The Great HEPA Debate

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We certainly have come mountains from the

"Fabulous Dudtpan". An, coincidentally, the late Murray Spangler had asthma!!!!I've seen people who fill their bags almost to the very top, ignoring altogether the printed notice:Replace bag when dirt reached this line"- - - - - - - - - - - - -
But, then again, others just like to rattle the slats of others by bashing a vacuum or a vacuum company.

I've HAD to run an Oreck at work, a Kirby at our church, a Miele at the home of someone I was involved with, and so on. I used them. Some had nice qualities... I'd never seek them out, but I don't bash them, either . 'Do I bash"? Nope. Oh, trust me, I COULD, but, sometimes the "high road" is best, if not always the easiest route.
So, if you like Hepa, knock yourself out. If you like paper, likewise. If you like bag less......have a ball. I'm quite content with my cleaners and a lifetime supply of genuine bags: both paper and hepa.
 
I think it's funny that some people believe a model LX Electrolux ejects the bag "5 or 6 feet". When the front door opens, the motor is still running at full speed. The ejector can only eject the bag, at most, about one foot. Not nearly enough force to go five or six feet.

While homes will always have dust in them, there's no need to add dust to the air with standard paper bags. My Hoovers with GENUINE type C bags (A bags as well), always belch dust as they start up and while running. Look at a running convertible in the direct sunlight. BELCHING dust. And after ten minutes, hopelessly clogged. Regular paper bags are the hardest on a vacuum's motor.
 
Kenneth

That's an old Rainbow sales tactic.   Bright light shows the dust flying from the machine. 


 


Bags are of a porous  material and even the HEPA type are going to allow something that is small enough pass. 


 


Funny thing, in the 80s a well known consumer magazine reported that even the Rainbow was not 100% efficient in capturing "Non-Wettable" dust.  Hence the after filter.


 


The loss of suction, though not as dramatic, does happen.  Then there is the "storing dirt in your closet."


 


 


 


 
 
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@tom Gasko - I have made videos of one of my LXs ejecting bags for as far as five feet, and have seen them go flying even further than that with LXs that still have a very strong ejection mechanism.

If you don't believe me, see the link below which shows it in slow-motion.

http://www.1377731.com/0000137/lux.lx.eject.slow.mo.mov
 
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Something funny about the LX: When the motor shuts off and the front cover pops open, the bag makes a "poooh" sound like when you blow up a balloon and let the air escape by stretching the mouth tightly open.

Which, of course, is basically what's happening -- air is still getting sucked in through the rubber membrane in the top of the bag for just a second when the tiny hole in it snaps shut as the chrome snout in the front cover is pulling out of it.


http://www.1377731.com/0000137/lux.lx.pooh.mov
 
What the heck is going on in this thread?  It's degenerated into sex talk?
smiley-wink.gif



 


...not that I'm complaining.


 


 


 


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Seriously, If the Hepa's aren't paper, they must be a woven synthetic.  right?


 


1. I have a problem with that because that means they aren't likely to break down in a landfill.  They aren't that big, but.......


 


2. wouldn't that make them cleanable?..... and thus reuse-able?   I mean we're basically talking about something like Tyvek house wrap that's been made into a vacuum bag.  That's what it sounds like.


 


<span style="text-decoration: underline;">If</span> these are readily cleanable, who can argue with that.  Very Eco-friendly.


 
 
Bag breaking down in a landfill-really NOTHING breaks down in a landfill-at best MAYBE very slowly.To break things "down" we need air,and UV rays from the Sun.Wind,rain,snow help,too.Sanitary landfills as the name says bury the trash so it isn't seen or blows around.Debris from old landfills has been dug up-and largely INTACT!!The old newspaperrs still could be read!What would be more eco "freindly"?A bagged vacuum that can last for many years or a bagless one set out for the trash after a couple years?The unfortunate vacuum put on the curb first gets crushed by the compactor mechanism in the trash truck.Next it is run over by a landfill compactor tractor dozer-same as the other trash.This machine has large,steel "gear" wheels that crush and further pulverize things as the tractor runs over them.The blade on the front spreads the debris.These machines are VERY heavy-often weighing in at 100 tons!So---that Filtrete bag is going to be SHREDS and well stompted shreds at that after the compactor runs over it!And with bagless vacuums so common-see "poofs" of dust coming from trash trucks as the unbagged debris is packed into the truck.And of course that stuff that gets into the air!
 
