vacfan1982
Well-known member
Yes I agree there, the running costs will be quite high. It's a shame about the floorhead. I wonder if the new floorhead on the Lux international would perform better?
More airflow tests.
- Thread starter blackheart
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kirbysthebest
Well-known member
Filter(s) on GP
I have had my Guardian Platinum for four years now. Though it receives light usage, I have never had to replace the filters. The cloth bags do a very good job of filtering, of course, mileage may vary as those that use in more dusty conditions may experience more frequent changes.
I have had my Guardian Platinum for four years now. Though it receives light usage, I have never had to replace the filters. The cloth bags do a very good job of filtering, of course, mileage may vary as those that use in more dusty conditions may experience more frequent changes.
vaclab
Well-known member
Devin, thanks for the Lux GP measurements
I think it's quite a great machine but about a 32 CFM loss from the hose/wand connection down to the PN is very high indeed. Normally, I would post a pic of my Hoover Tempo Widepath (under $100) that does 80 nozzle CFM, but I already did that farther up this thread.
For what Lux charges for this machine brand new, 81 nozzle CFM is simply unacceptable to me. Mike's Vorwerk will probably end up testing near 90 CFM when his GM8901 anemometer arrives.
I've always wanted a GP and now I know what I would be willing to pay for one.
Bill
I think it's quite a great machine but about a 32 CFM loss from the hose/wand connection down to the PN is very high indeed. Normally, I would post a pic of my Hoover Tempo Widepath (under $100) that does 80 nozzle CFM, but I already did that farther up this thread.
For what Lux charges for this machine brand new, 81 nozzle CFM is simply unacceptable to me. Mike's Vorwerk will probably end up testing near 90 CFM when his GM8901 anemometer arrives.
I've always wanted a GP and now I know what I would be willing to pay for one.
Bill
blackheart
Well-known member
Thoughts
I kind of feel that perhaps we've seen the strongest flow we'll see out of a canister. I do recall seeing a Kenmore intuition pull the baird meter back to a 10 but since that was on one of the shop's baird meters that result could be skewed due to a worn spring. Anyhow i've put together a comparison chart and we can see all the measurements that i've taken for canisters so far. There were a few figures I either did not collect or could not collect which are marked with N/M (Not measured) I'm also working on a chart for uprights but I have a few more figures to collect before that's posted.
I kind of feel that perhaps we've seen the strongest flow we'll see out of a canister. I do recall seeing a Kenmore intuition pull the baird meter back to a 10 but since that was on one of the shop's baird meters that result could be skewed due to a worn spring. Anyhow i've put together a comparison chart and we can see all the measurements that i've taken for canisters so far. There were a few figures I either did not collect or could not collect which are marked with N/M (Not measured) I'm also working on a chart for uprights but I have a few more figures to collect before that's posted.
vacfan1982
Well-known member
Bill Mike's Vorwerk is an upright cleaner.
As Devin mentioned the Aerus has the highest CFM he has measured so if that is unacceptable then every canister is unacceptable in your opinion.
Personally I think 80CFM is very good for a canister cleaner and will clean carpets extremely well!
As Devin mentioned the Aerus has the highest CFM he has measured so if that is unacceptable then every canister is unacceptable in your opinion.
Personally I think 80CFM is very good for a canister cleaner and will clean carpets extremely well!
vaclab
Well-known member
Mark, I'm not blind yet
I know Mike's Vorwerk is an upright. Geez.
The point I'm attempting to make is twofold.
1) 80 nozzle CFM isn't much to crow about since much cheaper clean air machines can achieve this figure and
2) A 1980 Electrolux Olympia One with a new vinyl hose can get 75 nozzle CFM.
So 2014-1980 is 34 years and only a 5 CFM improvement from something that touts 505 Airwatts and 116" of water lift? Yes, I'm disappointed.
Bill
I know Mike's Vorwerk is an upright. Geez.
The point I'm attempting to make is twofold.
1) 80 nozzle CFM isn't much to crow about since much cheaper clean air machines can achieve this figure and
2) A 1980 Electrolux Olympia One with a new vinyl hose can get 75 nozzle CFM.
So 2014-1980 is 34 years and only a 5 CFM improvement from something that touts 505 Airwatts and 116" of water lift? Yes, I'm disappointed.
Bill
Some notes about my Vorwerk airflow performance. Motor is 900w (7.5 amps)
Cfm from the body of the vacuum is 108 cfm (baird 9)
Nozzle cfm is around 85-90 cfm.
something to remember is that the canister vacuums need more power (cfm) because the hose will eat quite a bit of cfm.
Cfm from the body of the vacuum is 108 cfm (baird 9)
Nozzle cfm is around 85-90 cfm.
something to remember is that the canister vacuums need more power (cfm) because the hose will eat quite a bit of cfm.
vacfan1982
Well-known member
Yes Mike is correct canisters need more power because the long hose strips it of power.
Bill it's not just about airflow, build quality comes into it too
Lux have excellent build quality and will last many years. Ok you won't get 120 CFM in a canister but you don't need 120 CFM to clean well
Bill it's not just about airflow, build quality comes into it too
Lux have excellent build quality and will last many years. Ok you won't get 120 CFM in a canister but you don't need 120 CFM to clean well
blackheart
Well-known member
It's incredible
How much flow and suction is lost in a bypass design/canister's nozzle. I'm beginning to think that it may partially be intentional. If we retained all the suction of like the lux platinum at the base plate it would undoubtedly seal to the carpeting which would make it hard to push/pull and the brushroll motor would either strain or just stop. Direct air machines have a massive amount of flow but lack enough suction to have this problem.
