My DC41 MK2. I must be mad!
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super-sweeper
Well-known member
Let's not start another war, I've told you this before an I'll say it again. The Vectron (the 1980s Thunder equivalent) was designed in 1983. Again, before a Dyson anything was on the market. This is a thread about a member's new Dyson, not about who came first! I'm not even sure if the Cyclon had a the removable handle, I'll look into that!
oliveoiltinfoil
Well-known member
Yeah and look what happened to Fantom 
I am sorry but there is a lot of hate regarding Dyson and I am starting to struggle to see why. At any given opportunity, a lot of members will slag dyson off when its not needed. I have held previous misconceptions about dysons, but speaking with an open mind, most of them are going. They seem a very reputable company. A lot of people can not say that about Kirby, and their sales tactics, although that isn't to do with the company itself obviously.
Their build quality is actually very good upon closer inspection. Torque screws are used which in my experience are better than standard Philips ones as they don't slips. Rubber sleeves around the hoses, thick rubber seals around the bins, lids and pipes and thick cables, it feels a quality product. The handle is very flexible, as is most of the body on the dyson, but I can only imagine that is done deliberately, so it is forgiving in the event of a drop. If it was solid, something is more likely to brake. Look at why cars crumple up in crashes.
Some videos and picture I have taken which helps prove my point. The cable one you could call negligible, but there is a difference, noticeable especially when you feel them. The bottom one is the dyson, the top is the Sebo Felix.
http://https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=fCWkLjF2gBM
I am sorry but there is a lot of hate regarding Dyson and I am starting to struggle to see why. At any given opportunity, a lot of members will slag dyson off when its not needed. I have held previous misconceptions about dysons, but speaking with an open mind, most of them are going. They seem a very reputable company. A lot of people can not say that about Kirby, and their sales tactics, although that isn't to do with the company itself obviously.
Their build quality is actually very good upon closer inspection. Torque screws are used which in my experience are better than standard Philips ones as they don't slips. Rubber sleeves around the hoses, thick rubber seals around the bins, lids and pipes and thick cables, it feels a quality product. The handle is very flexible, as is most of the body on the dyson, but I can only imagine that is done deliberately, so it is forgiving in the event of a drop. If it was solid, something is more likely to brake. Look at why cars crumple up in crashes.
Some videos and picture I have taken which helps prove my point. The cable one you could call negligible, but there is a difference, noticeable especially when you feel them. The bottom one is the dyson, the top is the Sebo Felix.
http://https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=fCWkLjF2gBM
super-sweeper
Well-known member
I didn't mean to 'slag off Dyson',I was just informing you that the lovely little quick-release was a Fantom design, it's like me saying Rainbow had the clear bin before Dyson or Fantom, or if I said that Airway had the disposable bag before Hoover.
Hey, Fantom would still be here if Dyson didn't throw a fit when Fantom didn't want to use his MEMA filters!
Torgue is DEFINITELY better than Phillips! But it doesn't matter what screws they use, the last thing you want to do is take that Dyson apart! They're a nightmare to resemble! I could resemble a Convertible blindfolded, I'd need an engineering degree to walk within 5 feet of that Dyson!
Bending isn't always great, it makes the vacuum simply feel cheap. A solid grip and wand makes the vacuum feel more robust and of a higher quality, or at-least in my opinion.
Hey, Fantom would still be here if Dyson didn't throw a fit when Fantom didn't want to use his MEMA filters!
Torgue is DEFINITELY better than Phillips! But it doesn't matter what screws they use, the last thing you want to do is take that Dyson apart! They're a nightmare to resemble! I could resemble a Convertible blindfolded, I'd need an engineering degree to walk within 5 feet of that Dyson!
Bending isn't always great, it makes the vacuum simply feel cheap. A solid grip and wand makes the vacuum feel more robust and of a higher quality, or at-least in my opinion.
