Main Equivalency! Which one would you take?

[royalfan103]

Yes we all better fall into line with Vacuum "facts" opinions. Or else!

Yes. I have already turned myself into his doll.

 

[vgwpg]

I did suggest that you remake your thread early on and remove your biases and opinions from the poll options. This thread is much better since it keeps the poll relatively neutral.

I agree!

 

[centralsweeper63]

I agree with you hatsuwr and vgwpg. I much prefer this thread. Absolute rainbow, I think that people should be able to post what they want as long as it is not offensive, rude or inappropriate.

 

[Hatsuwr]

This thread got me thinking - with how some people complain about vacuum tests using unfair 'construction site' test conditions, maybe the tool brand vacuums might not perform as badly as I first assumed. If certain residential vacuums struggle to pick up dry tea leaves, maybe one designed for harsher conditions might actually come out on top in some important metrics. It would be interesting to see one of the good residential vacuum reviewers test out a Makita.

 

[Ant_Tenna]

If we're talking specifically cordless vacuums you can't really get much closer to a corded vacuum than the Lindhaus Valzer L-Ion (also sold in red as the Karisma L-Ion). It's a Valzer/Karisma upright but cordless. It uses a DC version of Lindhaus' wonderful M30/PB12e powerhead, it's bagged of course, it has an onboard hose and tools, it's very light, and is rated for up to 60 minutes of run time with its large 36V battery. The biggest downside however is price: retail price is $1,499 so it is quite expensive. But it is IMO probably the best cordless vacuum you can get and the closest to an traditional upright.

While I'm not a fan of Riccar's output these days I do hear good things about the Riccar R10CV. I also really like the Vorwerk VK7 cordless upright system even though it's not available in the U.S, and is also quite expensive as well. The Vorwerk and the Valzer L-Ion are what I would have if I wanted a cordless upright.

Now if I absolutely had to pick a cordless stick machine it's easily the Henry Quick for the simple reason it's bagged. If not the Quick I actually think the Dyson V8 is okay. The one thing I'll readily give Dyson is their attachment ecosystem is quite good.

 

[herbicide]

Believe or not I have a V15 and a V7. I too think they are pretty good. But they aren’t by any means the end all be all. Performance wise (my experience here) in max mode they approach what a good plug in can do, but don’t equal it.

Where I find they suffer versus the good bagged units is the amount of maintenance required, and overall build quality (ruggedness). I’m not worried if I accidentally drop a Sebo, but certainly would be if I dropped a Dyson. Heck, I’ve had to epoxy the V7 frame and it’s never been dropped!

 

[cheesewonton]

If we're talking specifically cordless vacuums you can't really get much closer to a corded vacuum than the Lindhaus Valzer L-Ion (also sold in red as the Karisma L-Ion). It's a Valzer/Karisma upright but cordless. It uses a DC version of Lindhaus' wonderful M30/PB12e powerhead, it's bagged of course, it has an onboard hose and tools, it's very light, and is rated for up to 60 minutes of run time with its large 36V battery. The biggest downside however is price: retail price is $1,499 so it is quite expensive. But it is IMO probably the best cordless vacuum you can get and the closest to an traditional upright.

While I'm not a fan of Riccar's output these days I do hear good things about the Riccar R10CV. I also really like the Vorwerk VK7 cordless upright system even though it's not available in the U.S, and is also quite expensive as well. The Vorwerk and the Valzer L-Ion are what I would have if I wanted a cordless upright.

Now if I absolutely had to pick a cordless stick machine it's easily the Henry Quick for the simple reason it's bagged. If not the Quick I actually think the Dyson V8 is okay. The one thing I'll readily give Dyson is their attachment ecosystem is quite good.

