The Kirby Challenge...

[kirbymodel2c]

And my point was he taking away the the fact that it picked up grit by saying "It wouldn't surprise me in the least if the grit in the is actually left from what's in the emptor."

Just because I touched a nerve with you no need no need to get sarcastic!!

 

[vintagehoover]

Touched a nerve with me?! Someone dares to suggest something might, perhaps, outperform a Kirby and all manner of hand-wringing and hysteria breaks loose!

So other cleaners "eat carpet"? Please show us some proof of that.

 

[kirbymodel2c]

As I said touch a nerve!

James

 

[vintagehoover]

Yup, that evidence seems pretty conclusive to me!

I rest my case!

Jack

 

[tristar]

Wow.......

And the Kirby nuts fall apart once again....

I'm not saying the Kirby is a bad vacuum guys.......it was the first one I collected, and I still swear by it.

Claiming that the Kevlar/Lexan fans will outperform the original metal fan *IS* ignorant. Do your homework. I'm not going to take back a claim of ignorance because it offended you.

I brought up the Emptor issue since the last time the Kirby was used was back in February when I still made videos. The last thing it picked up was coarse cat litter and aspen shavings. Considering that the majority of the "grit" in the bag was pulverized cat litter, it makes sense that it's entirely possible that some of the litter was left in the emptor. I forgot to clean it out before I started. Anyone who has ever used a Kirby for more than 5 minutes knows that heavier particles and small rocks will ALWAYS collect in the emptor. Particularly in the Generation 3-5 machines.

Speaking of "touching nerves" it seems that when the precious Kirby gets egg on it's face everyone loses their marbles.

Chill guys.......it's only a vacuum!

 

[ridgidvac]

If a Kirby had metal brush roll & beater bars it'd outclean a Sanitaire or Hoover Convertible. But a TriStar/Compact w/PN & VG roller OUTCLEANS ANYTHING! I've been using my 1985 Tristar w/VG2 & it outclened the Lux & FQ; it was fun when I had carpet but my 'new' house is all tile & vacing throw rugs ain't as fun as vacing wall/wall carpets. But using any canister vac is fine 4 bare floors (I use the FQ) since carpets aggravate my allergies; now they're only 1/2 as bad now w/tile floors + the FQs.

 

[tristar]

It probably also pays to note that there isn't any "carpet fluff" in the Sanitaire bag. I have a rough-coat collie and she's shedding right now.

In actuality, the only vacuum I've ever had a fluff problem was actually the Generation 3! When the carpet was new, I had to stop halfway through each room and pull the lint ball out of the fan.

Until I got the Sanitaire, it still had problems with "hairballs". Couple passes with a different vacuum and a full bag later and I haven't had the linty carpet issue anymore.

So you know......cut pile carpet will ALWAYS shed. It doesn't matter what vacuum you use....it's GOING to shed.

 

[kirbysthebest]

OH now I get it.

It's the "Kirby Challenge" only if no one actually challenges research technique.

And though I did not say it, nor can I defend the remark "eats carpet"; I read it to mean the "GRIT" is not eating the carpet. Again I am pretty stupid so I can't really be for none to sure.

 

[tristar]

kirbysthebest...

Kindly bend over and remove whatever stick is stuck in your rectum...

Seriously lighten up. You've taken this whole thread as a blatant slam on Kirby. It isn't and wasn't designed to be, but you for some reason feel that it is.

The more you open your mouth, the worse you look. Besides blatant arrogance and disdain for this entire thread, nothing constructive, provocative, or remotely useful has come from any one of your posts.

The thread was created as a comparison. There's plenty of other threads on here with similar outcomes with different machines. Why is it that whenever a Hoover seems to "win a contest" that everyone applauds, but if the "lowly Eureka/Sanitaire" seems to win, everyone gets their panties in a twit? Perhaps you don't like to admit defeat? That's fine.....just be sure to put your head on straight before you go popping off at the mouth with flagrant disregard for the rest of the people on the forum. When you make remarks you can't later back up, it really, truly, makes you look stupid in front of your peers.

This test isn't over......I'll do it in reverse this week. We'll see in the end how valid the results actually are...

 

[kirbysthebest]

Tristar

I know from previous post of yours that you like to attack other posters in order to feel superior. This thread is no different from the one where you tore Brandon a new one because he was being too enthuisastic. May I suggest that your doctor up your meds so that you can learn to play nicer with others.

I don't give a rat's ass if your lowly anything beats anything else--once again I was only questioning your research technique. Which I still feel is flawed. I am sorry that you are too stuck on yourself to accept criticism of any kind that does not praise you.


I will now cease as It is apparent that you are the vacuumland king and must have the last word. I enjoyed coming to this site because I though people were nice and didn't resort to name calling. Apparently I was wrong.

 

[tristar]

Umm.......no......

I never actually "tore Brandon a new one". If you had ANY idea of what went on behind the scenes with that kid, you would have a COMPLETELY different attitude towards him. I know of no less than 4 other collectors he harrassed as well who also blocked his emails, IM's, etc. Unless you know the subject you refer to, it's best not to delve into it.