Super sweeper
you're the one that brought it up and the cyclone was out before the vectron and the cyclone does have a removable handle The cyclones is like a prototype version of the Dyson DC01 and oliveoiltinfoil so glad you're here and someone else appreciates Dyson i don't like how people can comment on the reliability even know that actually never had one of have only have the old models and I forgot to say dyson is using the old Panasonic motor design what they used to have in some of the old DC 05 .the motors literally last forever it's great that doing this as I never really liked the YDK motors I had a good lifespan but they wasn't the best
you're the one that brought it up and the cyclone was out before the vectron and the cyclone does have a removable handle The cyclones is like a prototype version of the Dyson DC01 and oliveoiltinfoil so glad you're here and someone else appreciates Dyson i don't like how people can comment on the reliability even know that actually never had one of have only have the old models and I forgot to say dyson is using the old Panasonic motor design what they used to have in some of the old DC 05 .the motors literally last forever it's great that doing this as I never really liked the YDK motors I had a good lifespan but they wasn't the best
oliveoiltinfoil
Well-known member
There is a difference between perception and reality. The dyson doesn't feel terribly flimsy in the hand. Parts of the sebo feel cheap and tacky. The hose and cable and especially the variable power control. All in all though, the sebo is a very well built vacuum.
I disagree. Look at what I can in the ball, the dyson is no more complicated than it should be. It benefits no one if the product is needlessly complex to build as you can imagine.
I disagree. Look at what I can in the ball, the dyson is no more complicated than it should be. It benefits no one if the product is needlessly complex to build as you can imagine.
super-sweeper
Well-known member
I've had the DC25 before, don't tell me I haven't had any of the newer models. I got it in when somebody's husband disassembled it and couldn't resemble it, it was a pain to get it back together! I guess I'm used to solid vacuums that handle like barges, to each their own!
ALL I said was the quick-release handle was a Fantom design, you're the one who went off into things I never talked about, like who had the cyclone first. James did not invent cyclonic technology, but rather built it into a vacuum. It wasn't a bad idea! At what point in this thread did I say the Dyson was unreliable?
Olive guy-I hope the Dyson wouldn't be flimsy at the price you paid for them!
Parts of a quality vacuum can always fell cheap, sometimes they can cripple the vacuum's existence.look at Bison, it was a solid-metal tank! But it was all ruined by the cheap, plastic belt drive! Even the mighty Kirby can fall victim to cheap parts, namely when you break the Finger of the Magic-Finger belt lifter! I have to be careful at times, it never bends thankfully, but at times it feels as if it could snap under the pressure of a fresh rubber belt!
ALL I said was the quick-release handle was a Fantom design, you're the one who went off into things I never talked about, like who had the cyclone first. James did not invent cyclonic technology, but rather built it into a vacuum. It wasn't a bad idea! At what point in this thread did I say the Dyson was unreliable?
Olive guy-I hope the Dyson wouldn't be flimsy at the price you paid for them!
Parts of a quality vacuum can always fell cheap, sometimes they can cripple the vacuum's existence.look at Bison, it was a solid-metal tank! But it was all ruined by the cheap, plastic belt drive! Even the mighty Kirby can fall victim to cheap parts, namely when you break the Finger of the Magic-Finger belt lifter! I have to be careful at times, it never bends thankfully, but at times it feels as if it could snap under the pressure of a fresh rubber belt!
super-sweeper
Well-known member
Oh, you mean the CYCLON! Even I know the Cyclon 1000 has no E!
Thanks for clearing up the handle issue, but from what I know, the Cyclon was out in 1986, a full 3 years after Vectron. Now,I will gladly stand corrected if I, you or anyone here can provide proper dates!
Thanks for clearing up the handle issue, but from what I know, the Cyclon was out in 1986, a full 3 years after Vectron. Now,I will gladly stand corrected if I, you or anyone here can provide proper dates!
oliveoiltinfoil
Well-known member
I actually wanted to ask someone about that - the motors. Are most of the Dyson motors made by Panasonic? I know Dyson went through a phase of using Samsung ones, but I don't think that lasted long. The only in-house made motors by dyson are the digital ones, which I can see being used in corded applications, if they haven't already, but I understand they must be very expensive to make.
The motor in this remember is 700 watt, so would it still be made by Panasonic ?
The motor in this remember is 700 watt, so would it still be made by Panasonic ?
