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Kirby? A hate/love relationship

I do not subscribe to the "you haven't got the truth yet, the Kirby is great, Kirby must be doing something right" storyline (which implies that someone is not thinking correctly). It is NOT the consumer or the questionning vacland member that has to rethink things, but Kirby themselves:

There are some points:
The Kirby is great. As a vacuum for carpeted large areas, that is.
Everything that is metal on it is durable.

But then: Kirby cares? Nuh-uh....
They are selling them on killing the current vacs in the homes (see the other post above), they do not bother about customers' needs.
As long as the dollars are ok, they will not bother to improve or update things at all.
I am more than sure that the coming Kirby is a continuation of "how to keep the old stuff selling" (or some other meeting-table discussion result of "how do we move all this stuff to the customer")

I wonder if Mr J. Kirby would have liked this neglectance.

Talking about current Kirbys (the G3 upwards to Sentria series):

Metal parts ok. Yet everything that is plastic on it (and it keeps getting more) is shaky, wobbly. (Look at the upper plastic handle, it gives you a wobbly feeling, it is bending slightly (at least on G series), it is not sturdy enough to keep a straight line to the lower metal part.) Does NOT show quality to me. All back-of-the handle cable clamps or loops breaking all the time, a standard shrugg-it-off item for Kirby Corp.

Design: Outdated, outdated, outdated. (Always some 20 years back compared to now or to compared to what was current or modern back than. Always behind.) Ok, the G-series do look a bit more "Startrooper-like" than the former non-driven models. But even THOSE look like a phonographs in times of an MP3-player, don't they.) Alright, in the beginning (up to WW2) Kirby vacs looked somewhat contemporary because the competion did not look any other - but the clasp between up-to-date and outdated kept expanding from there on more and more.

Tools: Flimsical (best description I could find)
There are tons of other firms that make better tools than this.

Details:
- Caddy box: What a joke! Even the old one was better with its fitted ports. The current one is worse than a collapsible laundry basket as it cannot even hold the hose correcty with this velcro strap. No thinking included: "Everything has its place" say the philosophers. "Some stuff has its place, the rest can be thrown in the big hole in the middle" says Kirby. *Headshakes here*
- Hose: Went from wired spiral and 3-layer to plastic 1-layer (any walmart vac can do that)
- Crevice tool, the radiator brush: "Mickrig" in German (weakish/limp). Not to be taken seriously. Will not even touch lateral radiator parts unless poking it at an angle all along. Compare Miele, Lux, Vorwerk, Siemens, Moulinex, Volta, .... (they all can do better)
- Wall brush: To be thought over: Wired bristle frame keeps falling out all the time. It just unsnaps and falls down. (Had this from the Heritage to current models here).
- Wands: Still plastic, still breakable (other than they announce). Why not have metal and telescopic? And don't come up now with "using the elbow handle" (That can be done using some brains and inventing better stuff than stick-together-tubes). How about some snap joint? Invent!
- Zip brush: Terribly rattling after some years, due to not using roller bearings (just bushings and some plastic framework)= Surely not worth roughly somewhat less than 100,- € (what they take for it here)
- Upholstery nozzle, its snap-on plate: Has no bristles, has no nylon threads lifter pad. Why not?
- Surface/floor nozzle: The most ridiculous "rattle-a-tism" or contraption I have ever seen.
PVC all breakable, a terribly useless brush strip, mini rollers to get clogged, almost no air path calculation done (just a randomly contrived dome to suck things up -> air flow reduced) and so forth. No metal plate, no floor-to-carpet adjustment, no pedal for this (let alone an automatic mechanism), no nothing, just a bunch of recylced plastic. Yet the idea of having an airstream very close the floor is nice. But the actual device is pure junk (to me). So = 1 step though over (floor air stream), all others left out.

And then: The belt lifter mechanism: 3 steps to unattach the front nozzle, then some more to attach the hose. (Go through the Bison story if you want, but that man had it right: The belt lifter IS a nuisance.) A one-click solution would be nowaday's minimum standard. THEY (Kirby) must be thinking, not us.

Imagined example: 1 click (or foot kick) and the nozzle falls off. 1 push (or click) and the hose is on. (Do NOT come up with "yes, but the belt.." = it is Kirby Corp. that has to do the thinking here).

Yet, a Kirby's cleaning results on tuft carpet (a bit less so on bouclé) are outstanding.
On flat surfaces and above the floor the Kirby is average or less than that.

To buy one:
In smaller/smallest appartments with a lot of furniture or with no carpet at all, the Kirby is (as a matter of fact) a wrong investment.
Yet the Kirby Company keeps pushing their salesforce to sell them everywhere (meaning in small(er)(est) habitations, too) but denies having anything to do with these tactics of sales pressure (claiming: It's all the independent dealers, not us).

This is simply a lie.
If they were depending on those "independent" (which those are not at all) dealers, they would rethink the machine design to meet consumers's needs. But they just shove their "requirements" down the throats of the dealers and that is tranported on to the selling staff and into the homes all where the pressure vents in hard sales tactics and grumpy clients.