You can buy the VK7 from Japan and use it in the US. Japan has 100-105 volt power and they use a plug compatible with US wall outlets. I run a Vorwerk Tiger 260 with the EB360 power brush, sold in Japan as the Lux Sora, on US power routinely. Really good vacuum. I have a Japanese Panasonic Rulo robot vac ( my wife wanted a robot for a couple of the bedrooms that have hard floors as it gets under the bed easily ) and have the charger plugged into a Nissyo 100 volt / 1500 watt transformer. The Nissyo transformers are made in Japan, are rugged and high quality but cost around $115 on eBay. I worry the $30 cheapies from China will burn my house down.

 

[blackheart]

Do sirena and prolux have brushless motors? I've only used one sirena which used a non serviceable brushed motor, perhaps that has changed since then. I know the Hyla EST is brushless. It also seems the new Delphin T8 is brushless too.

We don't see a lot of brushless motors in corded machines and I dunno the few i've used really weren't anything special no airflow or suction beyond anything brushed machines were capable of

 

[vac14012]

This thread got me thinking - with how some people complain about vacuum tests using unfair 'construction site' test conditions, maybe the tool brand vacuums might not perform as badly as I first assumed. If certain residential vacuums struggle to pick up dry tea leaves, maybe one designed for harsher conditions might actually come out on top in some important metrics. It would be interesting to see one of the good residential vacuum reviewers test out a Makita.

This one is apparently completely unusable at anything. But maybe there are better models out there. I haven't done much research into tool brand vacuums.

 

[panasonicvac]

Do sirena and prolux have brushless motors? I've only used one sirena which used a non serviceable brushed motor, perhaps that has changed since then. I know the Hyla EST is brushless. It also seems the new Delphin T8 is brushless too.

We don't see a lot of brushless motors in corded machines and I dunno the few i've used really weren't anything special no airflow or suction beyond anything brushed machines were capable of

I could be wrong, it just seemed like from what I've seen and sounded like based on the designs they were.

 

[kirbylux77]

A full frontal display of ignorance. Maybe spend more time reading before spouting. There are people on this board who have worked in the vacuum industry probably before your parents were born. They have a lot of great information to pass along.

Rainbow is one of the oldest surviving American vacuum manufacturers and they invented the water filtration vacuum. Before HEPA filtration they probably had a pretty good claim to having superior filtration compared to other vacuums of the era except maybe the Electrolux Hospital G ( do you know what that is ? ). Thirty years ago you were lucky to have much more than a 1 mm thick piece of open cell foam for a pre-motor filter and nothing for an exhaust filter, plus a leaky paper dust bag. Or you had a cloth shake out bag upright with no paper bag inside. Yuck! A Rainbow caught more crud in the water bowl than other vacuums caught in their, cough cough, "filters" so they had a legitimate claim to superior filtration. But with the widespread adoption of HEPA filter media ( which comes from the nuclear industry btw ) by vacuum makers today even Rainbow has to have a pleated exhaust filter to be able to claim HEPA filtration. Without that pleated filter a Rainbow cannot match the filtration of a vacuum with a HEPA exhaust filter.

Not so fast there, Cheesewonton! Filter Queen would take 1st place for best filtration back in the old days, along with Electrolux. There was a study done in the early 90s by a American university that showed that the Rainbow D4 only captured about 40% of the exhaust emissions it produces, whereas a Panasonic upright with a micro-filtration bag captured over 85% of it's exhaust emissions. Consumer Reports called out Rainbow in 1996 in the magazine, and it's their poor rating that forced Rainbow to introduce the E Series with the Hepa Neutralizer.

 

[cheesewonton]

Do sirena and prolux have brushless motors? I've only used one sirena which used a non serviceable brushed motor, perhaps that has changed since then. I know the Hyla EST is brushless. It also seems the new Delphin T8 is brushless too.

We don't see a lot of brushless motors in corded machines and I dunno the few i've used really weren't anything special no airflow or suction beyond anything brushed machines were capable of

Based on a Hyla promotional video showing their manufacture, the motor is a conventional brushed commutated motor. The first views of their motor occur 13 seconds into this video.

