SEmigewerbliche BOdenpflege Felix Vogue ECO!

[marcusprit]

I wasn't arguing that Sebo's are cheaper to run Miele they clearly are. I'm saying that the Miele bag is the best I've seen with 9 layers.

Good to see Sebo improving though.

 

[sebo_fan]

Yes, but and I didn't want to say this - but I will now.

Miele are clever with their marketing! The more layers they add, the more money they charge. It's all about business and less about health. The current filters available are evidence of that - the Active Air Clean which I use is cheaper to buy than the so-called "HEPA" filter for those with allergies. I can promise you that there is very little difference between the two. Miele knew that for years - the reason being that the current TimeStrip filters no longer have the charcoal added to the HEPA filter grid that Miele overly charge.

On the basis that Miele claim BOTH filters shift 99.95% of allergen/emissions, one has to ask what is the point of the HEPA filter if it can't shift more over the carbon added Active Air Clean filter?

Smell the coffee yet?>

 

[marcusprit]

Well if that is correct that the active air filter filters just as well then I agree with you. I'm not convinced that it does though. Its just a piece if felt. The carbon filters odour. The HEPA media must filter better. But if as you say it's only a tiny amount then I might try the active air cleaner next time.

 

[sebo_fan]

The AAC filter originally carried the promise "suitable for smokers and pet owners."

Now, over the smoking aspect which is clearly obvious that the carbon can soak up and neutralise, what does it do for pet owners? Absorbs the smell of pet hair and pet allergen. Hence why SEBO's charcoal filters are available ALSO for pet owners.

Im not sure what "felt" you are referring to, though.

The name "media" has only been applied to HEPA in recent years. In my experience it refers to a washable HEPA filter that not all brands choose to call it. Bissell have used the name "Media" to suggest that their HEPA filters are washable and only contain paper pleats behind a plastic grid.

 

[sebo_fan]

The other thing to remember here is that Im giving you my experience and my knowledge. Miele and so many other brands would like to think otherwise.

When I handed over my old SEBO X1A to my aunt who has asthma and other breathing difficulties, there was no need at the time to install the charcoal filter in the SEBO. She didn't feel that the vacuum cleaner was emitting "rotting air" or whatever was in the bag at the time. I did offer the charcoal filter but she didn't require it.

A lot of the time it comes down to a lot of marketing and the requirement to buy the best at the highest price. However with actual experience, a basic filter can often supply a good performance IF the vacuum cleaner in question has been built well, contains air flow and suction without any leaking.

 

[marcusprit]

And I am grateful for passing on your experience and have a lot of respect for you

 

[sebo_fan]

Thank you - and you - but I was also like a lot of people who was literally sucked in by the promises and claims. There's a lot to be said for factual testing in general.

The other main problem is that no matter what brands tell you, in a controlled laboratory where test data may be recorded, it is entirely different to an actual home.

 

[turbo500]

it is entirely different to an actual home

An EXCELLENT point.

In my experience, no one house is the same in terms of cleaning requirements. With so many different bare floor types, different carpets, differnt styles of furniture and materials used. This doesn't even factor in different personal cirumstances - kids, pets, elderly relatives, how much time spent in the house, proximity to main roads and traffic, proximity to factories/farm land/woodland, where the house was built in relation to water tables, wind direction and speed etc, even the country in question and the local weather impacts on the build up of dirt and dust in a house.

No one house is the same to clean. Hence, what works for some people, doesn't for others. It's all about finding the balance of what works the best for you.

I mean, X vacuum might get an A rating for emmisions in a lab enviroment for picking up Y grams of dust and only blowing out Z particles, but in a home enviroment, the same cleaner might blow out absolutely heaps of dust because that particular home has filthy carpets to begin with.

 

[marcusprit]

Oh I agree. But at least it can give consumers a rough guide which is better than none at all, providing a standard independant testing procedure comes along hopefully in the near future.

 

[spiraclean]

Manufacturers that use phrases such as "HEPA type" or "HEPA media" are only stating what material the filter is made of. Whether or not it actually filters to that standard is an entirely different matter altogether, and depends largely on how the filter is constructed. Many customers aren't clued up enough to know the difference and manufacturers are well aware of that.

A true HEPA filter will have been tested and verified to meet the correct standard. In such instances the manufacturer has nothing to hide, and will usually be happy to state the filter efficiency as a percentage, either on the cleaner itself or in their marketing bumf. At the very least they will divulge this information with a quick phone call.

It's also worth checking with the manufacturer to see how they test for filtration efficiency. Do they test the filter by itself, or the cleaner as a whole? Even the best HEPA filter is worthless if dust particles leak out from all around it when the cleaner is running.

For the most part it's all academic anyway, as the average healthy person does not require such an exacting standard of filtration. Those that do will have already been to their GP, referred for testing and actually diagnosed with a dust allergy. Using a vacuum with absolute filtration will count for nothing the minute they step outside the house to go about their daily lives, though.

 

[marcusprit]

The Miele vacuum has been independently certified and verified to reach HEPA standard.

And an allergy specialist will tell you if you can have a room such a bedroom that has a hard floor , bedding encased with anti dust mite covers you can reduce your symptoms significantly as you will get a break from the allergens that are causing the symptoms.So a HEPA certified vacuum that doesn't :increase allergens into the air you breath plus an air purifier and encasing your mattress pillows and duvet will help greatly as I have found from personal experience. I no longer need any medication. And there are millions of people who suffer from allergies and sadly it is increasing.

 

[sebo_fan]

Of course you can diminish the symptoms "greatly," but having a HEPA filter in a vacuum cleaner won't eliminate dust in the air.

