super-sweeper
Well-known member
You bet it is!
Kirby
- Thread starter marcusprit
- Start date
Help Support VacuumLand:
When you only are given two choices you either take it or leave it. (Glad we can still do that.) I for one think kirby should offer a "retro" Kirby many liked the dual 50 and 80 for its size. If Kirbyloverdan doesn't need or want one. That doesn't mean the rest of us shouldn't have what we want. He has been pushing for a totally redesigned Kirby. Why we want a machine designed like those of times gone by is becouse of they way it was designed. One that Actually works. Not all the glitz and bells that do nothing to improve its over all performance and or make it any easier to use.
He obviously doesn't read any reveiws about them. The chief bitch about it is how heavy it is. That is after how pushy and obnoxtious the sales teams have become. then of course there is that difficult task of having to convert it to do anything over and above floors.
There are more people out there that you couldn't give a Kirby to no matter how you redesigned it. If Kirby isn't intrested in thier most loyal customers and therefor best salesmen. It will be their loss when we bail on them and find another brand that does what we expect a vacuum cleaner to do. In this day and age people like choices and expect them. If you don't offer a choice other than take it or leave it. People usually do LEAVE IT.
I for one have been a loyal Kirby man all my life. However I won't make any bones about jumping on Kirby's competitors band wagon anytime they offer a better alternitive than the current Kirby being forced down our thoats. I for one haven't traded in my Heritage II for any of the G Series. The G series clean well. I for one don't like the way it handles cornering. amongst other things I'm not fond of about it.
He obviously doesn't read any reveiws about them. The chief bitch about it is how heavy it is. That is after how pushy and obnoxtious the sales teams have become. then of course there is that difficult task of having to convert it to do anything over and above floors.
There are more people out there that you couldn't give a Kirby to no matter how you redesigned it. If Kirby isn't intrested in thier most loyal customers and therefor best salesmen. It will be their loss when we bail on them and find another brand that does what we expect a vacuum cleaner to do. In this day and age people like choices and expect them. If you don't offer a choice other than take it or leave it. People usually do LEAVE IT.
I for one have been a loyal Kirby man all my life. However I won't make any bones about jumping on Kirby's competitors band wagon anytime they offer a better alternitive than the current Kirby being forced down our thoats. I for one haven't traded in my Heritage II for any of the G Series. The G series clean well. I for one don't like the way it handles cornering. amongst other things I'm not fond of about it.
kirbyloverdan
Well-known member
Ummm
The new Kirby will be lighter and more maneuverable all customer complaints will be addressed except the very few collectors wishes of a retro Kirby .
Guess the select few collectors will have to continue to hold on to the past and keep using their old Kirbys .
I am excited to finally have a brand new totally redesigned and improved Kirby just as I was with all the previous generations of Kirby I welcome the change and future of Kirby for many years to come .
I love the new Generation Series from the G3 to the current Sentria II Kirby continually improved year after year . I am a true Kirby enthusiest because I love every machine they have made
Dan
The new Kirby will be lighter and more maneuverable all customer complaints will be addressed except the very few collectors wishes of a retro Kirby .
Guess the select few collectors will have to continue to hold on to the past and keep using their old Kirbys .
I am excited to finally have a brand new totally redesigned and improved Kirby just as I was with all the previous generations of Kirby I welcome the change and future of Kirby for many years to come .
I love the new Generation Series from the G3 to the current Sentria II Kirby continually improved year after year . I am a true Kirby enthusiest because I love every machine they have made
Dan
vac-o-matic
Well-known member
Steve...
I'm right there with you with your thoughts on the G series. I have 18 Kirbys currently, counting a S&F Sanitation system, with my newest being a G3. I had the G3 restored years ago with everything new, including the newer style brushroll and improved flow emtor. I have had newer machines, including an Ultimate G, and recently a Sentria which were sold off. I am not a lover of the G series for the above reasons you listed. When I want to "Kirby" my carpet, I prefer my Heritage or Legend II with the smaller heads and a four row brushroll, easier to use. I have kept the G3 due to it being the first of a series. It's just a personal preference. I'm definitely an equal opportunity collector with over 150 machines at this point, and love all of them for individual reasons. My "training" vacs as child were a 505 and the coral GE canister, so Kirby will always have a place in my heart!
