This is to all Oreck fans...

[ohio_tuec]

So why can't they make a large motor with lower amperage that will do the same job and last a long time? I see nothing wrong with the Kirby 500 series motors. The only thing I've ever replaced on one of those is brushes. Unfortunately, most vacuums out there today boast 12 amp motors, not because they're better, but mainly because they drain alot of current, and burn out in a very short period of time.

 

[compactc9]

I agree with you there. I prefer large slower turning motors with a lower amp rating. The reason for high amp motors is basically because people have been lead o believe that higher amps mean more power, which is not true.

 

[piano_god]

Single motor uprights utilizing cogged belts do exist...

Such as the Sebo X series and Lindhaus Activa.

 

[tolivac]

I AM CORRECT in saying larger motors can last longer-its very simple-In vacuums such as Royal Everlast,Classic,any Kirby sereies,These motors are turning SLOWER than the Oreck and under less load.At one vacuum repair place out here-he has PILES of burned out Oreck motors.The Oreck belt DOES NOT always break if it hits something that jams the brush roll.the circuit breaker like on a Riccar can give that protection.Compact upright vacuums such as the Oreck,Riccar,these motors are smaller and turning at very high speeds to get any amount of air movement from the smaller fans on these.I am sceptical that any compact upright vacuum is going to last 20 years under normal usage.Then we would have the issue of fans and fancases on these machines.their tiny fans spinning at higher speeds than other uprights certianly face disaster if they hit a coin or nail.Yes-even with careful vacuum users this can happen--you can't always see where you are vacuuming.and these compact uprights can go into and under places where you may not be able to see what you are picking up.The Oreck is a nice little vacuum-but I can't see it lasting 20 years like a Kirby,Royal metal,etc.At both vacuum shops here-in their repair piles are MANY junked Orecks.Some are only a few years old.Only two stores here carry them-an appliance store here in Greeville and another in Kinston-thats where I tried the XL21.

 

[robgwisdala]

For the price of two Oreck XL21s, You could get a Kirby Sentria with attachments/shampooer.
The Kirby Sentria outcleans and outlasts the Oreck XL21.

 

[tolivac]

I own both a Kirby Sentria and 3 Orecks-the Kirby is the definte winner.And the Kirby doesn't need the compact canister with it.My Oreck canister just sits in a closet-a useless machine.The Oreck upright is a more useful machine than its companion mini-canister vacuum.If you presently own a Kirby machine-you can buy the Sentria at 50% off its regular price-then you can get the Kirby for only a few dollars more than the Oreck-and with kirby's Tech Drive-its even easier to push-pull than the Oreck.The Oreck is easier to lift and carry though.For the price of the Oreck-one could get the Sebo "Felix"a more powerful machine-and it can be used like a canister.

 

[robgwisdala]

Kenmore/Bissell ProLite
6 amp motor
twin suction fans
160 cfm
about 4000 rpm brushroll speed
double brush brushroll
Riccar SupraLite/Simplicity Freedom
5.5 amp motor
single suction fan
106 cfm
about 4000 rpm brushroll speed
double brush brushroll
Oreck XL21 upright
4 amp motor
single suction fan
unknown cfm
5600 rpm brushroll speed
double brush brushroll
Oreck XL upright
4 amp motor
single suction fan
unknown cfm
6500 rpm brushroll speed
double brush brushroll

 

[robgwisdala]

The Kenmore/Bissell ProLite is no longer available. However, It is available under the Powr-Flite/CFR names.
The Riccar SupraLite/Simplicity Freedom is now available under the Hoover name.

 

[robgwisdala]

Kirby G3/G4/G5/G6/Ultimate G/Diamond Edition/Sentria
6 amps floor/7 amps hose
109 cfm floor/120 cfm hose
single suction fan
about 4000 rpm brushroll speed
double brush brushroll aka QuadraSweep brushroll

 

[tolivac]

I do have a vacuum cleaner that has a 12A motor-and can last a long time--how bout up to 50yrs-that is the NSS M1 "Pig" vacuum cleaner.The suction fan in these is almost 8" diameter and turns at a leisurely 8,000 RPM and can provide up to almost 200CFM airflow thru a 2"hose-1.5" hose will gve 150CFM.Sadly they aren't marketed to households-but commercially.I have three in my collection-and one of them is almost 30Yrs old and going strong.Replaced the brushes and bearings.and these jobs are EASY to do.The brushes on its large communtator are about 5/8" wide-can last for 2500Hrs.Ordinary vacuum motor brush specs are 500Hrs.