 

[cheesewonton]

Yeah at least when it comes to residential vacuums, Rainbow along with it's rivals Sirena and Prolux are the only ones I can think of with digital motors being made today. If they count, some wet dry vacs like Shop Vac use a digital motor as well.

Anyways I put in other because I don't care about cordless machines in general, I do like Kirby but they're not my favorite to use.

The motor Sirena uses appears to be a thoroughly conventional commutated peripheral bypass motor. You can see the wires attached to the carbon brushes in this image. Click on the image to magnify it.

https://www.goodvac.com/Sirena_S10NA_Motor_p/sirena-mj121002103.htm

 

[cheesewonton]

Not so fast there, Cheesewonton! Filter Queen would take 1st place for best filtration back in the old days, along with Electrolux. There was a study done in the early 90s by a American university that showed that the Rainbow D4 only captured about 40% of the exhaust emissions it produces, whereas a Panasonic upright with a micro-filtration bag captured over 85% of it's exhaust emissions. Consumer Reports called out Rainbow in 1996 in the magazine, and it's their poor rating that forced Rainbow to introduce the E Series with the Hepa Neutralizer.

Today, yes, Rainbow is nothing special in terms of filtration. But forty years ago most vacuums were either some fabric shake out bag upwrong or a canister vacuum that used a porous paper bag and had at most a 1 mm thick ( thin ) piece of open cell foam on a plastic frame by way of a pre-motor filter. Electrolux had no pre motor filter at all and if you ever took an old Silverado or similar Electrolux apart you know how much dirt got past the bag to crud up the motor housing and the area under the upper body panel. Electrolux, with the exception of the Hospital G, didn't have exhaust filters until the plastic body models came out in the mid 1980s, while the unfiltered steel bodies remained in production through the late 1980s. I have enough old Panasonic Jet Flo upwrongs to know all they had was some open cell foam for filtration and I've torn enough of them down to know how much shmutz gets past their bags ( which really only stop the big chunks and let all the fine dust pass right through ). Their foam filters were worthless too. So compared to what was on the market through the 1980s Rainbow could legitimately claim to have some advantage in terms of filtration. They had very little suction and airflow but they filtered well.

 

[Hatsuwr]

This one is apparently completely unusable at anything. But maybe there are better models out there. I haven't done much research into tool brand vacuums.

Ouch, that one looks terrible. What is that tiny little bag lol? Seems like it is rated at 35 CFM and 22 inH2O.

Their current best one is rated at 53 CFM and 31 inH2O, and comes with a cyclone attachment. Quite a bit better in ratings, but I don't think any of these style are going to have a rotating brush

 

[cheesewonton]

Ouch, that one looks terrible. What is that tiny little bag lol? Seems like it is rated at 35 CFM and 22 inH2O.

Their current best one is rated at 53 CFM and 31 inH2O, and comes with a cyclone attachment. Quite a bit better in ratings, but I don't think any of these style are going to have a rotating brush

If it can truly generate 53 cfm at the attachment end that is double what a Tristar can produce at the end of the hose, though the Tristar will also give you around 62-64 inches of suction at the end of that same hose. My corded VAPamore ( CRAPamore ) MR500 Vento produces a measured 30 cfm ( and 80-82 inches of water lift ) at the end of the hose.

 

[blackheart]

I could be wrong, it just seemed like from what I've seen and sounded like based on the designs they were.

Fair enough, I just thought I'd check in case they had updated them and i was just unaware. I did have a Sirena which i bought used of marketplace and found that it was non serviceable due to it having a washer like press fitted to the shaft rather than having a removable nut.

Based on a Hyla promotional video showing their manufacture, the motor is a conventional brushed commutated motor. The first views of their motor occur 13 seconds into this video.

That video was posted 8 years ago the models before the EST (NST, GST) were brushed but the EST is brushless, but again non serviceable


I don't know what it is with these motors, water machines really should have a serviceable motor in them.