I'm right there with you with your thoughts on the G series. I have 18 Kirbys currently, counting a S&F Sanitation system, with my newest being a G3. I had the G3 restored years ago with everything new, including the newer style brushroll and improved flow emtor. I have had newer machines, including an Ultimate G, and recently a Sentria which were sold off. I am not a lover of the G series for the above reasons you listed. When I want to "Kirby" my carpet, I prefer my Heritage or Legend II with the smaller heads and a four row brushroll, easier to use. I have kept the G3 due to it being the first of a series. It's just a personal preference. I'm definitely an equal opportunity collector with over 150 machines at this point, and love all of them for individual reasons. My "training" vacs as child were a 505 and the coral GE canister, so Kirby will always have a place in my heart!
man114
Well-known member
Kirby in retail stores
I think it was Tom that said a Kirby wouldn't sell in a Wal-Mart or Sears. I'd agree it is too high end for Wal-Mart, but I think they'd sell some in a store like Sears or similar stores which carry a lot of appliances. They probably wouldn't sell a lot, but I believe people would buy them on name recognition.
I kind of wonder what the sales numbers would be.
I think it was Tom that said a Kirby wouldn't sell in a Wal-Mart or Sears. I'd agree it is too high end for Wal-Mart, but I think they'd sell some in a store like Sears or similar stores which carry a lot of appliances. They probably wouldn't sell a lot, but I believe people would buy them on name recognition.
I kind of wonder what the sales numbers would be.
cuffs054
Well-known member
I love my Kirby and would probably buy a newer one, but I just don't want a "talking head" in my house. I wish Kirby would let us buy direct.
super-sweeper
Well-known member
You can, March down to the distributor, throw some cash at the owner, and walk out with your shiny new Kirby!
man114
Well-known member
Innovation
I hope Kirby does it like Rainbow did from D4 to E Series. Sticking to the original basic design but making it more user friendly in terms of attachments and design. I think Rainbow was more aggressive in terms of design, a lot of the stuff coming out of the D series to E series and upgrades of existing attachments were truly useful as opposed to gimmicky. With only minor modifications of the existing nozzle design they could make it more user friendly to use attachments and retain the most common onboard. Pivoted steering would also be very easily implemented. Will they? I hope so.
I hope Kirby does it like Rainbow did from D4 to E Series. Sticking to the original basic design but making it more user friendly in terms of attachments and design. I think Rainbow was more aggressive in terms of design, a lot of the stuff coming out of the D series to E series and upgrades of existing attachments were truly useful as opposed to gimmicky. With only minor modifications of the existing nozzle design they could make it more user friendly to use attachments and retain the most common onboard. Pivoted steering would also be very easily implemented. Will they? I hope so.
rugsucker
Well-known member
Kirby in sears?
How many Hoover Zs did Sears sell?How many Vax vac/carpet washers?Could these have been sold DTD by a salesman who would demo until he got the money?Tom is very right on above DTD sales information.The DTD demo has to -Show the need,Create the desire and Close the sale TODAY.The only way a store will sell a DTD vac is if an active sales force is showing a vac in home but not closing the sale at the high price.A customer may then walk in and buy a same or similar vac if at a lower price.
As a general rule all DTD vacs are quality products that will clean a home if used properly.One difference among companies in the pre Aerus days was that Electrolux offices were company owned and did their own financing.They were more likely to stay in the same city or even same building for years and build up more walk in sales of supplies,service and vacs.
How many Hoover Zs did Sears sell?How many Vax vac/carpet washers?Could these have been sold DTD by a salesman who would demo until he got the money?Tom is very right on above DTD sales information.The DTD demo has to -Show the need,Create the desire and Close the sale TODAY.The only way a store will sell a DTD vac is if an active sales force is showing a vac in home but not closing the sale at the high price.A customer may then walk in and buy a same or similar vac if at a lower price.
