crazykirbydude
Well-known member
Sorry, I got a bit heated. Trolls really piss me off though!
The most frustrating vacuum video on Youtube.
- Thread starter vexorgtr
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vexorgtr
Well-known member
Kirby is fundimentally the same for many years.....
We know that Kirby systems have seen small improvements over time, but the system was very solid to start with. Kirby vacs are among the most powerful, and since the product is effective, major changes are not in order. I look at the 70's era one my mom had... newer units had the transmission drive, better bag/filter, stuff I think we can agree made it better.
Mr. Vacuum Facts crossed the line with me by disrespecting the central vac... which is my favorite. That does not mean I thumb my nose at other machines, but I have found my favorite.
We know that Kirby systems have seen small improvements over time, but the system was very solid to start with. Kirby vacs are among the most powerful, and since the product is effective, major changes are not in order. I look at the 70's era one my mom had... newer units had the transmission drive, better bag/filter, stuff I think we can agree made it better.
Mr. Vacuum Facts crossed the line with me by disrespecting the central vac... which is my favorite. That does not mean I thumb my nose at other machines, but I have found my favorite.
crazykirbydude
This Vacuum Facts guy is against the whole vacuum cleaner community. You're not the only one who has been affected. Majority of his videos are made to (try) convince people how wrong they are and how misleading their videos are. I am surprised that his channel hasn't been taken down after all the copyright violations. You can Imagine how upset I was to find out that he had taken screen shots from my videos. Then using those in his videos to show how "ridiculous" my videos are.
He is poison to the whole vacuum community.
I don't even want to watch his videos anymore, because I just get frustrated.
This Vacuum Facts guy is against the whole vacuum cleaner community. You're not the only one who has been affected. Majority of his videos are made to (try) convince people how wrong they are and how misleading their videos are. I am surprised that his channel hasn't been taken down after all the copyright violations. You can Imagine how upset I was to find out that he had taken screen shots from my videos. Then using those in his videos to show how "ridiculous" my videos are.
He is poison to the whole vacuum community.
I don't even want to watch his videos anymore, because I just get frustrated.
@mike811
The guy is a knob head but I'm not sure if you're necessarily in the right, over copyright law. His usage sounds like textbook fair use.
https://fairuse.stanford.edu/overview/fair-use/what-is-fair-use/
"In its most general sense, a fair use is any copying of copyrighted material done for a limited and “transformative” purpose, such as to comment upon, criticize, or parody a copyrighted work. Such uses can be done without permission from the copyright owner. In other words, fair use is a defense against a claim of copyright infringement. If your use qualifies as a fair use, then it would not be considered an infringement."
The guy is a knob head but I'm not sure if you're necessarily in the right, over copyright law. His usage sounds like textbook fair use.
https://fairuse.stanford.edu/overview/fair-use/what-is-fair-use/
"In its most general sense, a fair use is any copying of copyrighted material done for a limited and “transformative” purpose, such as to comment upon, criticize, or parody a copyrighted work. Such uses can be done without permission from the copyright owner. In other words, fair use is a defense against a claim of copyright infringement. If your use qualifies as a fair use, then it would not be considered an infringement."
crazykirbydude
Well-known member
JohnnyL8 is a total tool. He dismisses proven scientific fact as marketing mumbo jumbo. It's a proven fact that strong airflow is needed to properly clean floors and carpeting. Dyson cleaners only produce around 52 CFM of airflow for a full size upright, which is the worst airflow of any high end upright. A Kirby Avalir 2 produces around 150 CFM at the cleaner head, which is almost THREE TIMES as much as a Dyson. An Aerus Electrolux canister will get about 100 CFM as well, almost twice that of a Dyson. Also, The Kirby and Aerus Electrolux agitate with vibration. The Dyson agitates by grinding and tearing at the carpet fibers. When you vacuum with a Dyson, most of the stuff in that bin is actually ripped up carpet fibers, not dirt! There have been numerous complaints of Dysons tearing up carpets, and even some carpet manufacturers will void your warranty if you use a Dyson on that carpet. They're also not durable. I came across a Dyson DC07 a few days ago that you could pull to bits with your hands! I don't even need to mention the Dyson V10's self destruct battery!
vacfan1982
Well-known member
If you look at Johnny's new video he's shows that the Kirby doesn't perform as well on modern carpets which have a waterproof non permeable backing. I won't pick up any flour from under the carpet.