 

[centralsweeper63]

Everything should have a serviceable everything in my opinion. Everything can be bodged though, like the v16. The hyla est is an interesting idea with the spinning thing, or as they call it the "defender", to create a sort of shield of water vapour.

 

[cheesewonton]

Everything should have a serviceable everything in my opinion. Everything can be bodged though, like the v16. The hyla est is an interesting idea with the spinning thing, or as they call it the "defender", to create a sort of shield of water vapour.

Hyla is a copy of a Rexair Rainbow. That cyclonic separator dates to the very first Rexair from 1935.

 

[centralsweeper63]

Yeah, I know. Just how hyla's separator works looked a bit different. Though on second look they are much more similar than I had thought.

 

[Absolute Rainbow]

Wow. I have been banned for forcing you guys to... Well, you know. Sorry.

It's just that I found this thread very redundant. Sorry if you've been offended.

 

[Absolute Rainbow]

https://vacuumland.org/threads/pick-your-poison-main-equivalency-which-one-would-you-take.46870/

I have just remade my own thread. Good lord!

 

[Alan]

Use this thread not the replacement locked thread.

 

[Hatsuwr]

The saga continues lol...

I do have a question though. Which brands would you say are best and worst in regard to parts compatibility across generations? Seems easy enough to accomplish to a fair degree if they cared to do so.

 

[centralsweeper63]

Dyson stick vacuums happen to only have filters that are compatible across 1-2 models. Dyson's can be opened up if you have an engineering degree and a pile of money. Miele's triflex design is fairly easy to service I hear. If you try to shove lots of stuff in a small area in will naturally be complicated to repair. Kirby parts have been mostly interchangeably for 30+ years.

 

[cheesewonton]

The saga continues lol...

I do have a question though. Which brands would you say are best and worst in regard to parts compatibility across generations? Seems easy enough to accomplish to a fair degree if they cared to do so.

Consider that I recently rebuilt the old Whirlpool first gen geared belt Powermate that came with my 1982 Kenmore "Sears Best 4.1" canister using the brush roll, belt and drive motor for a Titan T7 power nozzle. That old Whirlpool design that first appeared in 1981 with an earlier Sears Best canister vacuum model has been in more or less continuous production first by Whirlpool, then Panasonic and now by Suzhou Cleva Electric Appliance Co Ltd and sold under a bunch of different brand names. The upper cover styling has changed over the years and the base went from only two ribs over the brush roll opening to I think four now, but none of the internal dimensions or mounting points have changed in all those years. This has allowed me to update that old noisy geared belt power nozzle to a modern silent poly v-belt drive and modern chevron pattern brush roll. All the Titan parts dropped right in. No filing, no bending. Everything fit perfect. It also has an updated quick disconnect neck and wand filched from a Hayden Deluxe nozzle, which was just a Hayden branded version of the Whirlpool design serendipitously molded in the same almond tan color used by my 82 Kenny. Old school modern I call it.

I'm also able to use many modern Titan and Kenmore parts to fix much older Panasonic and even some 1980s Whirlpool made Kenmore vacuums. The part numbers and color of the plastic have changed over the decades but the shape and functionality have not. Items like the bag dock haven't changed meaningfully since 1984.

Aerus / Electrolux is another company where parts fit across models from several decades. Not a lot of difference between a 1992 vintage Epic 6000 SR and a modern Aerus Legacy other than body color and the motor / motor housing inside, much of which can be swapped around if one knows what fits what. Likewise that Aerus Classic has been around since 1984 ( ! ) under a whole bunch of different names ( LE, 2100, Hi-Tech, Diplomat, Ambassador, and now the Classic ). Same story, different color body and trim but the guts haven't changed much over the years. And what is cool is that the Perfect C101 is so close to the old Electrolux 1521, the last of the steel body Electrolux canisters, that most parts interchange. In fact those Perfect canisters have given a new lease on life for the parts and especially the hoses for those old vintage Electrolux canisters.

