Researching Vacuums

[funeraldirector]

Selecting the Ideal Vacuum

Countrydirt,

While there are several units on the market at various price points, one of the prime concerns in your situation is not only cleaning performance but also uptime and ease of use. In the dozen or so years I sold vacuums for Lux in addition to my donut-eating Teamsters job driving heavy trucks for Alliant/Kraft Foodservice in Boston, I have either sold, owned or extensively tested every quality upright vacuum made. My client list included four of the top ten hospitals in the USA and the best burn hospital for kids in the world. While I like the lux upright for the ten year warranty and comfortable use, your situation is best handled with the Windsor Sensor XP12. I prefer it for your application due to kids vacuuming and the heavier cord over its Sebo-branded sister will give better longevity. All of those hospitals use exclusively Windsor or a combination of Windsor and Lux.

Excellent call by Sebo Fan for accurately assessing the client needs and picking the best option given all the important factors. The defining issue is kids vacuuming and the brush assisted movement, 1.5 lb. handle weight, best on-board tool for baseboards, and excellent performance with the electric servo motor height adjustment. Not sure if Windsor offers the cloth-style bags yet but Sebo does and they are preferable to paper.

Strictlybojack-I like several of the Riccar/Simplicity TOL tandem air vacuums but not this Cirrus-style vacuum when attachment use is paramount and also little ones are learning to vacuum. Many a carpet have been spared damage due to the automatic servo motor adjusting the height when someone went off and left the vacuum running on carpet with the brush spinning. The easier a vacuum is to use the more use it will get. The difference in cleaning performance when used regularly between top brands like Miele, Sebo/Windsor, Lux, Kirby and Riccar/Simplicity is insignificant. Also remember that a vacuum is a $1000.00 investment so that makes the Sebo and other vacuums in its class an excellent value in terms of price, performance and durability. Again the machine needs to be kid-proof and this is the most kid-proof vacuum money buys, and also meets Countrydirt's budget requirement.

Brian

 

[sitop]

Why not a canister?

Sounds like a canister would work for you. It is the easiest for attachment work, bare floors and under the beds. I had a cleaning service for years. A good Sears Kenmore canister with a powermate and all of the attachments would be excellent. For us cleaning nuts with vacuuming an upright is fine. We know how to get the upright or the attachments to work under the bed. We may also have another vacuum to clean the furniture, kitchen and bathroom floors. it seems that there is not a lot of time in your household to vacuum, especially if the kids are helping out. Sears has a large HEPA bag witch I would recommend for your household. You won't have to clean the after filters as much. I always had a Sears canister for the houses with kids and "stuff". They are not expensive. You can get a good one around $300. I am not knocking all of the vacuums that are suggested before. I have a working knowledge between the business. For the Funeral Home I have 2 Kirby's and an Electrolux. The guys at the Funeral Home can't kill a kirby even vacuuming up metal from flower stand and the spilled water. I just feel, and this is my own opinion, not knocking anyone, that a Sears canister with a powermate would be an affordable purchase for this person. If the kids do screw up the machine then they are only screwing up $300

 

[stricklybojack]

.
Not trying to be a smart Alec, but am I the only one who who reads the "customer", literally in this case, as needing a vacuum priced, "under $500"? See the OP...last line, couldn't be more clear, just sayin'.

So unless this poster wants a used vac, or some Seno/Windsor fan links to actual vacuums for sale under $500, it's seems to be a none-issue. That brand/model seems to be well above budget.
Not surprising as Windsor is a commercial brand and they consistently price well above regular home use vacs.

Now given pets and children have been mentioned it is also possible the carpet in question is not pristine high end New Zealand wool. Might be a little spotty or trafficked, I might be wrong but wouldn't be surprised.

Countrydirt, opinions vary on the Sebo/Windsor. If you use the search function in the archives you will find current and former vacuum shop owners and I me time fans, now unimpressed with the current Sebo/Windsor design and build quality. However clearly it has it's fans too. But personally I cannot fathom why someone, unless bitten by the "German engineering bug", would pay up for these machines.