Belching dust

<span style="font-size: 14pt;">It seems to me, if said author is experiencing a Convertible belching dust, it might be wise to find a capable individual to easily remediate the problem by sealing whichever end of the bellows is responsible for the problem.  It would not be the genuine 'C' bag but rather a leaking air passage.  Problem solved; not really rocket science.</span>


<span style="font-size: 14pt;">RBinOC</span>
 
HEPA bags are spectacular!!!

Breathing and health issues aside, HEPA bags are fantastic. All of the HEPA bags that I've ever tried are a larger size than standard paper. I've tried generic and Genunine manufacturer bags. This means larger surface area. Larger surface area means more airflow escape points!!! Additionally most good HEPA like bags have a plastic piece on the portion of the bag directly infront of the bag intake. So now rather than that huge dust belch directly in front of the bag inlet on your Hoover Elite bag doors, or bottom of canister vacs, as examples, below the swivel hose connection, it is nice and clean as dirt can't stick or be blown out of the bag in that area anymore!!!

Typically you would think that with the HEPA having smaller pores for the air and dirt to pass through, that the bag would choke off quicker. In my experience, the reverse is in effect!! Due to the bags being more of a cloth or synthetic like material, it's almost like the inside of the bags are knitted and possibly treated in a way that the dirt does not clog the pores near as quick or to the point of a standard paper bag or especially near to that of a Sanitaire style shake out bag.

Bag compartmentment cleanliness and overall machine cleanliness, pre and post motor filter life and motors all stay FAR cleaner with the use of HEPA bags!! Talk about saving money- wouldn't we like the vacuums filters to last longer before replacement!!!! While many filters can be washed, you can really only wash a filter a few times before they get too worn and deformed or tattered.

Prior to HEPA bags in my canister vacuums, I would have to quarterly give a machine a thorough cleaning inside and out of the bag compartment and wash or replace filters. Now I'm at the point, I can't remember the last time I had to do the tedious chore of wiping out a bag compartment. I'm sure I don't have to describe how every plastic housing bag compartment on an upright and canister has tons of nooks and crannies that are very hard to clean and almost seem to need a Q-tip or you end up cutting your hands up sometimes trying to clean bag compartments!!

The dust level created by a paper bag is much easier to see when using a gorgeous vivid color of a navy blue Eureka World Vac hard case upright, navy blue Hoover PowerDrive upright, Black Kenmore canister vacuum cleaner, etc!!! Give any of these machines a standard bag length with absolutely no cleaning to the machine at all during that time frame and then put the entire machine under a very bright light!! Now imagine if that dust amount can collect on the machine in that small few weeks period of time, what is going into the air in your home to land in your lungs, on the circuit boards of your televisions, and computers, your classy furniture, children's lungs, etc, etc.!!!

Vacuums are powerful machines pulling the filth off of surfaces whether it be the 1000's of dead skin cells shed by the human body on a daily basis or outside elements. All of that filth sits inside of a dark, warm, filthy environment of your vacuum bag festering, and breeding more bacteria, dust mites, and germs for weeks, then air rushes into those environments and we breathe that air as it is rapidly expelled back out into the room every time the vacuum cleaner is run!!! Would you want to drink water that was passed through that environment of a filth laden vacuum bag but then filtered by the thin paper???? Why breathe it, now that the technology and science is there to help us!!!

I can't stress enough in my experience how HEPA bags despite a little more costly better retain air flow in the vacuum cleaner, keep your vacuum cleaner clean, prolonging filter life, much better retention of odors, a cleaner home environment to reduce your dusting, and a healthier environment in general!!!

