This is to all Oreck fans...

[dial-a-matic]

Karl,

The warranty on the r----- and the s--------- is TWO years. Even the xl-classic has a Three year warranty. I am not dissn t----- but I am saying the warranty is better on the o----.

-a-

 

[compactc9]

The warranty on the Riccars are 2 years.

As for comparing the 2, I look at both cleaning and reliability. Some of the features for durability that the Riccar has that Oreck doesnt: a circuit breaker on th motor, thread guards on the brushroll, rubber treaded lexan wheels that roll on brass busings, and a larger, thicker fan (the Oreck's fan has hollow blades, honestly. The Riccars also can use Filtrete bags and you can change the belt without needing a screwdriver.

As for including a small handvac, this is entirely up to the dealer. They can choose to include the SupraQuick, or not. But with a full retail price of less than a comparable standard Oreck, you could buy both the top of the line RSL and upgrade to a larger small canister to get near the Oreck's price, and ou would still have a better canister with larger bags.

When I was working for a Riccar dealer, we traded in almost every Oreck that came in for service on a RSL, and people loved them. I have nothing against the Oreck, I just feel the Riccar version is better, and this is based on both customer's and my own personal experiance in selling and servicing both brands.

 

[luxboy]

Buying an Oreck

I personally don't think anyone would be upset by not having the ability to sell Orecks. All of the vacuum shops that I know of (including me at Electrolux) get several Orecks traded in all of the time. These machines never even get sold as used unless someone comes in asking specifically for an Oreck, and even then most vac shops will talk the consumer into buying something better. An Oreck would be the perfect vacuum for an old lady living in an apartment, but for someone who is attempting to actually get their carpets clean, it just doesn't have the power to deep clean down deep into carpets where the sand and damaging particles lay. It will groom the carpets nicely and pick up surface dirt, but to deep clean, you need a "gas guzzler"

Derreck

 

[ohio_tuec]

I disagree wholeheartedly. The roller brush on an Oreck turns at 6500 RPM's, three times faster than the roller in a conventional vacuum, which (combined with powerful suction) give it the ability to deep clean carpets like no other vacuum. "Gas Guzzler" vacuums with 12 amp motors don't necessarily clean better, they just generate more heat so the motors burn out in a relatively short period of time. Amperage has absolutely NOTHING to do with efficiency of a vacuum. It's merely a measure of how much electricity you are sucking out of the wall. Oreck's design has often been imitated, most recently by Riccar and Hoover, but I believe the Riccar will be a flash in the pan. Bison tried (unsuccessfully) to imitate the Kirby. It was similar in design, but ultimately Kirby won out, and Bison went into bankruptcy. Oreck has a proud 43 year history. How long has Riccar been in business???

 

[compactc9]

Riccar has been in the sewing machine buisness since 1945. They started making vacuums in the 80s and were bought by tacony in the early 90s. Ever since Tacony bought them, they and Simplicity have been a growing company in the independant vcuum store buisness. They have a full line of high quality vacuums, not just the SupraLite. I seriously doubt that Tacony is going anywhere.

 

[swingette]

i have a standard regular oreck. the brush spins too fast, too fast and too little airflow. just enough airflow to pull the surface debris away. the oreck will actually grind dirt DEEPER into the carpet with its combination of mega-sweeping and inadequate airflow. the xl 21 is prolly better. the oreck currently resides at moms house. my brother loves it.

 

[robgwisdala]

Oreck XL21 upright
4.0 amp motor
Oreck XL upright
4.0 amp motor
Riccar Supralite/Simplicity Freedom
5.5 amp motor

 

[robgwisdala]

Honestly, I like the Riccar Supralite/Simplicity Freedom and Riccar Supraquik/Simplicity Sport much better than Oreck XL21/Oreck XL.

 

[convertible68]

Derreck--

Speaking of lightweights, I'm wondering...

Tom mentioned to me about an Electrolux lightweight upright that apparently is a much better performer than the Oreck (at least on carpets anyway) in addition to being less expensive. However, I've Googled around and can't find any information on it ANYWHERE. Does your branch carry these? I think he said they were $299 retail.

