The Great HEPA Debate

[delaneymeegan]

Good point and description Charles.
While Electrolux hasn't made those obnoxioius self ejecting machines in like....60 years or so, there are still those who use them.

I love your description:
"....important with a (correctly functioning) LX or LXI. When the machine shut off and ejected the bag, the bag would sail -- at great speed -- across the room for 5-6 ft. When the bag landed on the floor, if the membrane wasn't sealed, dirt would "poof" out of the opening. "

LOL. On the one hand, this IS basically what happens. On the other hand, it sounds like a scene from a Doris Day movie. LOL.

It's kind of a conundrum. If one is in fact using an LX or LXI, you would definitely want to keep the tab BUT much like when using any other Electrolux WITH THE TAB in place, you will have dust leakage.

I can understand a possible reason for the tab on the canister bags. However, the upright bags were never self ejecting that I know of. I started using the upright Electrolux in 1997 and always had good results. I always removed the tab and never had any problems with dust seepage.  


 


I owned several uprights, and like the canisters, would frequently find them with the bag and WITH the tab in place. [shaking head].   ...and the usual amount of dust in the bag chamber.
 



 
Oddly, I did happen upon a canister bag with a tab. Don't know what the purpose of it is. They only made the vacuum for a few years. I don't know if it is supposed to be removed. Dirt Devil Can Vac bags. Haven't bought any YET.  These bags were certainly never meant to be ejected mechanically.


 


The bag door on a can vac has a thick rubber collar that presses against the front of the bag, thus sealing it, so I don't know if these bags will have a rubber seal.  As a result of that rubber seal, the cardboard tab won't make a difference in how the machine seals.


 


I think it's fair to say that the Electrolux LX and LXI were flawed designs.  Fun though. 


 


 

 

[electrolux137]

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Well, even lacking the ejection feature, the point in the tab is still to seal the hole in the rubber membrane so dirt doesn't leak out when you change the bag.

It does work -- you can drop a full bag on the floor and no dirt will escape. It's one of the "many exclusive features that only your Electrolux® Cleaner can offer!"

If you remove the tab, you defeat the reason for it being there.

 

[delaneymeegan]

LOL


 


"It's one of the "many exclusive features that only your Electrolux® Cleaner can offer!" " 

 


 


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yeah, but a square of duct tape or packaging tape over the opening of ANY bag opening will definitely seal it from spillage.   A cardboard tab however does not have the benefit of adhesion. 


Once it's sealed you can drop it as many times as your clumsy self feels necessary.  Even turn it into a small pillow for your pet.


 


It's interesting, one of my recent vac purchases, they sent me like 3 big boxes worth of Electrolux bags.  I won't ever have to buy these bags AGAIN, unless I develop a baby powder addiction and decide to use my vacs every day.   When the world comes to an end as it's scheduled to in -2012-, no 2014, no I think they've rescheduled 'the end of the world' for 2016 PST, date TBD,...... at least I can use by Electrolux..... if I can find electricity. 


 


Anyway, they sent some bags I don't need, nor know what model they are for.  Style RR, apparently for an upright, and look what is part of the bag.   I've never seen this before.  A pre-applied square of tape with removable wax paper backing.  Because apparently, the average American can not coordinate a roll of tape AND a vacuum cleaner bag at the same time.  It's just too much of a burden, for sure. 

 

[blknblu]

Eureka's web site indicates the RR bag is for Eureka 4800 series upright vacuums.

 

[electrolux137]

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There is no need for adhesiveness in the cardboard tab.

The sealing quality comes from the small opening in the rubber membrane in the top of the bag squeezing tightly around the cardboard tab when the front cover is opened and the steel "snout" is thus withdrawn from inside the membrane of the bag. It does work. There would be no point in fumbling with a roll of tape or whatever as long as the tab is kept intact (and not pulled off).

Air-Way used to provide little adhesive stickers to close off the hole in their bags -- similar to the Eureka bags you showed above. It worked but was more complicated than Electrolux's patented self-sealing bags.

 

[vacuumlad1650]

The point of the cardboard tab is too keep the bag closed. ALL my bags have them for One reason. so they DONT leak dust. I have no dust in my bag chambers. I never will. The tab wont allow leakage, a bad bag, or bad door seal will. if the seal around the part that sticks INTO the hose is bad or gone, it will leak
Andy Rousonelos

 

[kirbysthebest]

HEPA too much pull on motor

I actually find the cloth type HEPA bags are easier breathing than the paper bags.  

 

[vacuumlad1650]

Just a few new thoughts
HEPA Bags
-I really cant see it on a bypass machine. id rather use my paper bags in front of the motor, and put a filter behind the motor (not always the case)
-I CAN see using HEPA bags (if you wish to do so) on a Direct Air machine. There wont be a pull on the motor, as well as good exhaust filtration combined with an easey breathe bag. I dont plan to do this. Just a thought
HEPA Filters
-This IS one thing i can see, in some cases. In the case of my Kenmore Progressive 300 Upright, its practical, as it is a fairly sealed machine as well as the filter has a gasket on it to lower air leakage (currently has a better seal as my Filter Cover Door is missing. I use a Bungee cord which holds the fliter tight on the machine)
-Electrolux Canisters (Plastic Body) This is useful as the exhaust is forced through the filter. Weather they make a HEPA for that, I dont know. i choose not to use them if they exist. Im not paying extra for HEPA in that case. My 4 ply bags catch more than the Blue Aerus Home Solutions bags
-My Kenmore Canisters, are not practical to use a HEPA filter. They have NO seal whatsoever. It would be a waste
Just My Two Cents
*the last picture of the HEPA cover is off FLEABAY* The filter cover was missing when i received the vacuum
Andy Rousonelos
Also, yes, that is a drier sheet on the Lux filter. They smell so good! I use them ALL the time!

