New EU Regs
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gsheen
Well-known member
It would be manufactured, They can't change machines already made, and there is always old sock too.
Are they actually been implemented ? I sort of wonder how this will affect country's like mine who feed off production lines from EU and machines designed for EU that don't have this legislation.
South Africans are seriously power hungry if its not 2000watts it doesn't sell. I wonder how this will effect our market it will be interesting to see.
Are they actually been implemented ? I sort of wonder how this will affect country's like mine who feed off production lines from EU and machines designed for EU that don't have this legislation.
South Africans are seriously power hungry if its not 2000watts it doesn't sell. I wonder how this will effect our market it will be interesting to see.
turbo500
Well-known member
Are they actually been implemented ?
Yup.
All cleaners manufactured after 01st September 2014 will be limited to 1600w and all vacuums manufactured after 01st September 2017 will be limited to 900w.
Numatic are, as far as I am aware, the first manufacturer to make a machine to fit in with the new legistlation, which is rated at 650w, but with a twin fan motor so it actually has 10% increased suction over the current 1200w model. [this post was last edited: 2/18/2014-04:59]
Yup.
All cleaners manufactured after 01st September 2014 will be limited to 1600w and all vacuums manufactured after 01st September 2017 will be limited to 900w.
Numatic are, as far as I am aware, the first manufacturer to make a machine to fit in with the new legistlation, which is rated at 650w, but with a twin fan motor so it actually has 10% increased suction over the current 1200w model. [this post was last edited: 2/18/2014-04:59]
gsheen
Well-known member
dysons dc51 is only a 700 watt machine but wow it sucks really well.
It can be done and I think in creating the law they have forced manufacturers to invest in R&D and come up with better idea's for cleaning.
It can only be a good thing.
It can be done and I think in creating the law they have forced manufacturers to invest in R&D and come up with better idea's for cleaning.
It can only be a good thing.
watsonw
Well-known member
'to be fitted with twin fan motor'
......I thought that the likes of numatics had always been fitted with two fans; if they had then the motor wattages would never had to be 1000 plus!!!!!!!!
......I thought that the likes of numatics had always been fitted with two fans; if they had then the motor wattages would never had to be 1000 plus!!!!!!!!
turbo500
Well-known member
It can only be a good thing
Completely agree with you, Gareth.
These cheaply made, high wattage cleaners are a cheap cop-out for not having to done any R&D and being able to cut back on costs by using cheaper motors. The Hoover Purepower is a perfect example - it started as a fairly decent 1200w upright and is now a cheap heap of flimsey plastic with a 2100w screaming motor in it.
Remember the days when all we needed was 300w and a decent brushroll? All those Hoover Junior and Lux 500 owners never complained about filthy carpets.
Completely agree with you, Gareth.
These cheaply made, high wattage cleaners are a cheap cop-out for not having to done any R&D and being able to cut back on costs by using cheaper motors. The Hoover Purepower is a perfect example - it started as a fairly decent 1200w upright and is now a cheap heap of flimsey plastic with a 2100w screaming motor in it.
Remember the days when all we needed was 300w and a decent brushroll? All those Hoover Junior and Lux 500 owners never complained about filthy carpets.
jade_angel
Well-known member
Power really seems to hit diminishing returns - for example, do the 2100W EU-model vacuums clean any better than their 1200W American and Canadian equivalents?
But, good design is everything. It's the reason a Kirby Legend II is still an awesome cleaner despite its 5A motor, and why a cheap 1200W Bissel Powerforce can't beat it despite a 2x power advantage.
But, good design is everything. It's the reason a Kirby Legend II is still an awesome cleaner despite its 5A motor, and why a cheap 1200W Bissel Powerforce can't beat it despite a 2x power advantage.
ultraperformer
Well-known member
I'm looking forward to these new regulations, when you think how low wattage vacuums used to be. Increasing the motor wattage IMO was just a lazy way of increasing performance, exploiting new technology instead of energy usage should have been happening long ago.
gsheen
Well-known member
One thing to realize is that manufacturers are going to build in obsolescence into these motors They wont be the same as motors of old. 2000 watt motor will spin at about 30 000 rpm were as a 500 watt motor about 10 000 or there abouts, The lower the wattage the slower the motor the longer they last. That's a issue for the manufacturers.
alexhoovers94
Well-known member
Chris...The 1200 watt motors Henry uses now is a twin fan, Numatic have always used twin fan motors.