 

[tolivac]

WOW!-Oreck Vs Riccar.I have an Oreck-its not the XL21-I tried an XL21 and didn't notice much diffrence over then one I now have.I have 3 Orecks in my collection-two were free!One from a work collegue who didn't want it,and another as a trade in toward a TriStar.the Oreck is an interesting little vacuum-but really CANNOT compete with some of the "heavyweights"remember the Oreck was originally designed to clean low pile commercial carpets-this it does supurbly.When I try to use it on my deep pile carpets--that 6500RPM brush speed bogs down badly-the machine is REALLY struggling.In this instance Oreck should provide some sort of nozzle height adjust-then it should be better.When I try the Oreck on a bare floor-ANYTHING in its path goes--the high speed brush sort of even "polishes" the floor!It manages to get dust and stuff cleaning to the bare floor.Some others miss this fine dirt.Esp the "chalky" dirt that collects on bathroom floors.I imagine this must be soap-water residue,maybe mixed with some skin residue.I also like the circuit break in the Riccar-Oreck should provide a breaker in their machine-makes sense.If the Oreck should hit that unknown sock under the bed--imagine its motor is "toast" unless you are VERY quick on the stop switch.I do like the "plane" handle on the Orecks-holds much like the handle on a hand plane.You can exert force easily to push-pull the machine.I really wonder though-will either the Oreck or the Riccar "Superlite" last for 21yrs-I have my doubts.In both machines their small motors are working pretty hard to turn both their suction fans and beater bars.Bigger vacuums-the motors last longer since they aren't as under as much of a load.I would give it to the Orecks and Riccar-their smaller nozzles get into small places better.I could envision an office cleaning service using either if these machines to clean around and under office desks,etc.I am also a firm beliver of Tacony products--they give an excellent value for the money- more so than the Oreck.

 

[ohio_tuec]

I can tell I'm hitting a brick wall here. Everyone seems hellbent on the Riccar. I, however will put my money on the originator, rather than the imitator every time. I think the Riccar SuperLite will be a flash in the pan, just like the Bissell ProLite/Kenmore E4. Why does the Oreck need a circuit breaker? If something gets stuck in the roller brush, the worst that will happen is the belt breaks. Most people know better than to suck up a sock. Usually, it's the cleaning ladies who do this. I'm sure the bulk majority of these XL-21's will be around 21 years from now. You'd be a fool to not take advantage of the warranty and free yearly service. My daily driver is an Oreck XL 100C from 1984 (22 years old - and still going strong!) The XL-21 is not your mother's Oreck, and should not be judged as such. It is in a class by itself.
You are incorrect in saying the vacuums with bigger motors last longer. They burn out quicker, because they generate more heat. If this were true, then why do I see practically new Dirt Devils, Sharks, Eurekas and Hoovers with 12 amp motors thrown out all the time? This is done intentionally, so the masses buy a new vacuum every six months or a year. People want lighter weight vacuums, not these big clunky bagless machines. I think if I had to choose an 8 pound vacuum that was not an Oreck, I would look at the new lightweight Hoover first.

 

[my-ellie]

I thought I might weigh in with my two-cents on the Oreck question. No brickbats, please. I'm not trying to ruffle any feathers. But here's the situation as I see it.

David Oreck was a marketing man who went, in the 1960's to Whirlpool, after Sears forced them to stop selling vacuums under the Whirlpool name, and bought the rights to Whirlpool's little 'broom vac' they were making for Sears, which became the first Oreck. It was nothing more than a power nozzle motor with a fan built into the pivot knuckle to throw the dirt it inhaled into a little bag attached at the front of the handle. I have the Sears ad for this very machine.


David Oreck is a very good 'marketing man', who tried innovative ways to sell his light weight broom vac. The first thing he had to do was to stop thinking of it as an electric broom, and start calling it a full sized vacuum cleaner. Over the course of the first few years, the Oreck was built in Germany, then by Bissell in America. The handle was made taller (the first Oreck's had short little squat, square handles). But it still retained it's initial design of a power nozzle motor with a belt on one end and a fan on the other. Just a minimum amount of airflow to move the dirt dislodged by the brush into the bag.