They still use Panasonic in most machines but some of them used to be YDK now all new Eco models use Panasonic I can see the motor in my DC 41mk2 you just take a plate off and I can see it's a it is a Panasonic motor i'm sure from now oh no Dysons will have Panasonic motors as it can generate more suctioned with less wattage are more reliable much bigger lifespan you know what Dyson is like they probably I probably tested lots of low wattage motors to see which one can generate the most suction for their eco-models
super-sweeper
Well-known member
Could you take a picture of the receipt? I'll look further into manufacturing dates about the Vectron!
super-sweeper
Well-known member
Thanks! It looks like the Cyclon 1000 was the first bagless cyclonic upright! Amway came after, than Vectron, Than Fantom! I stand corrected!
Cyclon 1000-1984
Amway-1984
S.C Johnson Vectron-1989
Fantom-1991
Why don't you start a thread on your Cyclon 1000, so this thread can go back onto topic for a change?
Cyclon 1000-1984
Amway-1984
S.C Johnson Vectron-1989
Fantom-1991
Why don't you start a thread on your Cyclon 1000, so this thread can go back onto topic for a change?
sptyks
Well-known member
The way I look at it...
I tend to equate Dyson vacuums to the Apple iPhone in certain ways.
Does Dyson make pretty good bagless vacuum for $650.00? The answer is YES.
Does Apple make a pretty good mobile phone for $650.00? YES.
Does Hoover (TTI) make a pretty good bagless vacuum for $150 - $200? Yes!
Does Samsung make a pretty good mobile phone for $400.00? Yes!
Here is a lesson on getting the most value for the money you spend. I would much rather spend $175 for a Hoover Windtunnel Air that performs as well or better than a Dyson according to Amazon.com reviews and will last me 10 years if cared for properly, than spending $650 for a Dyson that is expected to last the same 10 years if properly cared for. To me, the Dyson is way over priced for what you get, just like most Apple products including the iPhone 6. That is why you will see me vacuuming my home with my Hoover Windtunnel Air and sometimes with one of my Kirbys. And when I use my mobile phone, it will be on my Samsung Galaxy S5, not on an iPhone 6 which is riddled with software bugs.
I tend to equate Dyson vacuums to the Apple iPhone in certain ways.
Does Dyson make pretty good bagless vacuum for $650.00? The answer is YES.
Does Apple make a pretty good mobile phone for $650.00? YES.
Does Hoover (TTI) make a pretty good bagless vacuum for $150 - $200? Yes!
Does Samsung make a pretty good mobile phone for $400.00? Yes!
Here is a lesson on getting the most value for the money you spend. I would much rather spend $175 for a Hoover Windtunnel Air that performs as well or better than a Dyson according to Amazon.com reviews and will last me 10 years if cared for properly, than spending $650 for a Dyson that is expected to last the same 10 years if properly cared for. To me, the Dyson is way over priced for what you get, just like most Apple products including the iPhone 6. That is why you will see me vacuuming my home with my Hoover Windtunnel Air and sometimes with one of my Kirbys. And when I use my mobile phone, it will be on my Samsung Galaxy S5, not on an iPhone 6 which is riddled with software bugs.
marks_here
Well-known member
super-sweeper
Well-known member
I compare Dyson to the iPhone too, but not in that way! Everybody rushes out to buy the newest model the moment it's released, as a form to say to your neighbors, "Look what I can afford!". it's more of a status symbol than a vacuum at times!
oliveoiltinfoil
Well-known member
Yes, you can indeed compare Apple and Dyson. Look at the packaging on both products and they fonts and literature used is vey similar. When Jobs was alive, he and Dyson would send each other their newest products as they both admired each others companies. Say what you like about both companies, and I am no Apple fan, but they have attacked a certain market and people buy their products in bucket loads, despite them being much more expensive than nearly anyone else.
I really can not see a modern day Hoover, or Vax, or Shark lasting 10 years. If this is the TTI Hoover, then no way. I would have said something similar regarding my Vax and their 6 year warranty which sounds amazing on paper, but when you look into it, it is more trouble than its worth. Their customer service efficiency is lacking and what is and isn't covered isn't clear, and at best is mechanical. Dyson covers you for hoses, belt and broken accessories (pipe, bins etc) that is what the dyson guy told me. They stand behind their products that much, and their customer service seems incredible.