I think you all should watch
I think you all should watch
Fitted carpets in the US are mostly flow through. EU countries rarely have fitted carpets (only UK). Mostly rugs are used in the EU (flow through) where the Kirby performs well. So totally pointless video unless UK is the whole EU LOL
Here is the video:
Here is the video:
vacfan1982
Well-known member
Yes I made this point in the comments. But maybe the future is waterproof backed non permeable carpets.
crazykirbydude
Well-known member
Well, nothing will pick up flour from underneath a rubber backed carpet! I still stand by Kirby. It has a Gold CRI seal, while Dyson and Shark have none!
kirbysthebest
Well-known member
Flour Pick up
The thing with a non-porous carpet backing. Though true you couldn't pick up flour you placed underneath, but being non-porous, light sand and such wouldn't have worked it's way under the carpet either, so you wouldn't have to pick it up.
Different vacuums work better, or differently on different carpet types. Kirby doesn't do well on glued down kitchen style carpet; it wants to seal to the carpet. Luckily I have 50 some different machines to choose from so I am not at a loss for the different carpet types.
The thing with a non-porous carpet backing. Though true you couldn't pick up flour you placed underneath, but being non-porous, light sand and such wouldn't have worked it's way under the carpet either, so you wouldn't have to pick it up.
Different vacuums work better, or differently on different carpet types. Kirby doesn't do well on glued down kitchen style carpet; it wants to seal to the carpet. Luckily I have 50 some different machines to choose from so I am not at a loss for the different carpet types.
panasonicvac
Well-known member
I rarely have time to watch videos as much as I like to nowadays. I also agree with Tom, anybody has their own opinions. And arguing is really not my thing to get into. I've watched that central vac video a while ago, it was the only video that I have seen on their channel. I don't think I've lasted more than 5 minutes of the video. If you don't like watching videos of this channel, just simply don't watch anymore of them.
I got this lecture from JohnnyL8 (Vacuum Facts) after he saw my video (above).
He is totally out of his mind and better to avoid and just forget.
"Nevertheless, good effort on your part to at least attempt to show an honest test of the very point which was initially dismissed. It nicely shows everything I said here about how Kirby's airflow drops like a stone on carpet relative to the open hose, is 100% true. Unfortunately, it’s not possible to draw too meaningful a conclusion about the quantified relative cleaning performance from your test, because measurements are inaccurate and suffer from many testing flaws which affect results. Firstly, you only make a single pass forwards and backwards, which doesn’t account for statistical variability of particle removal from carpets; I've discussed this many times on my channel. Secondly, you don’t accurately represent that real-world users would repeat passes (at least twice) for obviously exaggerated messes like you had as an initial condition, and in such a way that unswept belt lines are addressed. Thirdly, you used the Kirby after an initial clean from both units to attempt to quantify the residual remaining. This limits the residual mass extraction to the performance of the Kirby in both cases which is another source of error. This mixing of machines can’t be done in performance testing, as it mixes variables and renders it an unfair test.
You'll see this week some highly accurate, milligram accuracy, fully quantified testing of relative performance of a Kirby with a more representative dust type containing a range of particle sizes, and which accounts for statistical variability in deep-cleaning. Unlike most amateur tests, the results are fairly conclusive and devoid of sources of common error, and are thus less inaccurate. I'll also add that there is no good evidence that US (or EU) homes have one type of carpet over another. This is a made up myth. I heard that most US homes favour hard flooring, in fact."
He is totally out of his mind and better to avoid and just forget.
