Main Equivalency! Which one would you take?

[royalfan103]

Yes we all better fall into line with Vacuum "facts" opinions. Or else!

Yes. I have already turned myself into his doll.

 

[vgwpg]

I did suggest that you remake your thread early on and remove your biases and opinions from the poll options. This thread is much better since it keeps the poll relatively neutral.

I agree!

 

[centralsweeper63]

I agree with you hatsuwr and vgwpg. I much prefer this thread. Absolute rainbow, I think that people should be able to post what they want as long as it is not offensive, rude or inappropriate.

 

[Hatsuwr]

This thread got me thinking - with how some people complain about vacuum tests using unfair 'construction site' test conditions, maybe the tool brand vacuums might not perform as badly as I first assumed. If certain residential vacuums struggle to pick up dry tea leaves, maybe one designed for harsher conditions might actually come out on top in some important metrics. It would be interesting to see one of the good residential vacuum reviewers test out a Makita.

 

[Ant_Tenna]

If we're talking specifically cordless vacuums you can't really get much closer to a corded vacuum than the Lindhaus Valzer L-Ion (also sold in red as the Karisma L-Ion). It's a Valzer/Karisma upright but cordless. It uses a DC version of Lindhaus' wonderful M30/PB12e powerhead, it's bagged of course, it has an onboard hose and tools, it's very light, and is rated for up to 60 minutes of run time with its large 36V battery. The biggest downside however is price: retail price is $1,499 so it is quite expensive. But it is IMO probably the best cordless vacuum you can get and the closest to an traditional upright.

While I'm not a fan of Riccar's output these days I do hear good things about the Riccar R10CV. I also really like the Vorwerk VK7 cordless upright system even though it's not available in the U.S, and is also quite expensive as well. The Vorwerk and the Valzer L-Ion are what I would have if I wanted a cordless upright.

Now if I absolutely had to pick a cordless stick machine it's easily the Henry Quick for the simple reason it's bagged. If not the Quick I actually think the Dyson V8 is okay. The one thing I'll readily give Dyson is their attachment ecosystem is quite good.

 

[herbicide]

Believe or not I have a V15 and a V7. I too think they are pretty good. But they aren’t by any means the end all be all. Performance wise (my experience here) in max mode they approach what a good plug in can do, but don’t equal it.

Where I find they suffer versus the good bagged units is the amount of maintenance required, and overall build quality (ruggedness). I’m not worried if I accidentally drop a Sebo, but certainly would be if I dropped a Dyson. Heck, I’ve had to epoxy the V7 frame and it’s never been dropped!

 

[cheesewonton]

If we're talking specifically cordless vacuums you can't really get much closer to a corded vacuum than the Lindhaus Valzer L-Ion (also sold in red as the Karisma L-Ion). It's a Valzer/Karisma upright but cordless. It uses a DC version of Lindhaus' wonderful M30/PB12e powerhead, it's bagged of course, it has an onboard hose and tools, it's very light, and is rated for up to 60 minutes of run time with its large 36V battery. The biggest downside however is price: retail price is $1,499 so it is quite expensive. But it is IMO probably the best cordless vacuum you can get and the closest to an traditional upright.

While I'm not a fan of Riccar's output these days I do hear good things about the Riccar R10CV. I also really like the Vorwerk VK7 cordless upright system even though it's not available in the U.S, and is also quite expensive as well. The Vorwerk and the Valzer L-Ion are what I would have if I wanted a cordless upright.

Now if I absolutely had to pick a cordless stick machine it's easily the Henry Quick for the simple reason it's bagged. If not the Quick I actually think the Dyson V8 is okay. The one thing I'll readily give Dyson is their attachment ecosystem is quite good.

