Before sand and after sand pickup weighing of carpet tiles less error gives the soil removal percentage. Before and after weighing of equipment should fall in the generally accepted range of mid eighties say for the SEB 236 for instance after the error factor is figured in correct? I would not expect to see 100% or even 90% soil removal for that matter. I would expect better performance on Shaw tiles vs Sheepdog apartment carpet though.

What do you guys think of the XRF method of using X ray to measure soil removal in carpet as does CRI in rating vacuum performance?

We know that good performing nozzles (Sebo-Windsor, Rainbow, Miele/Wessel, Lindhaus, and Lux/Tristar with 48011 green HPO and Kirby) run around 75-85% soil removal in best case, real world testing? Interesting about the Oreck XL-21 and stiff bristles. Lux used an electron microscope to show the degradation of opaque carpet fibers as a result of power nozzle roller brushes that are too stiff. There is a lot of Karastan carpeting in multi million dollar homes in Boston vacuumed with Oreck. Buy Karastan by the yard and throw it away by the pound I guess. The damage to the carpet fiber ends can be significant depending on which roller your machine has.


As far as soil pick up if I have not vacuumed for a while my go to is the Avalir. In the same number of uses in the house it just picks up more dirt than my other machines. At the same it weighs one third of Miss Saigon who is probably in line to become Mrs. Funeral Director so not appropriate for every user I guess. Never forget the fishing boats docking in Gloucester Massachusetts and the deck hand wails a Kirby on a rope into the harbor use as an anchor. Great performance but the user experience leaves a bit to be desired.

Brian
 
Livestream

Alex,

As far back as 2018, I remember you asking how to contact me but you claimed you were unable to locate my (public since 2014) email address. You have now made at least two claims regarding a possible email exchange initiated by yourself. I have never received any communication from you at any time.

Since you don't approve of any testing I do and you don't test, tell me what's the point of a livestream?

Let me also be clear: before we would commence any appreciable communication, you would have some apologizing to do for your outrageous claims/comments as noted above by the deleted post.

Bill
 
I

Deleted my post. I'm not about to argue with Vaclab. It was also biased what I posted.
It takes 10k hours to be considered a master at a activity. Vacuum devil in my guess has 34k-36k hours as a vacuum tech/business owner.
My dang phone has a floating keyboard right now as I post....
Les
 

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