"Nevertheless, good effort on your part to at least attempt to show an honest test of the very point which was initially dismissed. It nicely shows everything I said here about how Kirby's airflow drops like a stone on carpet relative to the open hose, is 100% true. Unfortunately, it’s not possible to draw too meaningful a conclusion about the quantified relative cleaning performance from your test, because measurements are inaccurate and suffer from many testing flaws which affect results. Firstly, you only make a single pass forwards and backwards, which doesn’t account for statistical variability of particle removal from carpets; I've discussed this many times on my channel. Secondly, you don’t accurately represent that real-world users would repeat passes (at least twice) for obviously exaggerated messes like you had as an initial condition, and in such a way that unswept belt lines are addressed. Thirdly, you used the Kirby after an initial clean from both units to attempt to quantify the residual remaining. This limits the residual mass extraction to the performance of the Kirby in both cases which is another source of error. This mixing of machines can’t be done in performance testing, as it mixes variables and renders it an unfair test.
You'll see this week some highly accurate, milligram accuracy, fully quantified testing of relative performance of a Kirby with a more representative dust type containing a range of particle sizes, and which accounts for statistical variability in deep-cleaning. Unlike most amateur tests, the results are fairly conclusive and devoid of sources of common error, and are thus less inaccurate. I'll also add that there is no good evidence that US (or EU) homes have one type of carpet over another. This is a made up myth. I heard that most US homes favour hard flooring, in fact."
vacfan1982
Well-known member
Well at least he was polite 
sptyks
Well-known member
My 2 cents...
Just about everything this Johnny guy says in his videos is total BS!!!
Just about everything this Johnny guy says in his videos is total BS!!!
vacfan1982
Well-known member
Actually the points he is making about the Kirby this week are correct.
It doesn't perform at it's best on his carpet which is non permeable.
It works better on carpet that allows air to flow through. I don't agree with everything he says but a lot of it makes perfect sense.
It doesn't perform at it's best on his carpet which is non permeable.
It works better on carpet that allows air to flow through. I don't agree with everything he says but a lot of it makes perfect sense.
Kirby is not even designed to work on the sealed carpets. Many have pointed that out when I have tested my Kirby on my rubber backed sealed rugs.
Note that US homes are full of wall to wall carpets that are flow through on those Kirby performs fantastically.
Somehow he thinks that his tests are correct and other youtubers tests are "misleading". Total BS.
Just look how Kirby works on the flow trough rug/carpet compared to modern Dyson:
Note that US homes are full of wall to wall carpets that are flow through on those Kirby performs fantastically.
Somehow he thinks that his tests are correct and other youtubers tests are "misleading". Total BS.
Just look how Kirby works on the flow trough rug/carpet compared to modern Dyson:
ralph123
Well-known member
I'm not convinced that the Kirby vs Dyson test is fair, since the Kirby was also used to pick the winner. I say this because you don't really know how much dirt was missed by each vacuum. you only know that the Kirby picked up less dirt on the Kirby side than the Dyson side. You would need to give the Dyson the opportunity to pick up dirt missed by the Kirby as well to be more fair.
vacfan1982
Well-known member
[No message]
vexorgtr
Well-known member
It's funny, we really should be talking about cleaning effectiveness, but we love to dwell on the numbers. It's easy to think about the CFM, sealed suction, and air watts, yet the ultimate question is...... Does it remove the dust dirt and sand effectively?
In case you were wondering, In the USA hard floors are currently very popular in new homes, and in remodels, but in older homes, wall to wall carpet is still very common. Our home has lots of carpet, and a good deal of hard floors too.... thus the Central vac serves me well. With the variety of tools, its light weight and strong power make things easier. I like that I can easily clean high and low. It's actually easy to vacuum the ceiling, the walls, the lights... anything I want to.