They did have a faze from 1997-2003 of using really cheap single fan motors, well the 97-99 Henry did not sound as bad despite being single stage but from 99-03 they had very high pitch motors.
They did have a faze from 1997-2003 of using really cheap single fan motors, well the 97-99 Henry did not sound as bad despite being single stage but from 99-03 they had very high pitch motors.
sebo_fan
Well-known member
The other thing to remember and has been pointed out before is that the voltage is different in the U.S, so whilst Miele in the UK and Europe list the S8 as having 2200 watts, the equivalent Miele's in the U.S are listed as 1200.
Though interestingly the SEBO X4 from SEBO's U.S website is listed as 1300, same as the UK ones..
Though interestingly the SEBO X4 from SEBO's U.S website is listed as 1300, same as the UK ones..
sptyks
Well-known member
Watts...
A watt is a watt is a watt, no matter the voltage.
1200 watts in the U.S is the same as 1200 watts in the U.K. Only the voltage is different!
The Miele S8 in Europe and the U.K. has a more powerful 2200w motor than the S8 in the U.S.
Vacuum cleaners in the U.S. are restricted to 1200 watts max. and have been so for a few years now. That is why Miele is restricted to 1200 watts for the U.S. version of the S8.
A watt is a watt is a watt, no matter the voltage.
1200 watts in the U.S is the same as 1200 watts in the U.K. Only the voltage is different!
The Miele S8 in Europe and the U.K. has a more powerful 2200w motor than the S8 in the U.S.
Vacuum cleaners in the U.S. are restricted to 1200 watts max. and have been so for a few years now. That is why Miele is restricted to 1200 watts for the U.S. version of the S8.
sebo_fan
Well-known member
1200 is restricted in the U.S? Really?
Ah, thank you for the explanation.
However I wonder then how SEBO manage to get around the fact that the X4 in the U.S has 1300 watts?
The Felix 1 and 2 in the U.S is also rated at 1300 watts and 200 or 175 watts for the PN alone. Add that together and you have 1475 watts or 1500 watts.
Even the G2 "manual" SEBO upright has 1300 watts.
The SEBO K series, K2 Kombi & D4 appears to have 1250 watts. But then there's also the 175 or 200 watt PN's to add on, if applicable.
How can that be the case then if vacuums are restricted to 1200 watts? Clearly those SEBO models have more than 1200 at the motor discounting the PN's??
Ah, thank you for the explanation.
However I wonder then how SEBO manage to get around the fact that the X4 in the U.S has 1300 watts?
The Felix 1 and 2 in the U.S is also rated at 1300 watts and 200 or 175 watts for the PN alone. Add that together and you have 1475 watts or 1500 watts.
Even the G2 "manual" SEBO upright has 1300 watts.
The SEBO K series, K2 Kombi & D4 appears to have 1250 watts. But then there's also the 175 or 200 watt PN's to add on, if applicable.
How can that be the case then if vacuums are restricted to 1200 watts? Clearly those SEBO models have more than 1200 at the motor discounting the PN's??
sptyks
Well-known member
Sorry! My mistake.
The U.S. restriction on vacuum power is 12 Amps not 1200 watts.
12 amps = 1440 watts. Sorry. I am so used to seeing power stated in watts on this forum where here in the US everything is listed in amps.
So the US restriction on vacuum cleaners is 1440 watts.
The U.S. restriction on vacuum power is 12 Amps not 1200 watts.
12 amps = 1440 watts. Sorry. I am so used to seeing power stated in watts on this forum where here in the US everything is listed in amps.
So the US restriction on vacuum cleaners is 1440 watts.
vintagerepairer
Well-known member
Gary
You said "One thing to realize is that manufacturers are going to build in obsolescence into these motors They wont be the same as motors of old. 2000 watt motor will spin at about 30 000 rpm were as a 500 watt motor about 10 000 or there abouts, The lower the wattage the slower the motor the longer they last. That's a issue for the manufacturers."
In the theory, I would back you all the way with this. In the practice, and speaking only of cleaners I have known about here in the UK, motor failure is not one of the main reasons why people here are disposing of cleaners at the moment. Now I admit quite readily that I have no figures to hand, but it seems that aside from Dyson, most other vacuums purchased are from the much cheaper end of the market, and it only takes a drop in suction, a broken part or hose, even a belt, and people here are throwing out their cleaners.