I am not the "King" of vacuumland. I perfer FACT, not heresay. If you make a statement that's just "heresay" or "rumour", then yes I will call you out on it. Anyone who prefers fact and truthful information will probably do the same thing. I don't really care if you agree or disagree with my tests, or anything else I do, just don't go around flagrantly bashing people because you don't like the topic being discussed.

I too will cease. Just stop with the whole finger-pointing and rumor spreading because you don't like the topic in the thread. Nobody made you read it anyway.

Have you ever put a metal fan into a Generation Kirby? Probably not. Ever replaced a Metal fan in an older Kirby with a plastic or Lexan fan? Again...probably not. If you had, and you'd bothered to do any sort of use yourself, you'd completely and totally understand where the claims of the metal fan being stronger come from. Check Youtube, there's a couple of people with G3's and G4's who have also done it. Ironically, their assessment agrees with mine.

All that *I* am asking is that YOU back up YOUR claims with FACT.

***I'm off my soapbox now...***

 

[hoover_elite_20]

My two cents

Just from my experience I have found that Kirbys have lots of suction but not the agitation. I have compared many different Kirbys from the Sanitronic VII and classic through the Heritage II and G3 and G6. They clean very well but all have sort of poor brushrolls. They seem to just have lots of soft, fluffy bristles. The Kirbys would do better if they put a nice brushroll in them like the royal uprights, with brush stiffeners, and then they would beat a sanitaire. I once compared my Heritage II against my old and now sadly gone Eureka ESP with a VGII I put in it and it beat the kirby by far, because of the vibration. I'm not one of those "lowly Eureka/Sanitaire guys", and that is why. As a matter of fact, they top the Kirbys on my list.

Also on the matter of the fans, I can understand how one could think the G3 would be at a disadvantage, but really it isn't. Some people think just because there are 11 blades instead of 10 and when they turn on the vacuum the plastic fan makes the vacuum sound at a higher pitch that its working better, but no. The metal fan takes a bigger bite out of the air and has much larger blades with more surface area at a different pitch(pitch in this sentence meaning angle like airplane propeller pitch,though the metal fan does have a different sound), and thus moves more air. Also, the lower pitch(sound) of the motor means more load, and more load = more work, and more work = more air being moved, and load being the air, not the belt. When I put a plastic fan in my Classic I immediately found a degrade of performance. I still wish I could find another metal fan. *sigh*

 

[crevicetool]

One time I loaned out my Electrolux Olympia one...

What the heck does this have to do with anything????? I'm a gettin' to it. I have an Electrolux Olympia one that I found in the garbage in 1988. When it comes to that machine, I could be charged with vacuum abuse. - Anyway - I loaned it to someone who was moving, had a (whatever)$40.00 machine, and needed to do some above the floor cleaning. While it was loaned out, and since I don't use any of my restored machines for actual work, I have to say, the house didn't get vacuumed for about two weeks. Yuck! I know!

Then I came back from North Canton. Not the convention. A mini-meet the year prior. While there, I was given a Hoover Convertible. I'm not a Hoover expert AT ALL so, I can only say that it is medium blue, has a vinyl button-snap outer bag, no headlight, and a disappointingly short cord.

Will you please get to a point here?....

The Convertible needed to be cleaned up, and the Lux having been returned, I spent an evening doing a quick tune-up of the convertible. I used the Lux to help clean it. I put a new "C" bag in it, and went to try it out. I could not believe the crap that that Hoover got out of the carpet!!! I was so ashamed of the Lux. Then it occurred to me that I hadn't vacuumed in two weeks, wiped the sweat from my brow, and quickly did the three-square foot test that they taught us when I sold Electrolux. I vacuumed the test area very slowly like you did Eric, with the Hoover. Then I put fresh electrical tape on the Lux aftermarket hose and covered the same area. With a brand-new Arm and Hammer bag in the Lux, It did manage to pull still more dirt out. I was relieved - Whew!

That feeling didn't last long though. I then went and got the oldest, weakest machine I had at the time - my Lux model XII, with the (crude at best) rug tool. I have two NIB cloth bags for my Lux XXX, One Lux issued, one aftermarket. I put the orange aftermarket bag in the XII, clicked in a non-leaking "L" hose, and guess what? While very, very, little the XII managed to pull still more dirt.

Has anyone ever put their ear on the hose end/handle and then vacuumed? You can hear grit, (what I was taught to be the real carpet eater) hit the hose end. Admittedly, one looks pretty ridiculous vacuuming with an ear stuck to the hose, but you CAN hear the sand/grit. Try it. I did that with the XII, and heard grit.

So, now what? Three distinctly different machine types, covering the center portion of the last century from the mid-1930's then the late sixties, and finally, the eighties. All pulled some amount of dirt after the other. Starting with the most powerful to the weakest. Beater bar, brush only PN4, then a hunk of metal with a slot cut in the bottom of it.

Eric, the cut-open bag from the Sanitaire is that a piece of Easter basket grass? I hate that stuff! It's as bad as tinsel at Christmas time.