 

[stricklybojack]

.
"shop owners and I me time fans," should read, "shop owners and one time Sebo fans".

 

[sitop]

Stricklybojack

Your last comment is why I suggested the Sears Canister with a powermate. I was listening to the customer, as I would do in the cleaning service to see what their needs are. I was trying to suggest a vacuum that would be easy to use and would not choke on paper clips and coins. The cost factor kicks in too.

 

[funeraldirector]

Windsor

Most janitorial supply houses I deal with will be around $450.00ish for the Sensor XP12 machine so it definitely falls below the $500.00 ceiling he has indicated.

Strictlybojack definitely a little more aggressive performance on the Tandem Riccar/Simplicity units than the SEBO and have not seen the Maytag Mo2or except on Youtube but it looks good. The last new Windsor Versamatic I had used a Lamb eastern EU motor so they are cutting costs for sure. Even Miele has scaled back the quality compared to previous units like the Silver Moon which had the huge Lamb-style motor instead of the smaller Vortex which does not stand up nearly as well.

I bought an American made Riccar Impeccable purple TOL canister recently. This might be the best cleaning nozzle I have used in a long time and high build quality but would put Countrydirt back in the $1k price bracket.

Brian

 

[eurekaprince]

If you are looking for something a little more robust in the way of a bypass "bag-first" upright, you really should explore the commercial line of Panasonic uprights. Panasonic took the old Hoover Dial-a-Matic configuration and made it better before any other manufacturer. The bare-bones Panasonic commercial uprights are well-built and have all-metal components in the brush-roll area. Their basic unit goes for under $200! See link below:



http://m.shop.panasonic.com/home-an...MC-V5210.html#start=1&cgid=commercial-vacuums

 

[sebo_fan]

Sand or stones? Or concrete, weeds and stones?



Can you do this with your upright vacuums in the U.S?

You see, what this demonstates is a clear example of SEBO's build quality and general pick up. In homes uprights usually go from hard floor to carpet and so forth, but what about from concrete to carpet?

End of the day, the Sebo PN in this video uses the same kind of components as the X/Windsor series even if the SEBO X/Windsor doesn't feature a brush roll on/off mode. That PN head is 5 years old versus the 8 year old model that is above it.

 

[sebo4me]

Unimpressed with Sebo build quality? What a load of nonsense!
Sebo have just been awarded the most reliable uprights in the UK.
There's a reason why they are so popular in the commercial world. Performance and reliability second to none!

 

[sebo4me]

The Cirrus looks like a fantastic vac for the money.

 

[sebo4me]

This is what govacuum say about the Sebo X4

http://https//youtu.be/8aBqN0dBfiA

 

[countrydirt]

I really appreciate all of your input. The cirrus looks very interesting, as does the windsor, and maytag...

What is the availability of parts for the windsor, maytag, and cirrus? How long are parts available after they stop making a model?

Has anyone worked on or taken any of these apart? How easy are these models to work on? If there is a clog how simple is it to clean out and go again?

Thank you!

 

[stricklybojack]

.
The Cirrus, Riccar, Simplicity, Fuller Brush, Powr-Flite, Carpet Pro, are all the same basic machine design, all made, assembled, or imported by the Tacony corporation. There are two basic sizes, and scads of different features, above floor cleaning being the most notable. So most parts are plentiful and interchangeable and these rank as some of the easiest to work on bypass machines.
This design was copied from Panasonic who copied it from Hoover...still with me?
Tacony has made significant improvements from it's predecessors, that said the Hoover Dial-A-Matic will always be a collector favorite.
Also, and this is big, the bags and parts are available more cheaply and readily than Sebo/Windsor.
Can you even get Hepa bags for a Windsor, and if so what does that cost?