I BET the new Kirby will NOT be made to meet people's needs, but to "how can we keep our blockheads and move the stuff out to the houses fast" (again) - useless technical or unnecessary double-use solutions included.

I wonder if Mr J. Kirby would have liked this current neglectance.
 
Thanks for your

Thoughts Joe but you are 100% wrong about Kirby all I have to say is come this weekend eat your words because this new Kirby will shock you and many others .

The future of Kirby arrives very soon TOATALLY redesigned .

I also disagree about every thing you wrote about a Kirby being flimsy oh and about Bison and they're
beltlifterless nozzle most every single one has broken and those who own a Bison that haven't broken do not use the machines as a daily vacuum .

Also where is Bison today ? Oh didn't they go out of business ???

Dan
 
Ouch.

That was an unnecessarily snippy reply, kirbyloverdan. Everyone is entitled to their opinions, and you don't need to attack someone who is expressing theirs. I don't care for the G Series whatsoever, I find them over-complicated, loud, and heavy as hell. I would take a Heritage II-Legend over a G series any day. 
 
I think

We should wait and see what this thing brings. I'm not a Kirby lover by any stretch but still own several. I'm curious to see what they come up with. You're going to get one of two things, a recolor scheme version of the Sentria or an actual redesign. I really really really (can't stress that enough) hope they take an approach like Rainbow did switching to the E Series. Sure they are making a lot of money selling virtually the same machine year after year and it does clean well, but if you look at the current Rainbow it actually seems high tech despite using a lot from a very old design, and has updated a lot of stuff to fit current trends. It has genuinely useful, easy to use attachments. I can pull out my Kirby Classic III and it isn't drastically different than the more current models. A Rainbow in contrast looks like an antique in comparison. Even my most current Kirby, a G6, isn't that much different. I hope Kirby does this justice and makes something truly awesome.
 
I can see

Both sides of the coin.....even though I hate ALL new machines!LOL, A Kirby is a reliable, well built cleaner that does a wonderful job.....in a big open house, My partner Donald calls them a boat anchor, I dont go that far, but I do wish they made the option of a narrow head, they have been way too wide since the Classic was introduced....but then, if it was up to me, a self defrosting refrigerator would be outlawed and all cars would have fins and pushbuttons...so im no judge of what anyone wants today, personally I wouldnt trade a Compact or an Electrolux for every upright ever made.
 
Um ... not entirely accurate ...

"They buy one because someone shows up at their door, talks their way inside, and makes them UNHAPPY with their Current vacuum."

I know two Kirby salesmen in the New York area and they most certainly do NOT blindly go door-to-door.

Believe it or not, people DO wake up one day, realize they're tired of spending good money on disposable plastivac screaming nightmares, do their homework, and pro-actively contact Kirby for a demonstration after they've pretty much already made up their minds to buy a quality vacuum.
 
Why no "compact" Kirby?

You could ask why Rolls Royce doesn't make a "compact" car: because they just DON'T. Either you want the Rolls Royce of vacuums, or you don't. It's neither good nor bad, it's simply about what you want and what you're willing to pay for. And for Kirby, it's about sticking with a business model that has consistently served them well for decades.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it!

(For the record, I will concede that I went out of my way to purchase a beautifully restored Dual Sanitronic 80, which has the narrower 13" brushroll, as opposed to the 16" brushroll the company has been using on all post-1970 models. In smaller spaces, those 3 fewer inches of width make a huge difference in maneuverability. However, that being said, the "footprint" of my vintage Kirby is no bigger than a Dyson or most other modern "plastivacs".)
 
Well in my opinion they should cater for small to medium size homes with a 12 to 13" brushroll. Why only cater for large homes? I can't see why they are so against offering a full sized Kirby and a compact Kirby. It makes sense to me.
 
I wouldn't call Sebo a disposable plastic screaming nightmare. They are extremely well built ,very reliable give great performance and are user friendly. Some kinds of plastic are very durable. In fact Kirby are using more and more plastic on their machines including the fan that can be damaged by coins or screws.
 
Why only cater for large homes?

Funny you should mention this, I have a D80 which is tiny in comparison to my in-law's ultimate G and no heavier than a Dyson. I think the main issue would be that if Kirby started offering a smaller, lighweight machine with the same performance, nobody would buy the larger model.

It was really only with the G3 that Kirby became excessively large. We had a Legend 2 when I was growing up and that was fine being used in a standard 3 bed British semi-detached (not that my mother used it much, prefering to use her much lighter Panasonic).

I actually don't think the tech drive does Kirby any favours. Before the tech drive, it didn't need tech drive.
 