Today, Oreck has several different "models" of virtually the same machine. While the XL-21 had a larger suction OPENING and a larger fan chamber, it retains the little power nozzle motor, fan, and belt design of the first Oreck machines (including the XL-21's 3.5 amp motor).

While the design is sufficient for surface cleaning of the rug, the design falls short on suction, using a very fast rotating brush to 'comb' the carpet rather than using high suction to remove the dirt. I find that strong airflow as well as high speed agitation is the best design for rug cleaning.

I went to the Oreck store, curious, because I saw the Television commercial with David Oreck extolling the virtues of his eight-pound wonder. I was in sticker shock over the prices of these machines. The XL-21 was $800, and included a little compact vacuum (with TINY bags) because the upright had no attachments on the machine. I guess to make it eight pounds you have to take OUT something, like attachments, and make everything tiny (like the motor and fan).

The XL-21 has a fan vulverable to damage by hard debris. While it's hard plastic ("kevlar" they called it, which sounds like a made-up name to me), it's still in the path of the dirt. The belt is a simple flat power nozzle belt. Isn't this 2007? Where's the lifetime geared (cogged) belt of other $800 machines?

Then came the REAL shock. The bags. Not just for one vacuum, but for two. The little vac's tiny bags come twelve to a pack for $14. The upright's "celoc" (another made up word if you ask me) bags cost $20 for eight.

I asked them if I could test out the XL-21 on some rice I brought with me, to see "if it would edge clean well". They allowed me to throw the rice down against an edge. The Oreck just pushed it with it's mustache brushes, but didn't inhale it. I could smell the rice it did suck up, after grinding through the fan, and hitting the bag, coming through and out into the air.

I'm, admittedly, a Miele fan. My Miele 217 power nozzle sucks up rice along ANY edge, doesn't grind it through a fan, doesn't let any smells out (the carbon filter doesn't allow it), and the Miele has real, honest to God suction power. I have attachments to clean everything, including bare floors, and my Miele will last every bit of 21 years WITHOUT an annual 'tune up' and the associated hassle and expensve of driving the machine to and from a repair shop all the time.

My Miele will never need a new belt. Nor will the belt burn, crack, slip or break. My Miele is QUIET and the filtration is at the 100% level. Yet, the Miele cost less (by $300) than the Oreck XL-21. My model 514 Miele, in gorgeous Vibrant Red, cost $499 plus tax.

After all that, I decided that if I wanted a light weight vacuum for 'daily' jobs, I could just buy the Miele Universal Upright with a 217 power nozzle. I'd have a two motor machine, with five times the suction of the Oreck, at the same weight as the Oreck, for $500 less than the Oreck.

My personal thought is that the Oreck's price includes about a 50% markup because of all the advertising. I don't feel like paying for television commercials.

 

[ohio_tuec]

Well, you're over 21, and entitled just the same as me to make an informed decision. After the statements you made, I would say the Oreck is DEFINITELY NOT FOR YOU. You sound like a die-hard canister fan. I will defend Oreck to the death, and not because I work for them, but because I am a staunch believer in the product. I wonder if you'll have the same allegiance to Miele when you find out that the new models are being produced in China. Miele is pure markup as well (most of their canisters with power nozzles start at $7-800.00), and anybody that pays $1200.00 for a Red Velvet I think needs to get their head examined. For that kind of money, I would rather have a Kirby Sentria and get a lifetime warranty. What's the best warranty on a Miele? You will pay dearly for replacement parts as well, since everything comes from Germany. It's fairly obvious from the comments you make that you despise the Oreck. If that's the case, you should despise the Riccar equally so. And that's okay, because every day we convert two dozen or so people into loyal Oreck owners in our dealership alone. Most people today do not want to be bothered pushing a bulky power nozzle, and schlepping a clunky canister behind them.
I don't know what was wrong with the XL-21 you tested, but in our showroom that same vacuum devours rice, with no odors being expelled back into the air. You know darn well the Oreck cannot use a cogged belt, as it is a one motor system. It requires a flat belt (just as all other single motor uprights) that can break in the event an object gets jammed.
So, like I say the Oreck (and probably any other model upright) would not be for you. That's why Baskin-Robbins makes 31 flavors.