Here are some images of my old 1982 Kenmore Powermate being updated with Titan T7 parts so you can see I'm not talking out of my blower port.

 

[centralsweeper63]

Oh yeah, I had forgot about that old Kenny powered.

 

[Absolute Rainbow]

Now that the new replacement has been locked for being deemed as spam-ish, @royalfan103 since I cannot force anyone to get out of this thread and back to my original... Might as well remember this thread please.

Here's what's the options look like:
- Dyson V16 Piston Animal (and Submarine), the crippled mains-equivalent. This thing is the most advanced ever, succeeding the vaunted Gen5 (should've been named V15 Advanced, but alas) - 315AW (for above-floor and crevices) lighter, have bin compression (CleanCompaktor), PencilVac-styled shroud (patented, dang it!), dynamic Root Cyclone technology (opens up more cyclones in Boost mode), whole-machine HEPA filtration, pro particle counter with proper sensors, and so much more. Normally, it's Dyson's very best machine to date, but at launch, it is crippled out of the box: as @Vacuum Facts and @frickhelm have noticed and the former have found out for real, the machine has been crippled out of the box and has to be fixed either by an easy but warranty-risking modification (as VF have mentioned) or an actual revision. The V16 ships with the new dual-cone floorhead (All Floor Cones Sense) for both hard floors and carpets at once (featuring a new version of the existing green laser), which was mis-blamed for the cripple but only the angled front wall could've posed any major problems (the thin unswept strip at the center isn't as bad as those olden belts in old brush bars, especially given that the big mess tests not being representative of the cleaning performance).
- Samsung Bespoke AI Jet Ultra (and by extension, Bespoke AI Jet Lite), the wasteful flagship. At up to 400AW (Jet mode, not Max (125AW) or Boost (Dyson)), Jet Ultra is the most powerful cordless machine on the market as of 2025, meaning it has excellent above-floor/crevice potential (even the Lite's 280AW Jet matches the vaunted Gen5's Boost mode). The 2025 Jet is also AI-powered, but with more software kick instead of Dyson's more sensors. Two versions of Samsung's new motor performs differently and weighs differently, so we have Ultra and Lite in the same body, with all the same base features except for the batteries (Ultra is up to 100 minutes per battery on Eco, compared to Dyson's 70+ and normal ~60). But the cyclonic system in the Samsung (which finally claimed HEPA, but I'm very unsure of because there's no direct mention of whole-machine sealing) is wasteful, with 3 inlets per cyclone instead of just the perfect 1 like in Dyson's - and the dual-brushrolls floorhead is no less wasteful, not only being bulky and only partially motor-driven (the regular brush bar but not the soft roller), but there's little proper sealing aside from felt strips, and the end result is poorer cleaning performance (as proven by RTINGS). Samsung still also duped from Dyson's revolutionary form factor but ended up being way too front-heavy even for in-line forms (at least Dyson chose gun-ish design)! Ships with the self-emptying station, one of (if not THE) the only true innovation the copycats made over Dyson since the mains-equivalent era started (V10).
- Dreame Z30, the alleged Dyson killer. This 315AW Chinese machine is yet another Dyson copycats with their own motor, and they have nice above-floor and crevice cleaning potential. While not directly as wasteful as the Samsung, the Dreame have somewhat sloppy take on Dyson's pre-Piston designs: hair vanes only on center instead of throughout width, flimsy front gate, clunky take on laser tech, basic bristles, and wrong power consumption on each floorhead, just to name a few. Most egregiously though, is an inferior particle counter, which turns the Auto mode into literally Eco mode that occasionally rush into Boost mode and back with only primarily excessive dust concentration (not to mention inaccurate readings). Worse tools than even Samsung's, which fall shorts of Dyson's (both pre- and onto-V16 Piston with connectors aboard).