If your have the same height of carpet, why get a self adjusting vacuum? If you don't, and have carpet that varies significantly in height than go for this Rubber Maid and save big bucks. Or get the non-auto height adjusting model and save even more.
Rubber Maid has been labeling and selling commercial vacs for years now, and if you have lower pile carpet, not shag, commercial vacs can make a lot of sense.
This outlet has great prices on commercial vacs, most restaurants have one, so it's no wonder.
I encourage the Windsor fans to link to actual vacs and bags for sale and let's see what things run.
These are 12" vacs I think they are also available in 15" models.
Lastly, if you want a solid European designed commercial vacuum i would definitely consider the Nilfisk Advance machines or Lindhaus as well as Widsor/Sebo.



http://www.webstaurantstore.com/rub...c-power-height-upright-vacuum/6901868438.html

 

[sebo4me]

One thing I don't like about the Cirrus and similar Riccar models is the floating head. It's not ideal. I'd prefer manuel height adjustment.

 

[stricklybojack]

.
Okay, i am on a proper desktop computer and off my ipad so now i can better reply.

First off, Maytag labeled machines ARE Tacony made bypass vacuums. Riccar/Simplicity are Tacony's two mirror image nameplates that sell in local vacuum shops and offer "higher end" options...all the way up to two motor, Tandem Air" designs. Those are a non-bypass first motor then a bypass second motor. Over budget and the non-bypass first motor is not what you specified as needing.
Maytag is a new line, i don't know how they are being marketed. At some point Dysonman1 will notice this thread and clue us in, as i believe he works for Tacony at their vacuum museum.
As Vintagerepairer said, the Tacony vacs are substantial but light to push...good point.
I posted the WindTunnel because that is the grandson of Hoover's Dial-A-Matic from the 1960's which put bypass vacuums on the map, as far as i know. AND it is a great performer, just stupid loud. Also now the machine has a chintzier build feeling compared to earlier/original versions of the machine.

The Sebo Windsor and other Euro makes do one thing very well, they lay flat for getting under things like higher beds and the like. Orecks do too, but lets no go there, the natives are getting restless (some don't see the charm i do in the Oreck)and they are most often non-bypass design machines.

I mentioned the SeboFlix / Windsor Axcess because i knew it was only a matter of time before some else did. Really not what you seem to need. Vacuuming outside proves what exactly? Don't answer that, because i think it was Gsheen (a vacuum shop owner from South Africa) who mentioned here on VL he thought the quality had dropped some on the Sebo. Also KirbyloverDan i recall agreeing with him on that point. Are they still posting here? I've been away for awhile. I can't say because i don't have experience with the older Sebo/Windsor models being discussed.

Generally, Windsor sells the same vac here for more than Sebo sells the same vac across the pond...but less than Sebo sells vacs for here, got that? Nuts how involved this can be, but great if you need a hobby like apparently lots of us here do.

Canister? If you want one of those countrydirt let us know.

On Berber, a floating head (witch is self-adjusting for height by design- no mechanism to break- is fine...deep shag not so much, AFAIK. Those more expert will hopefully help inform the situation and tell us.

Being that today's vacs have one or more filters price those too. I think you will find that Windsor is more costly in that department too.

 

[sebo4me]

Maybe in the US but in the UK Sebo Ultra bags are £1 each. The Sebo box which includes 8 bags and the filters costs £20. You only need to change the filter after every 16 bags so it is very cheap to run. You can pick up a Sebo X4 or Felix for just over £200 here,so they are fantastic value. I've not seen any drop in build quality, they are very solid vacs.

 

[sebo_fan]

A SIMILAR APPROACH WITH SEBO.

THE WINDSOR SENSOR and SEBO X are the same vacuum, so parts and spares in the U.S are usually plentiful. This can’t be said for later models since SEBO only came to the U.S only a few years ago to sell their own domestic, more cosmetic ranges.

