Tacony Tandem Air Suction Not Too Great

[shrink1982]

I have noticed on my Maytag 1200 the suctions through the hose is not all that great. Once I extend the wand and and add the dusting brush I can definitely tell the difference. The suction just isn't on par with my Sebo D4 premium. In fact, the suction is about as good as the suction I get if I hook the hose up to a Kirby, which seems odd considering it has direct suction only. I am not sure if the Maytag underperforms on suction only because the wattage of the machine is split between the two motors resulting in a much less powerful suction motor than what you get on a machine that only has a suction motor. I am not an engineer I just know what my experience has been. I have also noted that the part of the hose that clips into the hose handle, there is a slight leak of air. It is very subtle but I can feel it. It isn't sealed well but I don't blame that for the performance as it is very minimal. I think the suction motor is underpowered. It would be nice if the suction motor would pull more electricity and speed up when the direct air motor and brush roll are turned off. Has only else noticed this on Tacony models with TandemAir?

 

[tolivac]

You nailed it-the clean air motor in the Tacony tandem air machines is like 6A-about the same as the direct air-brush motor.So when you have both of these together-its 12A the 80% rating for a 15A 120V circuit.I don't use either the Kirby or Tandem air uprights in the hose mode only-have MANY canisters for that job-and they work better!Esp the central vacs.Just use the uprights for the WW carpet in my place.I would so like to see the tandem air uprights lose the hose or make it separate as on a Kirby-they make the machine clunky and awkward.Other wise I like the tandem airs.Very unique and effective on carpets.

 

[tolivac]

I am anxious to get the Tacony Tandem air canister-this may be the best of both worlds-tried a demo one and was quite impressed.The canister motor is more powerful than the clean air one in their uprights.Plus the hose is longer and easier to use on the canister.

 

[n0oxy]

hose useage

When it comes to using a vacuum with a hose, canisters are the way to go. While many upright vacuums have hoses, they are not near as flexible, this is why I'm a huge canister fan and don't have any uprights, nor do I want any. It's personal preference of course, but canisters, whether a canister itself, central vacuum, or a backpack are simply more flexible. Use a power nozzle and you have carpet cleaning performance as good as an upright, for hard floors or above the floor, switch to the appropriate attachment, canisters are really the best of all worlds when it comes to a vacuum. Many uprights do not have as much cleaning power when using the hose, and the hoses are usually shorter, and there's no easy way to get the vacuum to follow you while cleaning. A canister vacuum does not have any of these issues.
Mike

 

[sebo4me]

Or you could use an upright for deep cleaning carpet such as a Kirby or Royal and a canister for all other cleaning. Makes a good combo.

 

[n0oxy]

upright and canister combo

This does work, but with a good power nozzle canister, you can get the same cleaning on carpets that an upright provides. The key is to have a good power nozzle and have the height adjusted correctly.
Mike

 

[sptyks]

I'd like to see any canister with any PN match my Kirby Sentria or my Royal 8300 on carpet.  A canister PN just does not have the weight needed to seal to the carpet and agitate it properly.


 


 

 

[kirbylux77]

Oh brother, here we go AGAIN!!

Stan, you just HAD to go ahead & bring up the topic of whether canister powerheads can seal to carpets again, eh?! Good grief, don't you know when a topic has been talked about & debated so many times it's pointless & non-productive? Seriously. It's time we put that topic to rest PERMANENTLY....it's quite obvious to me certain members will never agree with others, & it's just best to agree to disagree & not bring it up again.

As for the Maytag M1200, Riccar & Simplicity tandem air uprights having lower hose suction/airflow than average....I have to wonder if part of the reason why it was designed this way was so that the airflow from the direct air motor & the airflow from the clean air motor would be balanced. So that the clean air motor's suction/airflow wouldn't be so strong that it might overpower the direct air motor & possibly cause damage? Just a guess here.