You can buy the VK7 from Japan and use it in the US. Japan has 100-105 volt power and they use a plug compatible with US wall outlets. I run a Vorwerk Tiger 260 with the EB360 power brush, sold in Japan as the Lux Sora, on US power routinely. Really good vacuum. I have a Japanese Panasonic Rulo robot vac ( my wife wanted a robot for a couple of the bedrooms that have hard floors as it gets under the bed easily ) and have the charger plugged into a Nissyo 100 volt / 1500 watt transformer. The Nissyo transformers are made in Japan, are rugged and high quality but cost around $115 on eBay. I worry the $30 cheapies from China will burn my house down.

 

[blackheart]

Do sirena and prolux have brushless motors? I've only used one sirena which used a non serviceable brushed motor, perhaps that has changed since then. I know the Hyla EST is brushless. It also seems the new Delphin T8 is brushless too.

We don't see a lot of brushless motors in corded machines and I dunno the few i've used really weren't anything special no airflow or suction beyond anything brushed machines were capable of

 

[vac14012]

This thread got me thinking - with how some people complain about vacuum tests using unfair 'construction site' test conditions, maybe the tool brand vacuums might not perform as badly as I first assumed. If certain residential vacuums struggle to pick up dry tea leaves, maybe one designed for harsher conditions might actually come out on top in some important metrics. It would be interesting to see one of the good residential vacuum reviewers test out a Makita.

This one is apparently completely unusable at anything. But maybe there are better models out there. I haven't done much research into tool brand vacuums.

 

[panasonicvac]

Do sirena and prolux have brushless motors? I've only used one sirena which used a non serviceable brushed motor, perhaps that has changed since then. I know the Hyla EST is brushless. It also seems the new Delphin T8 is brushless too.

We don't see a lot of brushless motors in corded machines and I dunno the few i've used really weren't anything special no airflow or suction beyond anything brushed machines were capable of

I could be wrong, it just seemed like from what I've seen and sounded like based on the designs they were.

 

[kirbylux77]

A full frontal display of ignorance. Maybe spend more time reading before spouting. There are people on this board who have worked in the vacuum industry probably before your parents were born. They have a lot of great information to pass along.

Rainbow is one of the oldest surviving American vacuum manufacturers and they invented the water filtration vacuum. Before HEPA filtration they probably had a pretty good claim to having superior filtration compared to other vacuums of the era except maybe the Electrolux Hospital G ( do you know what that is ? ). Thirty years ago you were lucky to have much more than a 1 mm thick piece of open cell foam for a pre-motor filter and nothing for an exhaust filter, plus a leaky paper dust bag. Or you had a cloth shake out bag upright with no paper bag inside. Yuck! A Rainbow caught more crud in the water bowl than other vacuums caught in their, cough cough, "filters" so they had a legitimate claim to superior filtration. But with the widespread adoption of HEPA filter media ( which comes from the nuclear industry btw ) by vacuum makers today even Rainbow has to have a pleated exhaust filter to be able to claim HEPA filtration. Without that pleated filter a Rainbow cannot match the filtration of a vacuum with a HEPA exhaust filter.

Not so fast there, Cheesewonton! Filter Queen would take 1st place for best filtration back in the old days, along with Electrolux. There was a study done in the early 90s by a American university that showed that the Rainbow D4 only captured about 40% of the exhaust emissions it produces, whereas a Panasonic upright with a micro-filtration bag captured over 85% of it's exhaust emissions. Consumer Reports called out Rainbow in 1996 in the magazine, and it's their poor rating that forced Rainbow to introduce the E Series with the Hepa Neutralizer.

 

[cheesewonton]

Do sirena and prolux have brushless motors? I've only used one sirena which used a non serviceable brushed motor, perhaps that has changed since then. I know the Hyla EST is brushless. It also seems the new Delphin T8 is brushless too.

We don't see a lot of brushless motors in corded machines and I dunno the few i've used really weren't anything special no airflow or suction beyond anything brushed machines were capable of

Based on a Hyla promotional video showing their manufacture, the motor is a conventional brushed commutated motor. The first views of their motor occur 13 seconds into this video.