 

[ian88]

Kevlar? made up? its only the material that helmets/torso armour used by the army are made of

Ian

 

[ohio_tuec]

So you mean to say you use your NSS M1 "Pig" vacuum as your daily driver? I guess you like a vacuum that wastes electricity. I just can't see a need for a vacuum that uses all that amperage, and does the same job. You're right, in saying alot of Orecks will not last 20 years - those are the ones that get used and ABUSED. I've even had Orecks come in that vacuumed up dog sh--. I even pulled a thong out of an Oreck once. If you really tried, you could destroy an NSS "Pig" vacuum as well. However, I've seen many Orecks that have lasted the 20 years and then some. Like I say, the one I use on a regular basis is 22 years old, still has the original motor, fan, and fan housing and works great. I've even got some of the original XL-4000's that are 40 years old and still work.
"For the price of two Oreck XL-21's, you could get a Kirby Sentria with attachments/shampooer" - yes you're right about that. And that's fine for you and me, but most people today do not want to be bother schlepping a Kirby up and down stairs. When the Tech Drive is off, the unit is extremely heavy to transport, and how many people do you know of who actually use the shampooer? I just found a Kirby G5 thrown out in Jamaica, Queens with the shampooer never touched. Alot of people have difficulty even converting the vacuum to tool use. I've gotten several Kirby Generation 3's (among others) as trade-ins on new XL-21's.
Interesting story about the metaxalloy "kevlar" fans. Oreck switched to metaxalloy in 1998 for the new Millenium 2000 series machines. I was invited to the factory to watch an interesting demonstration where they shot through the fan with a 12-gauge shotgun. It left a clean hole in the fan, but the fan itself did not warp whatsoever. So even if a coin or a nail does hit the fan, worst that will happen is the fan housing breaks. If you're going to be vacuuming up such materials, you really should use a shop vac, or at the very least, the Buster B that came with the upright.

 

[robgwisdala]

Kirby switched to Kevlar fans starting with the G5.

 

[robgwisdala]

I have three Kirbys:
Kirby G3 with attachments/shampooer
Kirby Ultimate G Diamond Edition with attachments/shampooer
Kirby Sentria with attachments/shampooer
I have a carpet cleaning business. I charge $20 per room.
I use shampoo carpets with all of my Kirbys. I use Kirby Allergen Control Lavender scent carpet shampoo. I use Kirby Micron Magic 99.7% filtration bags.

 

[robgwisdala]

What is the cfms on the Oreck XL21 upright/Oreck XL upright?

 

[robgwisdala]

I would like to have a cleaning contest pitting the Kirby Sentria against the Oreck XL21 upright/Oreck XL upright.

 

[tolivac]

Interesting about the Oreck fan-withstanding a gunshot-However at the real world vac places I help out at on weekends-they are replacing "Metaxalloy"fans at a routine rate.One has a bucket full of the Oreck fans he has replaced-and fancases as well.Usually the fancase goes with the fan.You need to really understand how universal motors work---On a motor like the NSS--it is very LIGHTLY loaded and turns at a low speed.It is not trying to turn a roller brush.I do have a separate powernozzle for the "Pig" would pit it against an Oreck anyday.The NSS has about 3 times the airflow of an Oreck.Just becuase you see a label on the motor nameplate of "12"A on the vacuum cleaner-that doesn't always mean the motor is drawing that much in actual use.That really means the current the motor could be loaded to in a laboratory test and work continuously without overheating or burning up.For most canister vacuums including the NSS-the motor is not being loaded to that value.Therefore it does run cooler.It is hard to feel any temp rise in the exhaust air as it runs.The Model M is one of my drivers.Use it for the really tough jobs.I would have to try harder to blow out a Model M as opposed to the Oreck.I think its interesting you still have some older Orecks that still work.you take care of your machines-in the "real" world others do not.thats why they don't last as long.Same with me-I take better care than most.Yes,I do use my Kirby shampooers.Have shampooers for most of mine in my collection.Lately I have been using "host" type cleaners for my carpets.these work really well and will not wet carpets.Oh on tough fans-would again give it to the "pig" hence the name-I used mine for a remodeling job cleanup at one of my friends house-did far better than a noisey Sears shop Vac.and beleive it or not the M1 fan ate J-box slugs,cable staples,even small nails and scraps of wire and came back for more.Was surprized to find these in the bag.they were all bent up or over.the blades on an M1 fan are over quarter in thick alluminum alloy.Never seen one of those broken.-nor its fan case-the fancase is lined with steel.And for less than the price of the two Orecks you can get an NSS "Pig"I use my pig for garage cleanups,cleaning out other vacuums,the paper shredder,and after the shopsmiths.and Oh yes I do use my Orecks on occasions as well.they are sort of fun to use.And yes they do better than the dysons I have in my collection.(DC07 and Dyson "Ball")The Dyson "Ball" vac has twin motors-one for the brush and other for suction.Will admit the little Oreck does better.And yes Dyson Vs Oreck-the Oreck is easier to push thanks to its "Helping Hand" woodplane style handle.the Orecks smaller head and body can get under things better than a Dyson.And yes I watch what I let the Oreck or any other fan first vac pick up.Well one time I let my freind try the M1-he did pick up a sock with it-the sock got into the M1 fan.Did stop it-and immiedately tripped the line breaker.got the sock out and the machine was fine!He was vacuuming under his bed-socks always hide in those places!!