You are paying for those patents which make a dyson, a dyson. Dysons have the most efficient cyclonic system, probably the most effective hand tool on the market, the best swivel steering available (yes I have used Miele S7 and I have a sebo felix, the dyson is more versatile)
Most people who have Hoovers, Vax or Sharks have them for 3 or 4 years at a stretch before the things fall apart. A colleague of mine had a MR LIFT AWAY (Shark navigator lift away) and nearly exactly 1 year later, the hose to the head split, which is a £40 replacement. That is astonishing. A 3rd the cost of the entire cleaner.
So no. It isn't as black and white as "oh that costs £400, this one cost £200 and it does the same thing2. More often than not, they don't.
I really can not see a modern day Hoover, or Vax, or Shark lasting 10 years. If this is the TTI Hoover, then no way. I would have said something similar regarding my Vax and their 6 year warranty which sounds amazing on paper, but when you look into it, it is more trouble than its worth. Their customer service efficiency is lacking and what is and isn't covered isn't clear, and at best is mechanical. Dyson covers you for hoses, belt and broken accessories (pipe, bins etc) that is what the dyson guy told me. They stand behind their products that much, and their customer service seems incredible.
You are paying for those patents which make a dyson, a dyson. Dysons have the most efficient cyclonic system, probably the most effective hand tool on the market, the best swivel steering available (yes I have used Miele S7 and I have a sebo felix, the dyson is more versatile)
Most people who have Hoovers, Vax or Sharks have them for 3 or 4 years at a stretch before the things fall apart. A colleague of mine had a MR LIFT AWAY (Shark navigator lift away) and nearly exactly 1 year later, the hose to the head split, which is a £40 replacement. That is astonishing. A 3rd the cost of the entire cleaner.
So no. It isn't as black and white as "oh that costs £400, this one cost £200 and it does the same thing2. More often than not, they don't.
sebo_fan
Well-known member
Mm the thing is though, Oli - the proof is in the pudding. Until you have a Dyson of some 10 years and if Dyson honour such a long warranty or as you say excellent customer service that you have ACTUALLY experienced, then there's not much weight to just believing in what a Dyson worker tells you.
I have to smile at the comment you've made regarding a product from TTI that doesn't last for 10 years or more. Well that's impossible given that the Chinese company only took over Vax and Hoover U.S in 2007/8 - now unless you have a Tardis that moves forward in time, there is no actual evidence that a TTI product will not last five to ten years.
Meanwhile, all those Vax paper pleated filtered bagless uprights that everyone doesn't seem to like (the "Swift," the "Bubble") and even the old V-046 Quicklite seem to be still kicking about - the last one came to market in 2006 and I've seen a few still kicking around on EBay. My own model was donated to a local restaurant and they still have it - only requiring a new paper pleated cone filter every couple of years or a drive belt.
Crucially - those were pure Dirt Devil U.S vacuums and though most aren't light, they aren't that poorly made compared to Dirt Devils of older periods IMHO. Those ones are now under TTI ownership.
The problem with Dyson is the cost - they're simply far too expensive and they know it because of their suction process and the general cyclonic dramas.
I have to smile at the comment you've made regarding a product from TTI that doesn't last for 10 years or more. Well that's impossible given that the Chinese company only took over Vax and Hoover U.S in 2007/8 - now unless you have a Tardis that moves forward in time, there is no actual evidence that a TTI product will not last five to ten years.
Meanwhile, all those Vax paper pleated filtered bagless uprights that everyone doesn't seem to like (the "Swift," the "Bubble") and even the old V-046 Quicklite seem to be still kicking about - the last one came to market in 2006 and I've seen a few still kicking around on EBay. My own model was donated to a local restaurant and they still have it - only requiring a new paper pleated cone filter every couple of years or a drive belt.
Crucially - those were pure Dirt Devil U.S vacuums and though most aren't light, they aren't that poorly made compared to Dirt Devils of older periods IMHO. Those ones are now under TTI ownership.