- SEBO Balance A1, truly not meant to be mains-equivalent. Sebo's late Dyson copycat looks eerily like a V10, but have inferior specs (only 48 minutes instead of 60? Bruh) and way inferior cyclones and tools. While visually the most similar out of the modern copycats (most cordless dupes are shaped MUCH more like DC35 and V8, not V10 onwards), A1 is actually weak and Sebo rightfully chose not to treat it as anything more than a companion for their corded and bagged machines with asymmetrical-shell brushbar and so on, so forth.
- Lupe Pure, a lost cause with rather curious making. This is a cordless upright with dual brushrolls, with barely cyclonic bin and of course, classical hassle trying to convert into lift-up/portable and back. The fact Lupe is out of business means the Lupe Pure is officially lost to time, never to get any more chance to revolutionize anything ever again.
- Henry Quick, a smiley-face trying to invade the trend. This is an in-line vacuum with a freaking bag. Yep, it's bagged. While it's very easy to empty and can be hygienic, it can smell (what else can explain the Henry pods?) and it will have to be thrown away itself along the content it holds, rather than dumping only the contents as is the case in all bagless designs... therefore, running cost for Henry! Oh, and the specs isn't that competitive (aside from the 60-minute battery), and it's not as environment-positive as it wants you to believe (the trash sucked in the vacuum is the only thing that should be dumped to landfills, not the not-free parts of an entire machine)!
- Any version of Dyson V8, the flagship turned budget vacuum. This one has a pretty long history, dating back to 2016, and had to be refreshed and rebuilt a few times already. Also, while it's compact and feel like ergonomic DC35 at hand with everything so close to the hand, it cannot contain much content at once and it isn't going to be as powerful - only the new V8 Cyclone has the power and efficiency to be able to become mains-equivalent - might as well be a handheld otherwise. That trigger is smart and efficient but can tire your finger in continuous use.
- eufy E20, the space-saving measure itself... not exactly entirely, but the E20 is made to be both a robot vacuum and a stick vac at once. This means small and thus easily less powerful stuffs in the actual machine, just to accommodate this hybrid design. That robot is unsure, while the stick vac might as well be a freaking handheld.
- Kirby, the myth, the legend, the mains-power! From Tech Drive to clunky metals to extremely slow evolution, this thing is actually not worth being in 21st century (Vacuum Facts has good points). In fact, with belt-drive, dangerous weight, bagged shebang and sleazy door-to-door sales, the Kirby is only good for big mess and un-backed shaggy rug - that excessive vibration doesn't count outside of under the brushbar, and so on, so far, blah blah blah... It's very ancient and yet still considered legendary even to this day, to the point of comparing to any cordless sticks? Geez... (If you still like Kirby, sure, just vote for it)
- And the others. Shark, LG, Miele, Bissell, Panasonic, Kenwood, central vacuums, tool brands, and all other copycats of, say, Dyson's DC35 and V10, with either innovations to outdated stuffs or lack of proper R&D. It's a wild-west, and the biggest reason why these count as a single option is because... well, VacuumLand.org maxes out at 10 options per poll.

 

[Hatsuwr]

- Dyson V16 Piston Animal the thin unswept strip at the center isn't as bad as those olden belts in old brush bars

If only we had options besides 'old machines with large center belts' and 'Dyson's clone of the uncleaned center strip concept'.

I guess the technology just isn't there yet...

 

[cheesewonton]

If only we had options besides 'old machines with large center belts' and 'Dyson's clone of the uncleaned center strip concept'.

I guess the technology just isn't there yet...

An Aerus Heavy Duty upright, or any of the old Electrolux Discovery based uprights that spawned the current Aerus Heavy Duty including uprights from Pro Team and Perfect all have the belt on the far end and the suction inlet right in the center of the nozzle. There is a soft bagged upright design sold by CleanMax and Carpet Pro that has suction inlets and fans on both sides of the nozzle, basically a modern version of the old but reliable Singer Twin Fan design.