 

[luxboy]

Oreck belts & Riccar differences

I actually think all of the sewing machine motor lightweight uprights serve a purpose in this life (not of which is to deep clean carpets however). They are great for older people or people who have certain disabilities that prevent them from using a full sized vacuum. As far the belt situation on an Oreck, for the average consumer, if everytime something got stuck in the vacuum the belt broke and had to be replaced, I can imagine that would get old. I guess that's why there is a storage place for an extra belt on the underside. It seems like the cogged belt nozzles with a reset button are much more effective as you only have to reach down and press the reset button. Warranty, warranty, warranty. Well.. I work for Electrolux, and with Electrolux or any other vacuum manufacturer, the warranty covers MANUFACTURERS DEFECTS ONLY, not WEAR AND TEAR. I can tell you that in 20 years, I will have most likely never had to bring my Miele in for a "TUNE UP" becuase it won't need one. There is nothing that will need to be tuned up, except for maybe a new brushroll eventually. I'm not sure where the idea came from that a Kirby has a lifetime warranty, because indeed, I have a friend who just purchased a Kirby Sentria and in the manual it states that there is a 3 year limited warranty on manufacturer defects. What might have spurred this idea is that Kirby does offer a lifetime offer to the ORIGINAL purchaser of the machine that for a certain price ($135, but subject to change according to the consumer price index) the machine may be sent back to Kirby to be rebuilt. I think Kirbys are fun machines and they definately have a cool look to them, but I certainly would not want one of these boat anchors as my daily driver. Again, I think these lightweights are great for older folks, or to pull out of the closet for a quick cleanup. I'll think I'll stick to my full size to guarantee that my carpets are indeed clean

Derreck

 

[robgwisdala]

In my opinion, The Kirby/Rainbow/Filter Queen outcleans and outlasts the Oreck XL21/Oreck XL uprights!

 

[talktotravis]

The only Miele canister made in China is the S251 Plus, which I believe has been discontinued. The rest are made in Germany with oodles of quality built in.

 

[vacuumkid3]

The Miele is or was made in China?? I thought that both Sebo and Miele were only made in Germany! Gosh...even Germany is getting China to make their vacuums! Oh, well...I still love both of 'em!

~~K~~

 

[ohio_tuec]

For now, yes, but I happen to know from a few sources that the new line of Mieles is going to be produced in China. And yes, you will pay, and pay dearly for that German quality. Just as they soak you every time you visit the Mercedes dealer. I would rather buy an American made vacuum (like the Oreck), and have the parts readily available. Orecks don't need tune-ups, but it's a nice thing to have to keep the vacuum in peak operating condition. Let's face it, in 20 years your Miele will need parts replaced as well. Why do you refer to Orecks as "sewing machine motors?" At best, the low-end Mieles come with a turbo tool (which will do a good job, but nowhere near as good as a motorized power nozzle). As I already mentioned before Derreck, the Oreck CANNOT have a geared belt, as one motor drives the fan and the roller brush. You know that. If you want an Oreck canister with a geared belt, consider the Dutchtech. It has all the features of the Miele at a fraction of the price. I have one or two Mieles in my collection, but I really don't find them to be any better than the other canisters out there. If it has to be a canister, I'll pick my Electrolux Super J over the Miele any day of the week.

 

[compactc9]

The Plus is still beeing sold, and is made in China. The S514 is also now made in China, but the quality is the same as any other Miele.

 

[compactc9]

As to the life of the smaller motors VS larger motors. The Oreck motor is small and turns very fast (same for the Riccar RSL motor) this high speed will wear the small bearings out faster. Larget motors tend to turn slower, andh have larger bearings. Some larger motors are made cheaply, which will cause them to burn out quickly. A well made large motor, such as the Miele Vortex motor will last a long time and work efficiently, even if they are 12 amps.