As a general rule all DTD vacs are quality products that will clean a home if used properly.One difference among companies in the pre Aerus days was that Electrolux offices were company owned and did their own financing.They were more likely to stay in the same city or even same building for years and build up more walk in sales of supplies,service and vacs.
Kirby? A hate/love relationship
I do not subscribe to the "you haven't got the truth yet, the Kirby is great, Kirby must be doing something right" storyline (which implies that someone is not thinking correctly). It is NOT the consumer or the questionning vacland member that has to rethink things, but Kirby themselves:
There are some points:
The Kirby is great. As a vacuum for carpeted large areas, that is.
Everything that is metal on it is durable.
But then: Kirby cares? Nuh-uh....
They are selling them on killing the current vacs in the homes (see the other post above), they do not bother about customers' needs.
As long as the dollars are ok, they will not bother to improve or update things at all.
I am more than sure that the coming Kirby is a continuation of "how to keep the old stuff selling" (or some other meeting-table discussion result of "how do we move all this stuff to the customer")
I wonder if Mr J. Kirby would have liked this neglectance.
Talking about current Kirbys (the G3 upwards to Sentria series):
Metal parts ok. Yet everything that is plastic on it (and it keeps getting more) is shaky, wobbly. (Look at the upper plastic handle, it gives you a wobbly feeling, it is bending slightly (at least on G series), it is not sturdy enough to keep a straight line to the lower metal part.) Does NOT show quality to me. All back-of-the handle cable clamps or loops breaking all the time, a standard shrugg-it-off item for Kirby Corp.
Design: Outdated, outdated, outdated. (Always some 20 years back compared to now or to compared to what was current or modern back than. Always behind.) Ok, the G-series do look a bit more "Startrooper-like" than the former non-driven models. But even THOSE look like a phonographs in times of an MP3-player, don't they.) Alright, in the beginning (up to WW2) Kirby vacs looked somewhat contemporary because the competion did not look any other - but the clasp between up-to-date and outdated kept expanding from there on more and more.
Tools: Flimsical (best description I could find)
There are tons of other firms that make better tools than this.
Details:
- Caddy box: What a joke! Even the old one was better with its fitted ports. The current one is worse than a collapsible laundry basket as it cannot even hold the hose correcty with this velcro strap. No thinking included: "Everything has its place" say the philosophers. "Some stuff has its place, the rest can be thrown in the big hole in the middle" says Kirby. *Headshakes here*
- Hose: Went from wired spiral and 3-layer to plastic 1-layer (any walmart vac can do that)
- Crevice tool, the radiator brush: "Mickrig" in German (weakish/limp). Not to be taken seriously. Will not even touch lateral radiator parts unless poking it at an angle all along. Compare Miele, Lux, Vorwerk, Siemens, Moulinex, Volta, .... (they all can do better)
- Wall brush: To be thought over: Wired bristle frame keeps falling out all the time. It just unsnaps and falls down. (Had this from the Heritage to current models here).
- Wands: Still plastic, still breakable (other than they announce). Why not have metal and telescopic? And don't come up now with "using the elbow handle" (That can be done using some brains and inventing better stuff than stick-together-tubes). How about some snap joint? Invent!
- Zip brush: Terribly rattling after some years, due to not using roller bearings (just bushings and some plastic framework)= Surely not worth roughly somewhat less than 100,- € (what they take for it here)
- Upholstery nozzle, its snap-on plate: Has no bristles, has no nylon threads lifter pad. Why not?
- Surface/floor nozzle: The most ridiculous "rattle-a-tism" or contraption I have ever seen.
PVC all breakable, a terribly useless brush strip, mini rollers to get clogged, almost no air path calculation done (just a randomly contrived dome to suck things up -> air flow reduced) and so forth. No metal plate, no floor-to-carpet adjustment, no pedal for this (let alone an automatic mechanism), no nothing, just a bunch of recylced plastic. Yet the idea of having an airstream very close the floor is nice. But the actual device is pure junk (to me). So = 1 step though over (floor air stream), all others left out.