The problem with Dyson is the cost - they're simply far too expensive and they know it because of their suction process and the general cyclonic dramas.
super-sweeper
Well-known member
If he DOES have a TARDIS, I need to borrow it! Thankfully that lovely blue phone box is bigger on the inside than out,I have a LOT of shopping to do in 1961!
sebo_fan
Well-known member
Perhaps you should stay in it, if you do get the TARDIS and travel to the destinations to buy the vacuums you've commented on that you don't own, but seem happy enough to pass judgement on.
super-sweeper
Well-known member
LOL, I form those opinions from other's experiences, silly! If Mrs.McAllister tells me that she's had nothing but terrible with her Ching-Chong brand blender, then I am inclined to think that Ching-Chong blenders aren't of quality! When the Dyson drops to a reasonable price ($600 for THAT?), I'll hop down to Sears and toss one in the buggy!
oliveoiltinfoil
Well-known member
Okay I can be sarcastic but you two really are not getting this, and thank you very much I have mainly owned Vax vacuums during the 10 years, on and off, during the time I have been living in my own house, all of which I have sold or of which have been replaced due to them not lasting. I have had the Mach 3 upright, the quicklite, performance cylinder, mach zero, air upright and now the eco air, the ones I can remember off the top of my head. The eco air is the best out of all of them and seems the best built, but a lot of the plastic seem very brittle and fragile, and so many bagless vacuums have poor seals around the dust bin. I returned my Bissell powerglide lift off and AEG precision for those reasons (and the AEG had the most awful of 3 in 1 tools. Candy Hoovers seem the best built Chinese made models, but that isn't really saying much.
Among that I have friends and family who have owned and have still got Mieles, Sebo's, Vax's and so on and it seems to be a similar story for all of them. The German vacs last forever but a few don't like the bags, the Vax's, Bissell and plastivacs last 3 years if they are lucky, then they just buy another one. My sister has a DC25 she got around 6 years ago ad she has not replaced a single item on the vacuum (she has looked after it though), and a friend in Germany got a DC41 when it came available in Germany and again, it has held up very well and he is well impressed with it, so I do have a fair few points to back up what I am saying.
It is hard for some of you to accept the fact that this DC41 MK2 is a GOOD vacuum. I am not being paid or endorsed by dyson. I have a SEBO felix which is still a very good vacuum so it doesn't make a difference which one I prefer, as I have both. I prefer the dyson. End of.
@dysonboy - I stand corrected. The DC49 cylinder uses a digital motor, V4. Dyson claims it is the smallest, quietest vacuum they have ever made. It is rated at around 190 air watts with a wattage of 1150 so not too shabby.
Among that I have friends and family who have owned and have still got Mieles, Sebo's, Vax's and so on and it seems to be a similar story for all of them. The German vacs last forever but a few don't like the bags, the Vax's, Bissell and plastivacs last 3 years if they are lucky, then they just buy another one. My sister has a DC25 she got around 6 years ago ad she has not replaced a single item on the vacuum (she has looked after it though), and a friend in Germany got a DC41 when it came available in Germany and again, it has held up very well and he is well impressed with it, so I do have a fair few points to back up what I am saying.
It is hard for some of you to accept the fact that this DC41 MK2 is a GOOD vacuum. I am not being paid or endorsed by dyson. I have a SEBO felix which is still a very good vacuum so it doesn't make a difference which one I prefer, as I have both. I prefer the dyson. End of.
@dysonboy - I stand corrected. The DC49 cylinder uses a digital motor, V4. Dyson claims it is the smallest, quietest vacuum they have ever made. It is rated at around 190 air watts with a wattage of 1150 so not too shabby.
sebo_fan
Well-known member
Oh Ive got it, Oli already but I think the evidence of parts availability speak for themselves.
As a classic Hoover fan it pains me to know that I can never get the same pattern soft bag for my Juniors or Seniors. For me and quite a few other collectors, its a time when you either never use the classics, or use them once in a while or just keep them boxed up for eternity. That's why I sold them off.
But if you look on EBay or Amazon UK you'll still find spares for filters for those Vax models - that says a lot. Surely, if the models concerned weren't around, there wouldn't be a growing market for the spares? Surely you must concede that. Same with the DC01 by Dyson and I had a few of the earlier models by Dyson. They're good and some are better built IMHO.
Im also older than you, but my experience concerning older Vax models is different to yours.
As a classic Hoover fan it pains me to know that I can never get the same pattern soft bag for my Juniors or Seniors. For me and quite a few other collectors, its a time when you either never use the classics, or use them once in a while or just keep them boxed up for eternity. That's why I sold them off.