Also for price variation try HEPA similar bags in green and white packaging by Envirocare. I love this distributor. Try doing numerous searches on their site for various items. They are categorized different ways and I generally use the search bar for better selection!!
3 Pack Hoover S bags of this style: $3.03,
3 Pack Kenmore C/Q canister bags of this style $2.69
3 Pack Hoover Y bags $2.59

I read some of the comments of the need for dirt and germs. Keep in mind this is not running an air cleaner and not washing your walls or your floors, it's just a method to capture as much as possible the filth from your upholstery and flooring that you were using the vacuum cleaner as it's intended function to do!!! There is still plenty of filth and germs outside, in your work environments, our schools, etc. But you don't have to breathe that stuff in when cleaning your home for it linger in the air while you and your family sleep!!

http://www.discountcleaningproducts.com/Kenmore-Repl-Style-Q-Paper-Bag-3-Pk-Envirocare-p/a137.htm
 
My adaptation on Genuine bags!

I'm using Hoover for this example!

I'm a huge supporter and love only to use Genuine manufacturer bags or parts. Hoover is my favorite canister vacuum cleaner of all time!! I have 8 Hoover power nozzle canister vacuums in my house currently from early Hoover Celebrity II Elite to Hoover Windtunnel Bagless. However Hoover isn't the same company that they were years back. I don't think TTI has any care for their great heritage and as it sounds like Maytag steadily led them towards a downhill path and didn't take good care of the factories that were in North Canton, Ohio, which are now therefore closed down.
Hoover no longer manufacturers the green standard filtration bags that I actually liked years ago and still can find on rare occasion!! However, the new white replacements are very cheaply made and don't filter near as well nor have as good a performance on the machine. Despite my love of Hoover power nozzle canister vacuums, they sadly don't even have one on the website that I have any interest in getting if I was in the market for a new!! 10 years ago that decision would have still been easy when they had PowerMax and Windtunnels with the Spectrum suction body styling!!

It is with that said, that I have no problem recommending generic bags of Envirocare or if I come across something good from DVC, etc.
 
I have to throw in my experience on that brand Q bag for Kenmore. I have tried 3 packages, they filter very well and maintain suction, BUT, the cardboard collar on them will pull away as they fill or get any resistance. I have had to tape them to the bag hangar to avoid this, just too thin collar I think?
 
Vacuumlad1650

I'm just giving my 2 cents and opinion on HEPA filtration vacuum bags based on experience! I'm 33 years old and have done house cleaning on the side since my first customer when I was 12 years old!! In those 21 years of cleaning clients, helping grandparents, aunts and uncles clean their homes, cleaning my college fraternity house, commercial cleaning, vacuum collecting and performing vacuum refurbishment I have gained lots of experience with many many different vacuums over the years. Since I have to use the machines, I maintain them so I accomplish my work more efficiently.

I DEFINITELY feel your pain financially!!

Despite my house cleaning and hard working abilities my career path has never led where I'd hoped!! I have a Bachelors Degree, Real Estate Sales licenses for 2 states and a Health and Life insurance license, Filter Queen and Rainbow sales experience. Filter Queen and Rainbow only led to incredible vehicle mileage with high fuel usage and township solicitation issues that distributors wouldn't help with extraneous $50/ week permit costs by those townships to advertise legally!! I've been plagued by poor real estate markets, poor direction and set up for success by AFLAC, bad restaurant markets where Regional Managers won't promote from that area cause those stores weren't high performers and a host of other things!! None of the career paths I've tried have led anywhere sadly!. So I'm a single 33 year old, renting an apartment on extremely low income. Finally I decided to take another jump start and I'm now back in school working to add onto my Bachelors Degree with an Associates Degree in Computers with an internship at the end of the program!! I'm really hoping that this program is my "Light at the end of the Tunnel!!

Despite being low income with high credit card debt I wake up every day trying to focus on the positives and that with the wonderful staff at the school and very high job placement rate in a couple years I'll be just fine!! But until then I'm good at online research and found very very low prices on vacuum bags from the link I posted above that are near HEPA grade!! I appreciate family, friends for support and a few of my vacuums were gifts from various collectors.

You initiated this thread and I feel in reading some of the comments that for some reason you seem very defensive and at times disrespectful towards just about every members response on their opinions and inputs.

Vacuumland is a website where vacuum enthusiasts can come together to discuss, share, and learn from each other. Whether it be joys of owning a collection and marveling over the fantastic restoration work members have accomplished to giving and receiving repair advice and other tips. I urge that we all consider this family like environment in responses and be able to accept, courteously discuss and possibly consider new techniques and advice from each other rather than the alternative.

Happy Vacuuming and Happy New Year to all!
 
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