And then: The belt lifter mechanism: 3 steps to unattach the front nozzle, then some more to attach the hose. (Go through the Bison story if you want, but that man had it right: The belt lifter IS a nuisance.) A one-click solution would be nowaday's minimum standard. THEY (Kirby) must be thinking, not us.
Imagined example: 1 click (or foot kick) and the nozzle falls off. 1 push (or click) and the hose is on. (Do NOT come up with "yes, but the belt.." = it is Kirby Corp. that has to do the thinking here).
Yet, a Kirby's cleaning results on tuft carpet (a bit less so on bouclé) are outstanding.
On flat surfaces and above the floor the Kirby is average or less than that.
To buy one:
In smaller/smallest appartments with a lot of furniture or with no carpet at all, the Kirby is (as a matter of fact) a wrong investment.
Yet the Kirby Company keeps pushing their salesforce to sell them everywhere (meaning in small(er)(est) habitations, too) but denies having anything to do with these tactics of sales pressure (claiming: It's all the independent dealers, not us).
This is simply a lie.
If they were depending on those "independent" (which those are not at all) dealers, they would rethink the machine design to meet consumers's needs. But they just shove their "requirements" down the throats of the dealers and that is tranported on to the selling staff and into the homes all where the pressure vents in hard sales tactics and grumpy clients.
I BET the new Kirby will NOT be made to meet people's needs, but to "how can we keep our blockheads and move the stuff out to the houses fast" (again) - useless technical or unnecessary double-use solutions included.
I wonder if Mr J. Kirby would have liked this current neglectance.
I do not subscribe to the "you haven't got the truth yet, the Kirby is great, Kirby must be doing something right" storyline (which implies that someone is not thinking correctly). It is NOT the consumer or the questionning vacland member that has to rethink things, but Kirby themselves:
There are some points:
The Kirby is great. As a vacuum for carpeted large areas, that is.
Everything that is metal on it is durable.
But then: Kirby cares? Nuh-uh....
They are selling them on killing the current vacs in the homes (see the other post above), they do not bother about customers' needs.
As long as the dollars are ok, they will not bother to improve or update things at all.
I am more than sure that the coming Kirby is a continuation of "how to keep the old stuff selling" (or some other meeting-table discussion result of "how do we move all this stuff to the customer")
I wonder if Mr J. Kirby would have liked this neglectance.
Talking about current Kirbys (the G3 upwards to Sentria series):
Metal parts ok. Yet everything that is plastic on it (and it keeps getting more) is shaky, wobbly. (Look at the upper plastic handle, it gives you a wobbly feeling, it is bending slightly (at least on G series), it is not sturdy enough to keep a straight line to the lower metal part.) Does NOT show quality to me. All back-of-the handle cable clamps or loops breaking all the time, a standard shrugg-it-off item for Kirby Corp.
Design: Outdated, outdated, outdated. (Always some 20 years back compared to now or to compared to what was current or modern back than. Always behind.) Ok, the G-series do look a bit more "Startrooper-like" than the former non-driven models. But even THOSE look like a phonographs in times of an MP3-player, don't they.) Alright, in the beginning (up to WW2) Kirby vacs looked somewhat contemporary because the competion did not look any other - but the clasp between up-to-date and outdated kept expanding from there on more and more.
Tools: Flimsical (best description I could find)
There are tons of other firms that make better tools than this.
Details:
- Caddy box: What a joke! Even the old one was better with its fitted ports. The current one is worse than a collapsible laundry basket as it cannot even hold the hose correcty with this velcro strap. No thinking included: "Everything has its place" say the philosophers. "Some stuff has its place, the rest can be thrown in the big hole in the middle" says Kirby. *Headshakes here*
- Hose: Went from wired spiral and 3-layer to plastic 1-layer (any walmart vac can do that)
- Crevice tool, the radiator brush: "Mickrig" in German (weakish/limp). Not to be taken seriously. Will not even touch lateral radiator parts unless poking it at an angle all along. Compare Miele, Lux, Vorwerk, Siemens, Moulinex, Volta, .... (they all can do better)
- Wall brush: To be thought over: Wired bristle frame keeps falling out all the time. It just unsnaps and falls down. (Had this from the Heritage to current models here).