The brand that Stricklybojack has identified as being the ORIGINAL BRAND behind it all, Hoover U.S who are now behind TTI also COPIED SEBO and brought out their own SEBO copy made in China known as the PROFILE and INSIGHT; both models suffer from poorer plastics and feedback online has been limited to say the least from actual owners in terms of positivity.

The WINDSOR SENSOR and SEBO X were designed to be maintained and repaired by the owner - all parts are accessible and other SEBO parts also share a commonality.

Because it is German there are particular points about the SEBO X design that other brands have tried to copy but at the end of the day the machines go on for years - Mine is 18 years old for example and I use mine regularly.

Whilst NILFISK and LINDHAUS are perfectly good brands, they’re not as simple to fix as the SEBO X design; parts are limited and the machines can be a bit too bulky to use. They have some good well thought out features but with a removable cable and features fit for COMMERCIAL markets, the Windsor Sensor is based on a domestic model that SEBO purposefully designed for way back in 1995 so it has a fixed cord for starters, or at least a locked in cord that goes in part with the machine.

The reason SEBO prices in the U.S are different is because the models are slightly more powerful and have a more modern appearance. Anyone with a degree of intelligence can work that out by looking at the design of the Windsor versus the smoother X4 series.

THE GREAT HEPA DEBATE continues to go on as time itself: As usual some are of the opinion that HEPA is the best and they latch onto it as if it is a far superior system. In reality, S-CLASS filters are cleaner and longer lasting: Miele used S-Class before they brought out HEPA filters.

Both Miele and SEBO offer filters that have to be bought to replace; it purges the vacuum cleaner both with the removal of the dust bag.

End of the day the X series is an excellently designed vacuum for the home owner. It has a few downsides, but there is NEVER A PERFECT VACUUM CLEANER: Brush rolls are always going to have to be cleaned to free them of hair, even if some companies have brought out fancy blades to rip the hair off.

As for Kirbyloverdan - oh yes, the famous member on here who has thousands of vacuums and whilst he is a great collector, he also has his own opinion on the SEBO/WINDSOR brand.

But I also have an opinion and there are PLENTY of other members on here in support of the SEBO/WINDSOR brand BOTH from the U.S and other countries - who also have an opinion.

End of the day, whatever NONSENSE Strictlybojack tries in order to present TACONY as being the WONDERMENT OF AMERICAN PRODUCTION, the reality is that SOME of their vacuums are actually made in China.

And clearly if you don't realise that taking out a domestic vacuum with a brush roll and using it on concrete that can rip out weeds provides insight into how WELL an upright vacuum stands up to that kind of abuse clearly dictates that there is something missing in your arsenal of actual QUALITY and DURABILITY knowledge.

 

[sebo4me]

Well put Nar I applaud you!

 

[sebo_fan]

THIS IS NOT HOW I INTENDED TO START MY NEW YEAR.

but Thank you Sebo4Me. I am not a dealer for SEBO, I am not a salesperson for SEBO and they I have never worked for them.

I came from being a vintage Hoover upright collector to the German brand through my late parents; I still love Hoover classic uprights to this day; its like your first car; you never forget your first driver.

However Im fed up of this utter BS between high end opinion where actual ownership is clearly not all that identifiable versus members with high opinions who latch onto others.

Strictlybojack owns a SEBO commercial 2 motor driven upright. The Windsor Sensor is NOT. Its like comparing apples and oranges.

 

[eurekaprince]

Hi Robert!

Just to clarify for the sake of accuracy...you wrote that:

"This design was copied from Panasonic who copied it from Hoover..."

I may be wrong, but didn't Panasonic legally buy the Dial-a-Matic patent/design from Hoover in the 1970's? That's what I always thought.

Some really interesting vacuum history with the evolution of the most common upright design now on the market (this bypass DAM design).

Eurekaprince Brian

By the way, as much as I loved cleaning carpet with our Hoover Self-Propelled Ultra WindTunnel (same as the Anniversary SP WindTunnel), cleaning above the floor with the rather short, springy hose was rather uncomfortable - made even harder by the lack of a suction relief valve.