How much flow and suction is lost in a bypass design/canister's nozzle. I'm beginning to think that it may partially be intentional. If we retained all the suction of like the lux platinum at the base plate it would undoubtedly seal to the carpeting which would make it hard to push/pull and the brushroll motor would either strain or just stop. Direct air machines have a massive amount of flow but lack enough suction to have this problem.
At the hose end this has baird 9 = 108 cfm.
I don't know how much wand eats the airflow.
My Vorwerk with 85 nozzle cfm is nightmare to push. I need to open the air release holes from the powerhead or lower the motor speed to make it usable. So too much airflow + suction can be challenging to manage.
I don't know how much wand eats the airflow.
My Vorwerk with 85 nozzle cfm is nightmare to push. I need to open the air release holes from the powerhead or lower the motor speed to make it usable. So too much airflow + suction can be challenging to manage.
vacfan1982
Well-known member
That is a very good point Devin. The Kirby is also hard to push though with the tech drive off.The Classic series could be hard to push that's why the tech dive was born.
Anyway I'm very happy with the way my canister cleaners perform.
Anyway I'm very happy with the way my canister cleaners perform.
blackheart
Well-known member
Dirt Devil
The Dirt Devil Ultra MVP is by far the strongest bypass machine i've measured with an amazing 129.95 CFM at the base I did get a reading of 128.45 when re-testing it but I tend to use the highest numbers they achieve and in past testing it has reached 4980 FPM or 129.95 CFM.
It is missing an after filter due to the last one being tossed out. They're made of an electrostatic material and they never wash out well.
This machine achieves it's record flow (at least for a bypass) by using a large and short airpath as seen in the 2nd photo.
I've always thought this design to have a lot of potential and with some refinement it could be great.
The Dirt Devil Ultra MVP is by far the strongest bypass machine i've measured with an amazing 129.95 CFM at the base I did get a reading of 128.45 when re-testing it but I tend to use the highest numbers they achieve and in past testing it has reached 4980 FPM or 129.95 CFM.
It is missing an after filter due to the last one being tossed out. They're made of an electrostatic material and they never wash out well.
This machine achieves it's record flow (at least for a bypass) by using a large and short airpath as seen in the 2nd photo.
I've always thought this design to have a lot of potential and with some refinement it could be great.
blackheart
Well-known member
Another unique setup
The Eureka Excalibur, it was an interesting attempt at a 2 motor upright from eureka and while it's flow rate at the floor is decent it should be much more powerful the fill tube is short and wide it uses a metal "door" which has a trigger where the wand is inserted, when the wand is removed a spring pulls this door closed to divert air to the hose. unfortunately this system isn't well sealed and causes a massive loss of power. Either way it was an interesting setup
The Eureka Excalibur, it was an interesting attempt at a 2 motor upright from eureka and while it's flow rate at the floor is decent it should be much more powerful the fill tube is short and wide it uses a metal "door" which has a trigger where the wand is inserted, when the wand is removed a spring pulls this door closed to divert air to the hose. unfortunately this system isn't well sealed and causes a massive loss of power. Either way it was an interesting setup
vaclab
Well-known member
Umm, Devin Are You Sure Those Numbers Aren't Flipped?
After dozens of tests over a few years, I have yet to see airflow increase from the hose down to the power nozzle. It always decreases...a lot.
Are we to believe the Dirt Devil has 80 hose CFM and 130 nozzle CFM? And the Eureka has 49 hose CFM and 87 nozzle CFM?
What am I missing here?
Bill
After dozens of tests over a few years, I have yet to see airflow increase from the hose down to the power nozzle. It always decreases...a lot.
Are we to believe the Dirt Devil has 80 hose CFM and 130 nozzle CFM? And the Eureka has 49 hose CFM and 87 nozzle CFM?
What am I missing here?
Bill
blackheart
Well-known member
Missing piece
neither of these machines are set up like a conventional bypass upright. the Air does not need to travel through the hose to get to the nozzle instead there is a separate air path for the nozzle and one for the hose. You can see a little bit of the mechanism used on the Eureka in some of the additional photos.
neither of these machines are set up like a conventional bypass upright. the Air does not need to travel through the hose to get to the nozzle instead there is a separate air path for the nozzle and one for the hose. You can see a little bit of the mechanism used on the Eureka in some of the additional photos.
vaclab
Well-known member
With Near Kirby Sentria II / Avalir Levels of Airflow
And a small nozzle area, I would imagine that it doesn't (or it's not recommended) make a seal with the carpet? Without a power assist, the airflow density would be so extreme, it wouldn't be usable on pile carpet. Would owners raise the nozzle up too high and break the seal, or would they simply just not use it on higher pile carpet?
I wonder why such a machine was discontinued?
Bill
And a small nozzle area, I would imagine that it doesn't (or it's not recommended) make a seal with the carpet? Without a power assist, the airflow density would be so extreme, it wouldn't be usable on pile carpet. Would owners raise the nozzle up too high and break the seal, or would they simply just not use it on higher pile carpet?
I wonder why such a machine was discontinued?
Bill