As you quite rightly say, the newer motors are liable to last longer, but for me I think that today's cleaners already contain enough 'built-in obsolescence' to more than compensate for the length of time the motor will last for. The quality of our cleaners is dreadful - at any price.
You said "One thing to realize is that manufacturers are going to build in obsolescence into these motors They wont be the same as motors of old. 2000 watt motor will spin at about 30 000 rpm were as a 500 watt motor about 10 000 or there abouts, The lower the wattage the slower the motor the longer they last. That's a issue for the manufacturers."
In the theory, I would back you all the way with this. In the practice, and speaking only of cleaners I have known about here in the UK, motor failure is not one of the main reasons why people here are disposing of cleaners at the moment. Now I admit quite readily that I have no figures to hand, but it seems that aside from Dyson, most other vacuums purchased are from the much cheaper end of the market, and it only takes a drop in suction, a broken part or hose, even a belt, and people here are throwing out their cleaners.
As you quite rightly say, the newer motors are liable to last longer, but for me I think that today's cleaners already contain enough 'built-in obsolescence' to more than compensate for the length of time the motor will last for. The quality of our cleaners is dreadful - at any price.
sebo_fan
Well-known member
Well said Benny.
I have to admit that my next door neighbour's son is the local repairer for all appliances in our area including vacuums. Burnt out motors are a rare occurrence.
Even when you see other threads on here of "sidewalk rescues," where collectors are finding vacuums that have been turfed, photos on here reveal major clogs that owners can't be bothered to clean out.
You even get some unusual and fairly expensive vacuums that have been chucked out - cue the SEBO/Windsor upright that one of the members found recently on a kerbside.
I have to admit that my next door neighbour's son is the local repairer for all appliances in our area including vacuums. Burnt out motors are a rare occurrence.
Even when you see other threads on here of "sidewalk rescues," where collectors are finding vacuums that have been turfed, photos on here reveal major clogs that owners can't be bothered to clean out.
You even get some unusual and fairly expensive vacuums that have been chucked out - cue the SEBO/Windsor upright that one of the members found recently on a kerbside.
The powwer limits on US vacuums is due to the power limits on the 120V 15A circuits that are most common in the US.NEC codes specify "continuious" loads should not exceed 80 percent of the circuit current rating-so 12A fits that requirement.If 20A circuits were more common in US homes-wish they were-then higher power vacs would be more common.20A circuits are usually in kitchens in US homes-becuase of the portable heating appliances used there.20A outlets have one pin that is "T" shaped so 15A plugs or 20A plugs can be used in it.20A hot pins are horizontal-they will fit only in 20A outlets.NEMA specs-National Association of Electrical Manufactures.
gsheen
Well-known member
Burnt out motors are the most common problem we find in my workshop, on the cheaper vacs like the Electrolux pet lover the motor just burns out as it cannot get enough air to cool it through the clogged filter, Mieles too burn out allot. mainly due to burst bags that clogg the filter and the new synthetic bags that leak dust. I would say we recycle at least 1000 motors a month possibly more
vintagerepairer
Well-known member
Gosh
That is a surprise Gary. I went to a local vac shop recently. The man knows me now. He said his repairs consist mainly of cable failures and blockages or losses of suction. He said motor failures are a rare reason for people to bring cleaners to him, though of course as we both agreed, with cleaners costing so little in the UK, it wouldn't even be worth the travel expenses of taking a known burnt-out cleaner to his shop for inspection.
Having said that, he seems to think that, like me, people are disposing of cleaners long before motor faliure takes place, given the condition of the cleaners he sees road-side and given the comments from people who've been into his shop.
That is a surprise Gary. I went to a local vac shop recently. The man knows me now. He said his repairs consist mainly of cable failures and blockages or losses of suction. He said motor failures are a rare reason for people to bring cleaners to him, though of course as we both agreed, with cleaners costing so little in the UK, it wouldn't even be worth the travel expenses of taking a known burnt-out cleaner to his shop for inspection.
Having said that, he seems to think that, like me, people are disposing of cleaners long before motor faliure takes place, given the condition of the cleaners he sees road-side and given the comments from people who've been into his shop.