And, just in case anyone is curious, the suction/airflow the clean air motor on the Tandem Air uprights produce would be considered average by the industry. Most "lower end", "disposable" or "retail" brands, like Hoover, Eureka & Dirt Devil, historically those clean air uprights have produced 60" waterlift. It's only when you buy a premium vac shop brand, such as the Panasonic/Kenmore uprights, Tacony uprights, Samsung, etc, that you start to see higher waterlift ratings, most of those brands are about 70" waterlift, sometimes as high as 80"-85".

Rob

 

[sebo4me]

I agree with you Rob. I think it's to do with getting a balance between the direct air and clean air motor. It's a good design but personally I'd still prefer a single motor.

The direct air Riccar canister PN that will be available soon does interest me a lot. I will be interested to see how well it performs.

 

[electromatik]

@sptyks

Your claim is demonstrably false.

 

[sptyks]

electromatik:

Here is proof that my claim is demonstrably correct and that you are clearly wrong!


 





 


 

 

[kirbylux77]

Stan - Oh really? No, you're not right at all! If the video you're using as your proof was with a canister vacuum using a full size powerhead, not the compact Miele powerhead, you could say it's a fair comparison. But those compact powerheads can only clean low pile carpet effectively, where there isn't a lot of carpet nap to brush through. You can't compare that to a full size upright with a full size powerhead that can clean ALL carpet types effectively.

Also, Mikko is using sawdust in his test, not normal dirt from normal vacuuming that he could have collected & spread out. Sawdust would clog a vacuum bag much more quickly than normal dirt. There's a reason vacuum collectors have criticized Consumer Reports in their testing of vacuums for using fine talc & sawdust to replicate dirt in their tests. Therefore, the 2 vacuums would lose their airflow much more quickly than normal, & is NOT a true reflection of the cleaning results one could expect using either machine.

Rob

 

[sebo4me]

Good points Rob.

I would still like to see a canister/cylinder cleaner that can match the performance of the Kirby.

My MD central vac might well do. It's has very high suction and airflow. I can feel it pulling the dirt up deep down into the carpet pile. I use it with a Sebo ET1 which is a very effective PN.

 

[mike811]

Kirby vs canister vacuums

I don't think that there is a canister vacuum cleaner what can match the Kirby in a deep cleaning. However some come quite close. For example my Nilfisk GM80 with the full size Wessel Werk EBK 340 ph comes very close.
Now it's important to know, that the Nilfisk pulls 109 cfm from the hose end. I would say that it is pretty impressive for a clean air motor system.
I haven't done direct comparison video between those two, but maybe I should.
Here is my latest deep clean comparison video where Kirby won.
Note that the Lux Royal had a small ph in this test. It pulls 104 cfm from the hose end.

 

[tolivac]

Hmmm-Maybe I should try my Volt powernozzle with my Nilfisk GM 80 canister vacuum!Stangely---My Nilfisk came from the trade in pile in the Kirby salesmans van!The Nilfisk I have came with an air powered powernozzle-could see how the Kirby could beat that one.

 

[sebo4me]

I'm glad to see the Nilfisk comes close to the Kirby

I would like to see the Volt in action.

 

[n0oxy]

canister and upright comparison

If you have a good amount of suction and airflow, and a full sized power nozzle, I would think it would clean as well as an upright. That MD central vacuum and the Sebo power nozzle should be a great cleaning combination, I would think that would be comparable to an upright. As far as the volt, I would say give it a try with that nilfisk vacuum, see how it works. I have never seen a Nilfisk but have heard they are very good. Here is a youtube video about the volt nozzle, it provides a good overview of how it works.
Mike

 

[sptyks]

Rob,


 


The results of Mike's latest video prove once again that upright vacuums, especially Kirby, are far superior in cleaning performance. to any canister/power nozzle combination.


 


I have a 10 amp Royal Everlast 8300 that out cleans my Kirby Sentria. I would like to see any canister with PN even come close to matching the performance of my Royal.


 


~Stan


 


 

 

[sebo4me]

A central vac with over 1000 airwatts and 200 CFM will match a Kirby. I've seen it with my own eyes as I own both.