 

[cheesewonton]

Yeah at least when it comes to residential vacuums, Rainbow along with it's rivals Sirena and Prolux are the only ones I can think of with digital motors being made today. If they count, some wet dry vacs like Shop Vac use a digital motor as well.

Anyways I put in other because I don't care about cordless machines in general, I do like Kirby but they're not my favorite to use.

The motor Sirena uses appears to be a thoroughly conventional commutated peripheral bypass motor. You can see the wires attached to the carbon brushes in this image. Click on the image to magnify it.

https://www.goodvac.com/Sirena_S10NA_Motor_p/sirena-mj121002103.htm

 

[cheesewonton]

Not so fast there, Cheesewonton! Filter Queen would take 1st place for best filtration back in the old days, along with Electrolux. There was a study done in the early 90s by a American university that showed that the Rainbow D4 only captured about 40% of the exhaust emissions it produces, whereas a Panasonic upright with a micro-filtration bag captured over 85% of it's exhaust emissions. Consumer Reports called out Rainbow in 1996 in the magazine, and it's their poor rating that forced Rainbow to introduce the E Series with the Hepa Neutralizer.

Today, yes, Rainbow is nothing special in terms of filtration. But forty years ago most vacuums were either some fabric shake out bag upwrong or a canister vacuum that used a porous paper bag and had at most a 1 mm thick ( thin ) piece of open cell foam on a plastic frame by way of a pre-motor filter. Electrolux had no pre motor filter at all and if you ever took an old Silverado or similar Electrolux apart you know how much dirt got past the bag to crud up the motor housing and the area under the upper body panel. Electrolux, with the exception of the Hospital G, didn't have exhaust filters until the plastic body models came out in the mid 1980s, while the unfiltered steel bodies remained in production through the late 1980s. I have enough old Panasonic Jet Flo upwrongs to know all they had was some open cell foam for filtration and I've torn enough of them down to know how much shmutz gets past their bags ( which really only stop the big chunks and let all the fine dust pass right through ). Their foam filters were worthless too. So compared to what was on the market through the 1980s Rainbow could legitimately claim to have some advantage in terms of filtration. They had very little suction and airflow but they filtered well.

 

[Hatsuwr]

This one is apparently completely unusable at anything. But maybe there are better models out there. I haven't done much research into tool brand vacuums.

Ouch, that one looks terrible. What is that tiny little bag lol? Seems like it is rated at 35 CFM and 22 inH2O.

Their current best one is rated at 53 CFM and 31 inH2O, and comes with a cyclone attachment. Quite a bit better in ratings, but I don't think any of these style are going to have a rotating brush

 

[cheesewonton]

Ouch, that one looks terrible. What is that tiny little bag lol? Seems like it is rated at 35 CFM and 22 inH2O.

Their current best one is rated at 53 CFM and 31 inH2O, and comes with a cyclone attachment. Quite a bit better in ratings, but I don't think any of these style are going to have a rotating brush

If it can truly generate 53 cfm at the attachment end that is double what a Tristar can produce at the end of the hose, though the Tristar will also give you around 62-64 inches of suction at the end of that same hose. My corded VAPamore ( CRAPamore ) MR500 Vento produces a measured 30 cfm ( and 80-82 inches of water lift ) at the end of the hose.

 

[blackheart]

I could be wrong, it just seemed like from what I've seen and sounded like based on the designs they were.

Fair enough, I just thought I'd check in case they had updated them and i was just unaware. I did have a Sirena which i bought used of marketplace and found that it was non serviceable due to it having a washer like press fitted to the shaft rather than having a removable nut.

Based on a Hyla promotional video showing their manufacture, the motor is a conventional brushed commutated motor. The first views of their motor occur 13 seconds into this video.

That video was posted 8 years ago the models before the EST (NST, GST) were brushed but the EST is brushless, but again non serviceable


I don't know what it is with these motors, water machines really should have a serviceable motor in them.