But if you look on EBay or Amazon UK you'll still find spares for filters for those Vax models - that says a lot. Surely, if the models concerned weren't around, there wouldn't be a growing market for the spares? Surely you must concede that. Same with the DC01 by Dyson and I had a few of the earlier models by Dyson. They're good and some are better built IMHO.
Im also older than you, but my experience concerning older Vax models is different to yours.
sebo_fan
Well-known member
Also a fair few shops in the high streets in the UK are still selling old stock Vax paper filter fitted vacuums. I'd say independents only, unless a few are selling off the last of the 1200/1300/1400 watt Vax uprights.
The new EU law may mean that vacuums over 1600watts are banned, but a lot of those Swift vacs and the Quicklites had 850 watts to 1300 watts. There's still a market for them and based on the fact that their spares are usually cheaper and widely available than the NLOS filters on the market from the same brand, buyers will continue to buy the older series.
The new EU law may mean that vacuums over 1600watts are banned, but a lot of those Swift vacs and the Quicklites had 850 watts to 1300 watts. There's still a market for them and based on the fact that their spares are usually cheaper and widely available than the NLOS filters on the market from the same brand, buyers will continue to buy the older series.
Dyson their digital motors are in most of the Japanese dyson machines most all of them have it yeah they do cost a lot to make. Also like to say my friend has a three month old Dyson DC 40 used every day of a house with two dogs and five people living there it's a fully carpeted house and she is very heavy handed with vacuum cleaners this one is holding up fantastically it filter is still spotless The being used every day and being filled up twice every day cycling to deafly doing their job is the filter is even dusting I check it out every Tuesday and the only thing I've ever had to do with it is clear some hair out the brush roll. And I have the AEG precision is whilst vacuum cleaner I've ever had it broken so many pieces after a few days I friend got one and returned as it broke lots of places in the plastic was cracking.
super-sweeper
Well-known member
When did I say the DC42 MK2 was a bad vacuum? It's not the best vacuum, but it's certainly not the worst!
madaboutsebo
Well-known member
The new DC50 has just been on QVC UK! It has the new floor head that lowers or lifts the rubber seal at the front but the Dyson Representive didn't mention it! It must have been lifted up at they where picking up what looks like oats etc....the edge cleaning looked good picking up fine power from the side of the rug while vacuuming up against it on the hard floor.
oliveoiltinfoil
Well-known member
Yes, that must be the DC50 2015, they didn't call it the MK2 for some reason. Interesting vacuum. The 2015 model has 160 air watts compared to 140 of the previous one. The DC50 is said to have performed better than the original DC41 due to longer stiffer bristles and a "bar-less" sole plate. Lovey looking machine.
madaboutsebo
Well-known member
It certainly was that model. Must be the increase in motor watts, wasn't the original DC50 650 watts and the new 2015 700 watts. The only thing I thought was the nylon bristles look too thin as you look at the continuous row across the brush bar. Suppose as they are stiff that helps. That does surprise me it does better than the original DC41, some users on Dyson Facebook page complain the DC50 doesn't pick up pet hair very well!
The DC50 look better than the DC24 my Gran has.
The only things I have read about issues with the DC50 on Dyson Facebook page is it can get blockages easily on the inlet air path that runs up the centre (half of it) of the bin/cyclone assembly and inlet into the bin as the air path is narrow. Plus the bin capacity is small (well it is a small vacuum!!) and Dyson response to these users advising the DC50 is suitable for flats/apartments and small houses. In the customers defence the television advert does say it's compressed technology light weight but giving same performance as a full size Dyson. But the average customer wouldn't think small size vacuum smaller bin might not be suitable for their big house. It probably the fact they want small light weight vacuum to use. It's how people interpret things.
The DC50 look better than the DC24 my Gran has.
The only things I have read about issues with the DC50 on Dyson Facebook page is it can get blockages easily on the inlet air path that runs up the centre (half of it) of the bin/cyclone assembly and inlet into the bin as the air path is narrow. Plus the bin capacity is small (well it is a small vacuum!!) and Dyson response to these users advising the DC50 is suitable for flats/apartments and small houses. In the customers defence the television advert does say it's compressed technology light weight but giving same performance as a full size Dyson. But the average customer wouldn't think small size vacuum smaller bin might not be suitable for their big house. It probably the fact they want small light weight vacuum to use. It's how people interpret things.