In case you were wondering, In the USA hard floors are currently very popular in new homes, and in remodels, but in older homes, wall to wall carpet is still very common. Our home has lots of carpet, and a good deal of hard floors too.... thus the Central vac serves me well. With the variety of tools, its light weight and strong power make things easier. I like that I can easily clean high and low. It's actually easy to vacuum the ceiling, the walls, the lights... anything I want to.
Vexorgtr
You are right. Numbers are just numbers. I have done a lot of testing and the cleaning head design is extremely important along with the airflow. Kirby is my best vacuum for fine dust pick up. Sebo Felix and Vorwerk VK135 are best for the sand pick up (although Kirby comes close).
You are right. Numbers are just numbers. I have done a lot of testing and the cleaning head design is extremely important along with the airflow. Kirby is my best vacuum for fine dust pick up. Sebo Felix and Vorwerk VK135 are best for the sand pick up (although Kirby comes close).
hmc1981
Well-known member
I really don’t know why I’m adding to this, it doesn’t really matter.
I guess for me, it has nothing to do with the make of the machines, it’s his attitude. For example: He once said the Carpet and Rug Institute was a “cowboy organization” (or whatever cowboy thing he said) without providing details and hard evidence that their testing methods are inaccurate - and then goes on to tell others that unless they can back up what they say with hard evidence, what they say is therefore mere opinion and not based on facts. To me that’s just a double standard and it’s unfair, and to me discredits everything he does.
I own several vacuums, many different makes. MY PERSONAL EXPERIENCE- I’ve used a couple of Dysons, one a DC41, the other I don’t remember. There’s an area in my home (house is quite old) where I keep the litter box... wood floors with some large gaps between planks. The ONLY machines I’ve ever used that DIDN'T pick up the litter that was in between the planks were the Dysons. I guess what I’m saying is that his “facts” do not match my reality - and that’s the point. There isn’t one single machine that can do everything perfectly and better. The very nature of his videos is dishonest and I could give a flying f what he’s testing against, he is the one guilty of misleading people, not his claim of the opposite.
I guess for me, it has nothing to do with the make of the machines, it’s his attitude. For example: He once said the Carpet and Rug Institute was a “cowboy organization” (or whatever cowboy thing he said) without providing details and hard evidence that their testing methods are inaccurate - and then goes on to tell others that unless they can back up what they say with hard evidence, what they say is therefore mere opinion and not based on facts. To me that’s just a double standard and it’s unfair, and to me discredits everything he does.
I own several vacuums, many different makes. MY PERSONAL EXPERIENCE- I’ve used a couple of Dysons, one a DC41, the other I don’t remember. There’s an area in my home (house is quite old) where I keep the litter box... wood floors with some large gaps between planks. The ONLY machines I’ve ever used that DIDN'T pick up the litter that was in between the planks were the Dysons. I guess what I’m saying is that his “facts” do not match my reality - and that’s the point. There isn’t one single machine that can do everything perfectly and better. The very nature of his videos is dishonest and I could give a flying f what he’s testing against, he is the one guilty of misleading people, not his claim of the opposite.
I just IGNORE that clown and DO NOT watch his goofy videos.He is just a DYSON salesman in disguise!!
vaclab
Well-known member
JohnnyL8 has INTENTIONALLY RIGGED this test
Let's count the ways, shall we?
1) By using an airflow robbing dirt meter and pads that clog with large amounts of dust almost immediately. Easy to prove and I have on my channel.
2) By using a brushroll with worn bristles. Compare a new chevron style to his and you will see much tighter tufts.
3) By not proving in any way (that I can find quickly) his G5 is "up to snuff". In other words, we have no idea how well it is performing natively.
AND three more things that are quite hilarious is that he wants to compare a mid-90's machine to a late 2010's machine, when there are obvious updates like:
1) Newer style oblique stiff brushroll and
2) HEPA bags
3) 20%-25% higher airflow (Avalir vs. older G series).
The best thing I laughed at in his video is his obvious misuse of the term MASS. Yup, what he claims is mass is actually weight. Mass is weight divided by gravity.