- Wands: Still plastic, still breakable (other than they announce). Why not have metal and telescopic? And don't come up now with "using the elbow handle" (That can be done using some brains and inventing better stuff than stick-together-tubes). How about some snap joint? Invent!
- Zip brush: Terribly rattling after some years, due to not using roller bearings (just bushings and some plastic framework)= Surely not worth roughly somewhat less than 100,- € (what they take for it here)
- Upholstery nozzle, its snap-on plate: Has no bristles, has no nylon threads lifter pad. Why not?
- Surface/floor nozzle: The most ridiculous "rattle-a-tism" or contraption I have ever seen.
PVC all breakable, a terribly useless brush strip, mini rollers to get clogged, almost no air path calculation done (just a randomly contrived dome to suck things up -> air flow reduced) and so forth. No metal plate, no floor-to-carpet adjustment, no pedal for this (let alone an automatic mechanism), no nothing, just a bunch of recylced plastic. Yet the idea of having an airstream very close the floor is nice. But the actual device is pure junk (to me). So = 1 step though over (floor air stream), all others left out.
And then: The belt lifter mechanism: 3 steps to unattach the front nozzle, then some more to attach the hose. (Go through the Bison story if you want, but that man had it right: The belt lifter IS a nuisance.) A one-click solution would be nowaday's minimum standard. THEY (Kirby) must be thinking, not us.
Imagined example: 1 click (or foot kick) and the nozzle falls off. 1 push (or click) and the hose is on. (Do NOT come up with "yes, but the belt.." = it is Kirby Corp. that has to do the thinking here).
Yet, a Kirby's cleaning results on tuft carpet (a bit less so on bouclé) are outstanding.
On flat surfaces and above the floor the Kirby is average or less than that.
To buy one:
In smaller/smallest appartments with a lot of furniture or with no carpet at all, the Kirby is (as a matter of fact) a wrong investment.
Yet the Kirby Company keeps pushing their salesforce to sell them everywhere (meaning in small(er)(est) habitations, too) but denies having anything to do with these tactics of sales pressure (claiming: It's all the independent dealers, not us).
This is simply a lie.
If they were depending on those "independent" (which those are not at all) dealers, they would rethink the machine design to meet consumers's needs. But they just shove their "requirements" down the throats of the dealers and that is tranported on to the selling staff and into the homes all where the pressure vents in hard sales tactics and grumpy clients.
I BET the new Kirby will NOT be made to meet people's needs, but to "how can we keep our blockheads and move the stuff out to the houses fast" (again) - useless technical or unnecessary double-use solutions included.
I wonder if Mr J. Kirby would have liked this current neglectance.
kirbyloverdan
Well-known member
Thanks for your
Thoughts Joe but you are 100% wrong about Kirby all I have to say is come this weekend eat your words because this new Kirby will shock you and many others .
The future of Kirby arrives very soon TOATALLY redesigned .
I also disagree about every thing you wrote about a Kirby being flimsy oh and about Bison and they're
beltlifterless nozzle most every single one has broken and those who own a Bison that haven't broken do not use the machines as a daily vacuum .
Also where is Bison today ? Oh didn't they go out of business ???
Dan
Thoughts Joe but you are 100% wrong about Kirby all I have to say is come this weekend eat your words because this new Kirby will shock you and many others .
The future of Kirby arrives very soon TOATALLY redesigned .
I also disagree about every thing you wrote about a Kirby being flimsy oh and about Bison and they're
beltlifterless nozzle most every single one has broken and those who own a Bison that haven't broken do not use the machines as a daily vacuum .
Also where is Bison today ? Oh didn't they go out of business ???
Dan
jaker15
Well-known member
Ouch.
That was an unnecessarily snippy reply, kirbyloverdan. Everyone is entitled to their opinions, and you don't need to attack someone who is expressing theirs. I don't care for the G Series whatsoever, I find them over-complicated, loud, and heavy as hell. I would take a Heritage II-Legend over a G series any day.
That was an unnecessarily snippy reply, kirbyloverdan. