Central vacuum install "pipe dream"

[bagintheback]

Call a local dealer and ask for an estimate. It might be cheaper to buy a hose and attachment set separately, especially if you buy something used or just want a Turbocat. Last year I asked an MD dealer how much it would cost to retrofit a system at my parents house, and I was told it would cost about $4k, however it was likely not possible since we don't have basements or attics in Arizona. It would have had to been done during construction. Your situation might be different since you have an attic. Either way, definitely expect it to be in the thousands.

 

[amtraksebo1997]

BagintheBack

That was kinda the whole idea as to why I would contact my local Beam/Vacuflo dealer...

Regarding attachment kits, that's something I'm a little uncertain over now. While I still really want to get an MD Stealth kit, those things are almost 3x as expensive as the OVO power unit I want. I'm willing to settle for a cheaper alternative, but I don't want to just get any electric hose, PN, and accessories. I want to keep somewhat of 1990s vibe with the system if that makes sense, so I want my Vacu-Valves to be either almond or white, the hose to be a white Plastiflex one with a gas-pump handle, and the accessories to be white unless I decide otherwise.

For power nozzles, I'm still considering the Whirlpool powerhead as a budget option, and either the MD Stealth or maybe the Sebo ET-1 as premium options. Do you or anyone else have any other reccomendations?

 

[bagintheback]

I definitely get that, my ultimate dream vacuum has always been a Silent Master and a Stealth kit. I've actually used the Lindhuas power nozzle on a Miracle Mate, and while it is very quiet, the agitation wasn't aggressive enough and it's not worth the retail price.

Other people should definitely chime in, but honestly, the best power nozzle I've ever used has still been the old Eureka Vibra Groomer III variants. Get one on eBay. That would also really fit with your 90s aesthetic. If you want new the "Blackhawk" I believe is the closest. I haven't used any Wessel Werk electic nozzles yet so I can't comment on that. The Sebo, Kenmore, Electrolux/Areus (PN 5 is my fav) styles are great too but you can't beat a Vibra Groomer on carpets.

Something else to consider is buying a Vacumaid Garage Vac and hanging it in a utility room. Not the same, but close, and there's no home remodels involved.

I hope I've helped a little bit. I've been dreaming of owning a central vac since I was a kid so I know exactly how you feel. The closest I've gotten has been attaching a 50ft hose to a Dyson and keeping it in a centrally located closet while I clean the rest of the house. It works better than you'd think but it's not electrified and obviously not the same vibe as a real built in vac. One day!

 

[amtraksebo1997]

BagintheBack

I've been thinking about the Vibra Groomer III as an option, more specifically, the Sweep N' Groom variant. However, I personally like the looks of the Whirlpool nozzles better. Also, I've heard others say similar things about Lindhaus nozzles not performing well, which if that's true, then that's a real shame! Of the three amigos of premium power nozzles (Wessel-Werk EBKs, Sebo ET series, and Lindhaus stuff), it seemed to be a good middle-ground between the other two brands. I never liked how loud the Wessel Werk EBK360s were (which to me defeats the big selling point of a CV for me: them being quiet), and while I love the Sebo heads, I don't like their proprietary fittings, limiting the wand's usability. The Lindhaus heads aren't *that* bad at cleaning, right?...

Also, I wouldn't consider installing a GarageVac in my laundry room, as then there'd be no point to it. I have a Nacecare Henry that could do almost everything it could do, and be more useful for cleaning. If i'm gonna install a giant soup can on my wall, I want there to be a good reason for it to be there.

Also I think I remember seeing your Dyson central vac setup. It was pretty interesting, I must say. Also, if you ever get a Lindhaus HF-6 power team, I hear you can use standard 1 1/2 diect-connect CV hoses on it, so that's that.

Thanks for the help either way.

 

[panasonicvac]

We had a SilentMaster with a Stealth powerhead up at our last cabin, it was the best central vac we've ever owned. WAY much better than our Beam at home. Our Beam has a Vibra Groomer III powerhead. It's a good powerhead, but it has some drawbacks. Uses a rubber belt, there's no height adjuster, and the common problem with these powerheads is the brushrolls can get bent easily which causes it to sound even noiser (mine just did that again after replacing it). My grandparents has a cyclonic VacuMaid with a Panasonic powerhead which is technically the same thing that Whirlpool had been using for years, it's my personal favorite central vac. I also like it more than our Beam but even that one has drawbacks as well. As a consumer, I'd definitely pick the SilentMaster with the Stealth as my choice. The Stealth has a lifetime belt guarantee, it has a circuit breaker to shut the powerhead off if it were to get jammed or if the powerhead was adjusted too low to the carpet, a chevron style brushroll which can easily sweep the dirt into the channel, doesn't lift the head up when you're cleaning underneath furniture like the beds, built very solid, rubber wheels, and very quiet. I also love that the brushroll is dishwasher safe and rarely I'd see hair get tangled up in there. Yes it's true that it lacks of agitation, but from my experience it deep cleans just fine as long as you have plenty of suction and airflow. SEBO also makes excellent powerheads as well, personally I like Lindhaus more but either one are great to have. The most powerful powerheads I've ever used by far are the Wessel Werks. Same company that leases them to alot of companies including Miele. I'd recommend that over any Vibra Groomer III or Panasonic powerhead if you want the best cleaning one on the market today. However I also get you'd prefer to have the 90's feel. As much as I love the Panasonic nozzles, I'd recommend the Vibra Groomer III for your needs because parts are now getting harder to find for Panasonic/Whirlpool. In fact my grandparents needs a new motor for their Panasonic but I have to find one used as they don't make those motors anymore or even most of the other parts. If it were up to me, I'd rather retire the Panasonic and upgrade to a Stealth which has also been around in the 90's.

Regarding power units, OVO doesn't really give you the 90's feel cause they're fairly newer designs. They are inexpensive for your needs but either way, I don't like that they use thru-flow motors. That was one of the reasons why I recommended my aunt to get a Allegro over a OVO which is also inexpensive because it uses a bypass motor as it's proven to be a reliable design (doesn't get very hot). Plus they definitely give you a 90's feel cause they've been using that design for years so that's also an idea, my recommendation is to use it as bagged if so.

Last but not least on installation, I'd reach out to your central vac dealers or even centralvacs1928 (Owen) that could give you suggestions or tips on how to safely and do the installation correctly. My grandparents have a cabin and unlike their house, it doesn't have a central vac. I looked to see if it was possible to fit one in, from my view it wasn't and I'm sure the builder couldn't put one in either in the first place. And I even looked again one last time this year when it was completely gutted for renovation to see if maybe we could get away with it if we designed it differently, the dealer agreed it just wasn't going to work. So it doesn't hurt to have some opinions. Anyways, that's my two cents.

 

[amtraksebo1997]

PanasonicVac

Just for right now, the power head/attachment kits aren't the most pressing issue with my CV project. I would really like to get something like a Sebo, Lindhaus, or another similar PN, but to get one in a complete kit would be even more than the power unit I want. Speaking of which, I get that it doesn't match the 90s aesthetic, but it's going to be out of sight, so you wouldn't know by looking at the inlets and hose kit. Right now, I'm just thinking of problems that may arise in installation.

Also, I've done both of those things. I reached out to customer service of that local vacuum store that sells Beam and Vacuflo systems last night, and am still waiting for a response. I also commented on Owen's video comparing the OVO unit I want to an MD Flo-Master, asking about if it was ok if my unit was plugged into a 100 amp breaker, and about the unit's bracket. That guy's the central vacuum god, as I dub him.

Anyways, my main two questions are about having to follow building codes, and if it's a bad thing to have the unit put in the same room as the furnace.

 

[amtraksebo1997]

Some Updates

I've decided to dust off this project once more, and I've been doing some more planning as a part of it. With this, I've made some discoveries, and have done some rethinking.

-I've discovered that only 30 feet of hose is needed to cover both floors, not 35 ft. as I originally thought

-I'm considering moving the downstairs inlet to the other side of the laundry room door, as it'd be a tight squeeze for the valve and pipe to go between the door and the parallel wall.

-I've been open to other options for a power unit, but now I have a better idea of my needs. I need a unit that's between 3-4 feet tall, barely audible from outside of the laundry room, uses (and only uses) disposable bags, only has 1 exhaust port, and does not need a dedicated 15-20 amp breaker. I'd prefer it to be top-emptying, but am open to both styles.


I've attached some pictures that I've sent with the central vac guy that I've been talking with to help me with the install. I made these before I decided to switch the location of the downstairs inlet.

 

[n0oxy]

my toughts on this thread

This was an enjoyable thread to read. I also love central vacuums, I have 16 of them in my collection and since I live in an apartment, I use them all without pipes. Some have a utility valve built in and for those units that don't, I attach a utility valve to the in-take and connect the hose. My favorite utility valve is the one made by Vacuflo since it has built in wires for the low voltage connection.
I don't have the OVO power unit but I think it uses a motor similar to what the Vacumaid garage vac pro uses, also I think the MD Flomaster 650 or Flomaster 700 might use a similar motor. I do have several units that use flow through motors and I've never had a problem with them. I have units from most brands in my collection, other than Nutone and Beam and I really don't have much interest in those. Unless something has changed, Beam units are bagless and I don't like bagless vacuums. Nutone's quality isn't very good which is why I never purchased any of those. The brands I would suggest are Drainvac, MD, Vacumaid, Vacuflo or Cyclovac. There have been a lot of buy-outs and mergers in the central vacuum industry recently. Drainvac has bought Nutone, Beam was originally bought by Duovac, then they both were bought by Cyclovac I think, and Cyclovac has also bought Canavac.
As far as powr nozzles, I have the Sebo, the Lindhaus and several Wessel-werk nozzles. I also have the Eureka power nozzle but I wouldn't suggest that one since it uses a rubber belt that must be replaced. I really like the power nozzles made by Sebo, I would suggest that one or the Wessel-werk EBK360.
It's usually not necessary to vent a central vacuum outside, unless it's a true cyclonic unit. I'll include a link to an article that discusses this.
Mike

https://www.thinkvacuums.com/exhaust/

 

[amtraksebo1997]

n0oxy

I'm flattered to hear that you enjoyed reading through my thread. Central vac collecting sounds super interesting to me, but I don't think I could do it to your extent due to power consumption, practicality, space, etc.

I wouldn't be surprised if OVOs use the same motors that are found in certain MD units, as they definitely sound similar. Hopefully that means that they're on par with each other in terms of suction and airflow, however that's not my main desire out of my central vac, rather I want it to be extremely quiet and well-filtering.

I totally agree, Beams are hot trash. Nutones and other "hybrid" CV units on the other hand are probably decent if you use them with a bag, and take good care of them.

I've been considering the brands that you recommend, however the biggest turn-off for me are the prices for them brand new. I think they're way too high. The next best thing is to look for a used one, but finding a unit that matches my criteria is challenging at best.

I'm pretty dead-set on the Lindhaus Stealth kit at this point. A Sebo ET-1 would be great, but I don't like how the nozzle is not 1 1/4 diameter. As for the EBK-360, it's too loud for my liking (at least from what I've heard of them online). I'm also trying to go for a certain aesthetic for my system, that being 1990s, and the Stealth system fits it pretty well.

I don't buy the whole thing about central vacs not needing to be vented outside, especially when it's coming from a manufacturer of bagless CV units. The entire point of doing so is to exhaust any lingering allergens, carbon dust, and what-not out of the living environment instead of potentially recirculating them back into the living environment. I'm pretty certain that the OVO I've picked out will do a decent job at filtering on its own, but I want to have that peace of mind. Also, what if the OVO hits the dust and is replaced with a more poorly filtering unit at some point in time? Plus, it'd be located close enough to an exterior wall in my house, so I might as well do it.

 

[panasonicvac]

Mike

There's a couple of things that the article failed to mention. They recommend using a ActiVac III filter, BUT they are extremely (and ridiculously) expensive to replace! A replacement exhaust vent that'd last for years is a night and day difference price wise. And the ActiVac III will reduce the airflow. I simply refuse to not vent my own central vac outside even if it's bagged because it'd add more noise to the unit and build up carbon dust on the pipes.

Beam has certainly changed, they're now relabeled CycloVac units and you can use them as bagged because they're hybrid (even this option was available from Nuera Air). If I'm going to be honest, this has been the best thing that's ever happened with Beam because they're now one of the top units on the market today and I certainly wouldn't have a problem of swapping my 1991 Beam out with another Beam.

I think DrainVac taking over NuTone has been a mistake. DrainVac claimed they were going to facelift NuTone, that hasn't happened. However, DrainVac is now selling those NuTone Pure Power units with the DrainVac logo on them. Also thankvacuums.com (or known as Gator Vacuum & Sewing in Florida) taking over as the US distributor for DrainVac has been a mistake. They're a rude and dishonest company (I've read the reviews from Yelp and so forth), in fact I reached out to them one time not too long ago because I needed a part that was a special order and they actually hung up on me. Last but not least, I've noticed DrainVac's quality has gone downhill recently. Not only they cut cost of going back to using Ametek motors (technically they're good motors) but lately someone hadn't been checking out the units from the assembly line. The units would receive defective motors. Anyways, at this moment I have an even harder time recommending DrainVac. While I love my Little Giant unit, it's not my favorite design and it's certainly not worth the price they're asking for. If I wanted a DrainVac, I'd rather get a DuoVac or a OVO instead. I love the new facelift DuoVac units that Trovac has done just like with Beam and Cana-Vac.

 

[amtraksebo1997]

PanasonicVac

If what you're saying about Beam is true, then I take back what I said, as I have a real soft-spot for Cyclovacs. One of my neighbors used to have a Cyclovac system in their home, and it was my first exposure to central vacuums ever. Sadly they moved out, and the current owners ripped it out (smh). However, I still think that their bagless systems (and bagless CV systems in general) are atrocious, but enough said on that.

Also, if what you're saying about ThinkVacuums is true, then that's really not good for my plans. I'm planning on getting my 2-inlet piping kit, muffler, and a few other miscellaneous things from them. I'm only opting for them because that stuff from them is cheaper than others, and I want to keep the costs as low as possible.

 

[n0oxy]

Drainvac, beam and Think Vacuums

That is really a shame if Drainvac's quality has gone down, they are one of my favorite central vacuum brands. I've noticed that the Beam vacuums are now indeed the same ones in the Cyclovac line, that's a very good thing. I have the Cyclovac 7525, it's a dual motor unit that can be configured to have the motors in series or parallel, it is an amazing unit. I run the motors in series, since I connect the hose directly to the unit, I have not noticed any difference at all between just one motor and the second motor in parallel. However, using the motors in series makes a huge difference. There is some debate as to which configuration is better, perhaps when using pipes a parallel configuration makes a difference, but a series configuration definitely increases the performance.
Mike

 

[amtraksebo1997]

Update

So, after some reconsideration of my central vacuum list, I've decided that I'm now just going to buy all of the hardware for it from MD. I looked over the Yelp reviews for ThinkVacuums.com, and you were right PanVac, they were pretty negative. Also, buying everything I need from MD turned out to be much cheaper than if I bought from them, or the other sites that I was planning on sourcing parts from. I've got much more faith in them.

I'm still not entirely decided on a power unit. If I can't decide on one, I'll probably just revert back to the OVO, and if it fails, move to a better brand. I'd like it to be an MD for consistency's sake, but I'm worried about it being too loud, and too circuit-intensive. One of their units would also add $1000+ to the cost, which I could probably make work, but still.

 

[panasonicvac]

You'd probably get a kick out of this Mike. Here's a YouTube video of someone receiving a DrainVac Viper out of the box. Not only it had a defective Ametek motor but also the replacement motor is in fact a Ametek motor as well. Basically tells you that DrainVac is no longer using Domel motors at least the thru-flow ones.



And here's a Facebook post that The Vac Shack in Missouri shared, I'll even paste the quote and pictures as well.

"Out with the old and in with the new! This customer bought a central vacuum online to replace his old Hoover unit, but it arrived defective right out of the box. Customer service was less than helpful since they were in another state. After realizing he needed to find some professional help locally, he contacted us. He now has an American made #Vacuflo central vacuum and also reliable local service to back it up! We service all brands of central vacuums and install the best!"

So the unit bought was a DrainVac Little Giant from thinkvacuums.com to replace the old Cana-Vac built Hoover and the replacement is a Vacuflo DB.

Feel bad for both of these folks as I think they got scammed. So this is why I have a harder time recommending DrainVac these days but one things for certain is I'd NEVER recommend buying from thinkvacuums.com

https://www.facebook.com/TheVacShack/

 

[amtraksebo1997]

PanasonicVac

I think I'm dodging a bullet by not buying from ThinkVacuums. I hope (and expect) MD to be much better.

 

[amtraksebo1997]

blah blah blah new update

So, I've managed to chat with a gentleman who does central vac installs at my local vacuum store chain over the phone. I told him my plans to the best of my ability, and he's willing to help me install my system for an hourly fee.

I told him that I wanted to get the majority of the components from MD, but that I wasn't entirely decided on a power unit at the moment. He told me that a MD Stealth Kit wasn't the best choice for the amount I was paying for it (around $750-$760). He said that it was sort of mid-range when compared to other nozzles, notably the Accclaim (Sebo ET-1) kit.

He also said more-or-less that they could find a better fit for my specifications, and that an it may be tricky to get support for an MD in my state (there aren't any MD dealers in my state unfortunately, not ones that are close anyway). Regardless, he said that they'd still be willing to help with my needs, even if it wasn't with their products. Like I mentioned earlier in this thread, they're a HP and Beam dealer, though he specified that they mainly sold ELement branded HP systems, and that they do sell some lower brands, though I'm not sure what they are. Regardless, he recommended an HP DB3000 for my needs. After looking at it's specs, it looks to be a pretty good candidate, as it's around the height I need it to be, is very quiet, and only draws a maximum of 13 amps.

The other two current candidates are the OVO 550ST-18B that I started out with, and a Modern Day M465h. I chose the latter because it was the cheapest and least electrically-intensive in the Modern - Day range (bypass motor units), or at least so I think.

This leads me into my next point; I'm still uncertain about the whole circuitry situation. Apparently, our washer, dryer, and furnace all run off a shared circuit. All I could really make out of the laundry room breaker switch was that it was rated for 15/20 amps. This has me confused. Is it saying that if just the washer, dryer, and furnace are running simultaneously, then that circuit would be overloaded even without a central vac hooked up to it? I really need to know what's going on here.

What are your guys' thoughts on all of this and what he's been telling me?

 

[centralvacs1928]

The M465H is the old ModernDay Model J. Great unit, great long-lasting motor. I sold a good number of those and they are probably all still going! However, that unit won't have any internal sound damping so it isn't going to be very quiet. Manageable with the outside exhaust and an inline muffler, but not as quiet as the DB3000.

Also, does space allow for the unit to mount lower on the wall? I love the top-emptying classic MD design, but if space is at a premium, a bottom-emptying design (whether from MD, HP, or one of the other brands you were thinking of) might be the ticket.

My go-to units for new (non retractable) installations and swap-outs these days are the Flo-Master F650 (we now have these made in our EOV private label with extra sound insulation so they run exceptionally quiet), or the Vacuflo DB5000 (also private labeled, but these include a nice amount of sound insulation as standard). Both are great units, and the DB's single intake bag is very easy to replace, but I do love how the MD unit has an onboard air relief valve and metal utility inlet.

I wouldn't want to take business away from a local dealer, but if you don't have anybody in your area selling MD, maybe I can help get you what you're after.

As far as electrical, it sounds like your laundry room circuit is already pretty loaded. If needed, you could manage it by only running the vacuum when the washer isn't on (but did I understand correctly that your furnace also shares that circuit? That's not great). Do you have any open spaces in your panel? Might be worth looking into getting some electrical work done, not only to give you a dedicated circuit for the vacuum, but also one for the furnace. I take it you are not in Chicagoland, so you could use non-metallic sheathed cable ("Romex") and be code-compliant.

 

[amtraksebo1997]

Centralvacs1928

Thank you so much for your reply, it was very helpful

I only chose the M465H because it was the cheapest unit with a bypass motor, which I assume is a better type in terms of longevity. However, I only ever plan on using HEPA bags with whatever unit I choose, so I guess a thru-flow wouldn't be a problem. but still. My idea was for the system to be completely fool-proof if we ever move and leave the system there.

I'd say I have about 10 feet of height to work with in the corner, so I theoretically could put in a decently big power unit if I wanted to, but I don't/can't for other reasons The units I'm deciding on are already rated for much larger sized homes. I'd prefer a top-emptying unit for convenience, but like I said, I'm open to both types. However, I really want to gravitate to MD since I'm already getting 90% of my supplies from them (gotta put my OCD at ease), so if a Flo-Master is going to be quieter and cheaper, I suppose I could get one of those instead, depending on the decibel level of those up close. If not, then the Vacuflo is probably the better choice.

I don't know if I'd be able to do business with you because you're not in my state (you're close, but still too far away). Do you sell online by chance?


Finally, I've got an important update about the electrical situation.

It turns out that my air conditioning and furnace have their own dedicated circuits. The washer and dryer both share a 20 amp outlet, and that too has its own dedicated breaker. This means that the outlet I plan on using (it's behind my mom's clothes in the photos I've provided) shouldn't interfere with any of the other appliances in the laundry room! However, it's only a 15 amp outlet, so I can't go completely all-out with a power unit (not that I'd really want to).

It's like the more I plan out this system, the more I realize how easy and seamless it'd be to put in my house!

 

[centralvacs1928]

That's great news. Sounds like all is well with the electrical situation, then. You can run one of these units on a 15 amp circuit as long as it's not shared.

A sound insulated thru-flow motor unit will be quieter than a unit with a bypass motor, and as long as the intake air is filtered, the lifespan should be comparable. The air relief valve prevents the motor running sealed (which would cause a thru-flow motor to burn out much more quickly than a bypass). One benefit of a unit with thru-flow is that the outside exhaust also vents any carbon dust.

We do have online ordering (www.centvac.com) but we don't have all products listed so just send me an email and I can put together an order for you.

-Owen