HOWEVER, did everyone notice that his mangled, crippled G5 had essentially the same pickup as the almighty V10 up through "Cleaning Session #6"?
If he has the ability to weigh the dirt pickup, why didn't he just weigh a bag multiple times? Frankly, his test proves the very opposite of what he thinks. That high airflow in a traditional dirty air vacuum could easily beat a V10 on his porous carpet if it wasn't intentionally crippled.
I think I remember informing him of his suction versus airflow confusion back a few years ago in videos he's probably deleted by now.
Look, if I really wanted to cheat, I could probably create any number of tests if I wanted to prove machine X is better than machine Y, but that's simply not what I'm about.
Let me know if I've missed anything...
Bill
Let's count the ways, shall we?
1) By using an airflow robbing dirt meter and pads that clog with large amounts of dust almost immediately. Easy to prove and I have on my channel.
2) By using a brushroll with worn bristles. Compare a new chevron style to his and you will see much tighter tufts.
3) By not proving in any way (that I can find quickly) his G5 is "up to snuff". In other words, we have no idea how well it is performing natively.
AND three more things that are quite hilarious is that he wants to compare a mid-90's machine to a late 2010's machine, when there are obvious updates like:
1) Newer style oblique stiff brushroll and
2) HEPA bags
3) 20%-25% higher airflow (Avalir vs. older G series).
The best thing I laughed at in his video is his obvious misuse of the term MASS. Yup, what he claims is mass is actually weight. Mass is weight divided by gravity.
HOWEVER, did everyone notice that his mangled, crippled G5 had essentially the same pickup as the almighty V10 up through "Cleaning Session #6"?
If he has the ability to weigh the dirt pickup, why didn't he just weigh a bag multiple times? Frankly, his test proves the very opposite of what he thinks. That high airflow in a traditional dirty air vacuum could easily beat a V10 on his porous carpet if it wasn't intentionally crippled.
I think I remember informing him of his suction versus airflow confusion back a few years ago in videos he's probably deleted by now.
Look, if I really wanted to cheat, I could probably create any number of tests if I wanted to prove machine X is better than machine Y, but that's simply not what I'm about.
Let me know if I've missed anything...
Bill
Vaclab
Indeed he intentionally rigged the test and when I pointed those to him he just totally ignored my opinions. I saw your video how badly the dirt meter lowers the airflow and he thinks that "some airflow loss" doesn't matter. So 47 cfm is minor difference compared to the 121 cfm LOL! Same with the old vs new brushroll type. He just claims that it doesn't matter and the added agitation doesn't change anything.
He is full of BS with his V10.
Indeed he intentionally rigged the test and when I pointed those to him he just totally ignored my opinions. I saw your video how badly the dirt meter lowers the airflow and he thinks that "some airflow loss" doesn't matter. So 47 cfm is minor difference compared to the 121 cfm LOL! Same with the old vs new brushroll type. He just claims that it doesn't matter and the added agitation doesn't change anything.
He is full of BS with his V10.
hmc1981
Well-known member
Mike811
Didn’t he write you and say something along the lines of your test being inaccurate because you only did a single pass and a real world user would make at least two passes? Doesn’t he understand that in the real world people wouldn’t be vacuuming with the dirt meter? Lol. It takes all sorts to make a world.
I haven’t seen his “test” yet. Not sure if I will or not. He’s just so pompous - insisting he is accurate and everyone else is wrong. I’ll give him one thing, he’s accurately inaccurate.
Happy vacuuming!
Didn’t he write you and say something along the lines of your test being inaccurate because you only did a single pass and a real world user would make at least two passes? Doesn’t he understand that in the real world people wouldn’t be vacuuming with the dirt meter? Lol. It takes all sorts to make a world.
I haven’t seen his “test” yet. Not sure if I will or not. He’s just so pompous - insisting he is accurate and everyone else is wrong. I’ll give him one thing, he’s accurately inaccurate.
Happy vacuuming!