 

[luxboy]

High amp vs. low amp

Tolivac..

That is absolutely true.. just because a motor is 12 amps doesn't mean it is actually pulling 12 amps. For example, when I run my Miele on the 1200 watt setting, even with the powernozzle it is probably only pulling about 8 amps. You would have to jam the powernozzle motor and the vortex motor for it to pull the full 12 amps. For a vacuum to work properly, you have to have a brush that turns at a fast enough speed WITH enough suction to carry off the dirt. A 3.5 amp motor just can't do it. Expecting to get your carpets clean with a vacuum that uses one 3.5 amp motor is like expecting to win the Indianapolis 500 with a Ford Escort. Again, for $750, there are soooooo many better choices out there. That is sooo much to spend on a tiny motored upright and a buster bee vacuum with a tiny little bag that clogs quickly. There are lots of nice canister vacuums with nice powernozzles and nice attachments, and then you only need ONE vacuum that will do a very nice job.

Derreck

 

[tolivac]

Yes,I also own a Meile Red Velvet-use this as well on occasions-all of my vacuums in my collection get used at some time or another.the Meile is a very good vacuum.They are very quiet and well designed.Plus very powerful for their size and remember the Meile "vortex" motor is SINGLE fan-and gives BETTER performance than many dual fan canister vacuums.Its how the fan is designed.I find it better to use the tools on my of my Kirbys than using the mini-canister that came with one of my Orecks.And the Kirby in the canister-hose mode sure moves more air and has better filtration than that "Buster-Bee" canister.Its tiny bag fills and clogs quickly and sometimes leaks dirt you just picked up-and yes-the bag and filter is in mine correctly.Oh yes on the Meile and other variable speed canisters-you can throttle the suction motor back on some of those delicate cleaning jobs-and the motor is just loafing.Very low current draw.And little heat.Modern switching PDM motor controls dissapate very little heat-have very low losses.I can remember the Oreck XL21 upright had two speeds-they suggested using the "low" speed for bare floors.I tried it at the Vacuum store in Kinston.The only full Oreck dealer in my area.He also carries Simplicity,Royal,and TriStar.

 

[rexairman]

I have owned vacuum cleaner stores for 36 years, and worked in the business as a kid before that. I have refined my position on the Oreck. I used to dismiss it as a piece of sh*t. I still don't like it any better than before, but have come to the realization that it is the outrageous price they get for the thing that infuriates me. If they were honest, they would say that the Oreck is a great light duty, quick pick-up vacuum for use when you don't want to get the real vacuum out, and sell it for $100-$150. What consumers are really paying for is the huge national advertising budget. Repair parts - and Orecks need repairs a LOT - they do not hold up well at all - cost anywhere from three to five times as much as the equivalent parts for other vacuums. And Oreck may be a satisfactory vacuum for a little old lady living on an upper floor of the retirement apartments (where they don't get much dirt), but it seems a shame to stab an old lady for $400. Sanitaire offers the lightweight (10 lb.) Model 634 (a descendant of the Eureka 1400 series) which we sell for $149.95. It is a far superior machine to the Oreck in terms of cleaning efficiency, and holds up well. It is warranted for two years and five years on the motor. The more powerful Sanitaires using this same platform, but with larger motors, metal handles, and Vibra Groomer I or II brush rolls, clean better than any other upright vacuums currently available, and I sell the top of the line 677 for $329.95, half the cost of the most expensive Oreck, and at least ten times the machine. As far as I'm concerned, the Oreck is the greatest fraud ever perpetrated on the American buying public.