Long-winded I know. Just wanted to share my experience. Perhaps no one's machine is any better or worse than anyone Else's. Perhaps it's a matter of preference. What works best for the situation, the user, etc.

Rick

 

[aeoliandave]

Matter is neither created nor destroyed..it is converted.

As soon as I'm finished the housework I have to start all over again - the Housewive's Lament. Or Househusband, if you prefer...Houseperson has no snappy ring to it at all.

If one's preferred vacuum cleaner cleans up debris as effectively as we can determine, then why, oh why do we vacuum every week if not every - or several times a - day? Because we know at an instinctive level that the job is never done...and we like to play with vacuums. You know...FUN!

Thank you Rick, for stepping back and reminding us all that this is a dirty world. This and similar fascinating and amusing but ultimately inconclusive discussions - they are discussion, right? Not debates? - simply and effectively points out that we, as collectors and enthusiasts, will never run out of the raw material for which our machines were conceived, built and developed...to manage, contain and disperse the changing decade's industrial and domestic substances, and can happily continue to vacuum as often or as infrequently as we desire. We'll always get some result.

Have 2 vacuums or 500, whichever suits your purpose and passion. Collect the full lineup of one Brandname or strive to run the gamut and cover the feild. Prefer new plastic over vintage metal? Fine by me. All will do the task they were cleverly designed for to the very best of their ability. Save the Whales...collect the whole set!

But as surely as hair grows 1/4" per month, the sun rises and sets and our buildings, cars and ourselves steadily convert to dustmotes every nanosecond that ticks by, the last vacuum cleaner running will always be the winner. That's a sure bet.

...Until someone turns on the next vacuum cleaner waiting in line to fight the War on Filth.

Dave

 

[tristar]

Rick and Dave speak a lot of truth in their posts. I'm glad the thread got back into a discussion! I agree with what Dave said though that every machine will do the best job they can according to their design. Some just work better than others.

Half the fun is trying them out to see what works best for you right? I mean that is why we collect so many different makes and models right? Hopefully I'm not alone in that assumption...

The original purpose of this thread was designed to be an experiment. You always see the Kirby demonstration where the Kirby goes last and pulls up a massive amount of filth, grit, sand, and lint. That's over a small area of the rug too, not the entire house. The results of my testing was done over the entire house! I honestly expected more from the Kirby. Hence my shock and disbelief.

My original point was that this is one of those examples where the last vacuum to go didn't necessarily come out on top. On Saturday, I'll reverse the experiment and make the Sanitaire go last. If the theory goes properly, the Sanitaire shouldn't pick up anymore than the Kirby did right? I, for one, am interested to see if my hypothesis holds true.

 

[tolivac]

WOW-Guess i will have to dig my Sanitaires out and try some more.
On the fan issue I asked a former Kirby dist servicecenter out here about that question of the metal fans in the newer Kirby "G" series machines and his concern was that the larger metal fan blades could overload the motor esp in the hose mode when the motor runs at a higher speed.Yes the metal blades are larger for use with the older Kirby motors that ran slower.Does sound like an interesting experiment though-will have to see if I can find some metal fans.I too prefer them-they do last longer.However I don't think I would want to use the metal fan in the later "G" machines-G6 and later.these have the domed Mini Emptor bag boot as opposed to the flat domed one on the G3,G4,G5 machines.The domed one does allow for more air movement-and the NASA designed tapered blade fan.the test I did with the Sanitare was with the G6-there is a difference.
and when I do my vacuum tests-I too use the machine to do the whole house .

 

[tristar]

Metal Fans...

I've heard issues people have had with metal fans in the newer Kirbys (G5 and later) due to the fan rubbing the back of the fan chamber. I'm assuming something changed in the design between the G4 and G5 when they introduced the Kevlar fan!

While the blades are larger on the metal fans, and the motor DOES run slower with the metal fan installed vs. the plastic fan, I haven't seen any evidence of the motor being overloaded in either mode. That was a concern of mine at first too! When plugged into a wattmeter, the machine doesn't pull any excessive current beyond what it is rated. When running, it does pull about 20-30w more than it does with the plastic fan, but still safely below the rating plate.

 

[ohio_tuec]

Eric,

For us Kirby buffs, this is a tough pill to swallow. But if what you say is true (and I can neither confirm or deny this) could you do a waterlift test of a Kirby Generation 3 with a Kevlar fan vs. one with a metal fan? That way, we could all see just how much using a metal fan improves the performance of the machine.

 

[tristar]

I can do that...

I have the Kevlar fan at the house for it. I'll stick it in there and do a comparison. I don't know that the water lift will change much, but the airflow is a TREMENDOUS difference. It's one of those things you have to witness yourself to understand.

I have the gauge and the tools to do the comparison. I'll do it this evening.

Keep in mind......the Kirbys don't have much water lift. They're all about airflow....and lots of it.

 

[ohio_tuec]

If you could, that would be super. I would think if there's a change in airflow, there's gotta be one in water lift as well. I have the Baird Air Flow meter for Kirby, but it already pulls a 10 with the Kevlar fan. And this way, we can all see what a difference a metal impeller makes.