Well I think you've just proved my point Turbo. If they produced a lighter model with the same performance no one would buy the larger model.And they would increase their sales too. Just my opinion :-)
 
I think there is some point to making the Kirby for smaller places-the solution could be simple-just offer a narrower floor nozzle head as opposed to the larger one.I think you are going to see the size of homes getting SMALLER-not larger.Cost of the bigger place-more maintenance,and more energy required to heat,cool,light it.As it is-larger homes in my area are not selling.The "For Sale" signs in front of them have weeds growing around the signs!Some have been up for sale for a few years now!In general all of the DTD vacuum companies should offer the prospect a wider choice!And yes,not all "plastivacs" are the same.The "plastivac" term is used for the really cheap ones-or "dumpster" vacs.And in current Kirby operators manuals they suggest you do not pick up large,heavy,or sharp items so as not to damage the fan.But of course this falls on deaf ears-or eyes-the large number of Kirbys at the vac shop waiting for fan replacement.The items that caused the fan to blow are hung in a plastic bag on the handle-things like nails,coins,Barbie Shoes,Pebbles,.22 shell cases-list goes on.Other direct air vacs wait at the vac shop for fans-Sanitaires and Orecks-older Hoovers.
 
I am a Realtor

And home sizes will NOT be getting smaller same as large SUVs will NEVER go away Americans LOVE large homes SUVs and Kirbys .

Where are you guys getting your home size shrinking statistics ?

When I sell a home people never say oh we are looking for a smaller home it's the opposite they want and need more space in their next (larger) home .

Dan
 
It makes sense. It is going to become very expensive to heat larger homes plus with global warming we need to cut down on energy use. So in future smaller homes will become the norm in my opinion.
 
Not in

America they won't :)

Natural gas is at an all time low we have an over abundance of oil being found here in the US gas prices are falling .

The newest trend is intergenerational families living together that alone requires large homes with plenty of space .

Kirby does not design a machine with out looking into statistics and they know the trends in which to build their machines for .

Dan
 
So they don't care about the future of our planet in America? Maybe they will care when extreme weather conditions become very frequent and your large homes are ripped to shreads :-)
 
REAL customers

Just an hour ago a nice older couple came in my vac shop wanting to sell me a Kirby G-5 as they as did not have even ONE call after putting it on the local radio 'swap shop' at a low price.It came from a mother in law who no longer wanted it.They have had it "in the way" for a year and do not use it as it does not have "on board attachments".They know it will clean well and last forever but do NOT want it because of weight and attachment bother.
Also,I hardly have a Kirby wand left in my store as customers frequently walk in with cracked Generation wands needing replacement.Fragile wands are one of many true facts as stated above by our friend in Germany.
Real customers,real stories.
Rolls Royce-It might be worth noting that if 2 people go in a RR showroom,one wanting a convertible and one wanting a stretch sedan,they are not forced to each take the same and only model.
 
Dan ...

... you are absolutely right about home sizes in America not getting smaller.

The most recent statistics bear that out.

And frankly, with how well-insulated today's homes are (especially the newest windows), along with high-efficiency heating and cooling systems (regardless of the ups and downs of the cost of fuel), you'd have to downsize into a tiny apartment in order to save -- what -- even a hundred bucks a month?

Not going to happen.





http://money.cnn.com/2014/06/04/real_estate/american-home-size/
 
Rex ...

"As it is-larger homes in my area are not selling.The "For Sale" signs in front of them have weeds growing around the signs!Some have been up for sale for a few years now!"

I'm not familiar with your area, but as a real estate investor I can tell you that inability to sell homes has a lot more to do with their location ... marginal schools ... depressed area ... and LACK of size and amenities.

In many neighborhoods, in fact, the opposite is true: the homes that aren't selling are the 1940s-1960s era homes that are three bedrooms or less, fewer than two full bathrooms, with only two (or worse, ONE) car garages. Sadly, these homes that just a generation ago were considered "family" homes are now barely considered "starter" homes, and unfortunately do not fill the bill for how Americans live today.

Even small families (one or two kids) need at least one extra bedroom for the home office/man cave/guest room (since these days most people no longer live in their hometowns and need that extra space for visiting family members).

Two-car garage is mandatory (since most families have at minimum two vehicles), and unless you have space (or the inclination) to build a "shed" in the backyard, you'll need a third garage stall to keep all your lawn and garden equipment, including the snowblower.

And if you have kids, two full baths is absolutely essential anymore ... preferably with at least a powder room near the living area for guests.

The thing is, in terms of NEW homes, thanks to advanced building techniques (in most cases), extra square footage is relatively cheap. Builders of developments today won't even bother with anything under 2,000 square feet anymore.

And forget about those empty nesters looking to "downsize". Developers of the "acive lifestyle" "over-55" communities often START the homes at 2800 square feet, with some of the upscale developments topping out at 4500. Why? Again, it's how we live. Grandma and Grandpa want spare rooms for when the kids and grandkids visit, since most families these days are flung all over the country (if not the world). And developers are wisely planning ahead for the possibility that owners in the future will need plenty of extra space to maneuver wheelchairs and walkers: extra large rooms ... extra wide doors ... spa-sized bathrooms.
 
I don't know how we manage on this side of the pond

Quite easilly.

Until I moved into my current house in April, I'd never had a garage or a utilty room, that includes the house I grew up in with a family of 6. It was never a problem and infact we were lucky to have the space we did.

It's all about what you know and what you're used to.
 

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