 

[vacuumlad1650]

I went to Sears yesterday for (generic) Kenmore Upright Bags. I found them, and a girl who worked there kept pushing the HEPA bags. I kept saying no. She wouldnt stop with the 'awful dirt and germs in the air' rampage. i finally said, look Sweetie, im not trying to be rude, but I Collect and Repair vacuums. All The Time. HEPA is a Joke and I know what I'm doing. She walked away, steaming, grumbling about how 'everyone is an expert'
Andy Rousonelos

 

[tolivac]

Clean air machines can benefit from the HEPA bags and HEPA filters before the motor-even if the motor is full bypass-the fine stuff is kept out of the motors suction fans-the fine stuff can cause the motor to run out-of balance.Noise,and bearing, motor failure can happen.Remember the motor is the HEART of your vacuum!!We don't want any vacuum cleaner "heart" attacks!

 

[henrydreyfuss]

Can't say I agree, Vacuumlad,

HEPA bags and sealed HEPA vacuum cleaners are a huge step forward. Aside from maintaining suction much longer, HEPA bags have several other benefits, such as keeping bag chambers, motors, and the cleaners other filters spotless, and slowing the occurrence of odors. I love how on lots of newer machines (or upgraded older machines), there's peace-of-mind that ALL the dust is staying inside the vacuum. Even if you're not concerned about the improvements in filtration technology in terms of bacteria and air quality, good filtration will protect the vacuum, and help it run longer. Good HEPA bags help the vacuum's suction and airflow, not hurt it.

Also, keep in mind that true HEPA filtration isn't always achieved, despite what companies say. Your Kenmore, for instance, is not a true HEPA machine, as that exhaust filter doesn't have a good-enough seal to really declare it so. However, if you used the excellent Kenmore HEPA bags (which you can practically steal on ebay), your machine's filtration would improve greatly. Make sure the filters are clean though! I've repaired dozens of that model Kenmore, and they were originally made before HEPA bags were a thing. The bag chambers were always filthy, and a bear to clean thanks to their grid-pattern in the plastic. I have a new Kenmore Intuition that's currently getting a workout at a friend's house, and the inside of the bag compartment is immaculate, despite the heavy use, thanks to the improved bag.

When I first got my Numatic Henry, I went through a bunch of regular generic 2-layer paper bags. They were ok, and thankfully Henrys have great pre-motor filters. However, once I upgraded to the HEPA-flo synthetic bags, the difference was immediately noticeable. The HEPA-flo bags could handle MUCH more fine dust, and still maintained strong suction. They don't leak, and you can fill them with pounds of heavy, soot-like dirt before they need to be changed.

I use good HEPA bags in all my vintage machines that have an option, and primarily use vacuums that have sealed HEPA filtration in daily use in my home.

One side note: You may not be concerned about vacuum dust or filtration, but I would NEVER use dryer sheets over the exhaust of any vacuum, as an air freshener. They smell nice, but then you're essentially spewing poison throughout the room when you vacuum. Dryer sheets are made with toxic chemicals, and not meant to be sprayed around a room, and breathed in for prolonged periods of time. You'll get your family sick!

 

[suckolux]

Honestly, the Perfect Hepa bags made night and day difference in my Silverado. I have always used the factory paper bags, but about the third or fourth time I would use the machine I would notice the drop in air flow sound, and the smell of old dust, tried the bags, both are gone! Bags last so much longer it never drops the airflow! And the bag chamber stays so clean! It looked good before, until I put a white pre motor filter in there. One genuine Lux paper 4 ply and that filter was almost black. NO THANKS

 

[vacuumlad1650]

Well, for me, I really dont need HEPA. After I get a vacuum, no matter how clean it it, i SCRUB it thouroughly. All my Lux's use paper aftermarket bags (currently) and their bag chambers are SPOTLESS (minus the Diplomat...LONG story)
My Kenmore's...the bag chambers were Dirty, but they all had full, ripped bags
My Hoovers came to me Like New!

 

[suckolux]

are you taking out the motors and cleaning the fans? It gets in there too

 

[vacuumlad1650]

Well, I did on my Lux LX, and L. Nathan Thomas (Electrolux Dude, he calls himself My Friendly Electrolux Salesman, referencing the Model E) Serviced all my other Electrolux's within the past six months, and he cleaned them
I re-built the motor in my Kenmore Upright, hoping it would get rid of its musty smell (finally went away) but the others i have yet to work on. My Hoover Upright really needs to have the fan cleaned, since its direct air, as well as its bearings oiled. Hasnt been serviced since 2000
Andy Rousonelos

 

[delaneymeegan]

Suckolicious/David, did you remove the tab on the paper bag?

You should try it. It makes a difference.

 

[suckolux]

I have not, there is such a good seal on the door I can't imagine it changing anything. The Perfect bags have that part too, no leaks in over a year, pre filter still looks new.

 

[vacuumlad1650]

i really see no reason to remove the seal tab from the bag. it has been put there for a reason

 

[electrolux137]

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@vacuumlad1650 - Exactly.

 

[vacuumlad1650]

I intentionally keep those on my bags! it seals the opening with the rubber membrane