 

[marcusprit]

It might not illiminate dust in the air but a vacuum cleaner with poor filtration will certainly increase the allergen particles in the air increasing your symtoms.

And the more dust you pick up which is about 90% skin cells btw the more of this dust you pick up and keep inside the vacuum the less likely it is to affect you.

But as i say a Miele Vacuum along with a good air purifier and the other measures i have taken have alieviated my symtoms and i'm happy to say i have helped others using the same measures

 

[oliveoiltinfoil]

2 and a half months on and I am still very much enjoying my Felix Vogue eco. I really do appreciate its design and the way it looks. The white/cream is really rather attractive. Had various people coming round and having the cleaner out in the kitchen for example and people saying either "wow that is posh" or "what the hell is that" to which I reply "probably the best vacuum cleaner for this price.

I use this in conjunction with my Bosch athlete which incidental got replaced about 4 weeks into me having it (around 4 months ago now) due to a naff battery that was lasting little more than 6 minutes on full power, even bosch admitted that. The replacement one has been great since.

I have just popped in in my 3rd bag, which is the newly designed bags for the felix which look similar to Mieles bags. Having already used one, they maintain suction better, they don't leak at all (the previous one sometimes would) and they don't smell anywhere near as much as they used to. I don't know if sebo are using a different type of material, but it works.

You really do notice the difference in heat generation between this and the previous model. The eco model creates very little heat now, and it a fair bit quieter, making more of a whistling sound. Sounds quite nice really. Does anyone have any idea who make these motors? I have a feeling it is Bosch, but I may be wrong.

So yeah, this is my go to vacuum. Just does the job well. I do need to get a dusting brush for it though, but the one you get from sebo for this cleaner isn't the best, the bristle are a little too harsh and too long, they get sucked into the hose rendering it useless more or less. Does anyone know of any decent aftermarket one for these cleaners?

 

[sebo_fan]

The bristles are fine with both sizes that SEBO sell - either the smaller dusting brush originally equipped with the K series, but also C series OR the larger dust brush which I recommend - on the basis that both of mine have lasted a few years, haven't damaged anything and don't put scrapes on anything, I'd say they are built to last. The larger one is better though in my opinion as the lower suction doesn't allow the bristles to compact up in the dust channel hole.

Either dust brush would require either a clip to the Felix handle spine (but then you'd lose out on height adjustment of the handle) or swap around the main tool you don't use much of.

The more modern D dusting brush can also be used, but it doesn't come with a clamp - has similar bristles to Miele's round dusting brush.

 

[madaboutsebo]

Thanks for posting an update on your SEBO Eco Felix Vogue. Glad to here you are enjoying using it. It's good to know the new improved synthetic bags are better than the first generation will have to get some once I've used this current box!

I've only tried the new Eco Felix which happened to be the Vogue model in John Lewis and I was impressed with the performance for only a 700 watt motor. I agree it sounded quieter and I noticed less heat generated from it too. I thought or it felt to me as if it had more suction to the previous higher watt models.

Hope you continue to enjoy your new SEBO.

 

[sebo_fan]

Given that the law stipulates a move to 900 watts later on in just a few years time, it is also good to see SEBO releasing this 700 watt Felix now rather than two-tier move that other companies are doing with 1200 watts and 700 watt options. Lets not forget the 175 watt ET-1 power nozzle, but I am surprised SEBO haven't lowered the ET-1 alone motor watts in respect of the EU law. I know they don't have to, but it would be interesting to see a lower motor, I think.

 

[oliveoiltinfoil]

175 watt does seem a lot for a brush bar motor, but those powerheads really do pack a punch. They don't slow down even on plush pile carpeting, and as you know, they pull the vacuum forward quite noticeably. What I think would be quite interesting, although it probably wont happen, is if SEBO use Numatic new 580 watt motor, which Numatic say has 10% more suction power that even the previous 1200 watt model. That in a Felix or sebo upright would be very interesting. Its not exactly as if they previous Henry motor was lacking in power as well. I know that SEBO and Numatic are tied up in some way, with Numatic branded vacuums made by Sebo being sold in Germany, think they are the G series Sebos.

 

[sebo_fan]

Im sure I read somewhere that SEBO have a healthy relationship contract with Bosch who supplies the motors to some of their vacuums - it would reiterate the "Made in Germany" principle rather than using the GB Numatic. And lets face it, though the Germans might want to forget WW2 in a hurry, they're not exactly known for forging British and Germany relationships particularly well - look at Rover and BMW!

Shoe horning a 580w watt motor into a SEBO may not provide the instant answer. The layout is different for starters from a tub canister to an upright.

 

[oliveoiltinfoil]

This made me laugh. I am half German on my late Fathers side, due to the industry he was in and what I now do for a living, I spend a lot of time in various parts of Germany and basically, that statement is very much incorrect. We have forged more cooperations with the Germans and German companies than most of Europe, including the French. I guess BMW and Rolls Royce, and Volkswagen and Bentley don't mean much then ahah. All W12 engines in the Volkswagen and Audi range are now going to be built by Bentley in Crew, so a prestigious German car such as a flagship Audi A8 will have a British made engine, the recommended oil in Volkswagen group cars is Castrol, again Castrol being British, the list goes on and that doesn't even include military projects such as Eurofighter GmbH. Also, the pre 2011 Felix used an Amtek motor, Amtek being Italian, so it is probably less to do with where the motor or part comes from, and more to do with tis performance, however, they will probably be more inclined to use a German parts supplier not only because of patriotism, but geographically, if the Bosch motor is made in Germany, the supply link will be faster.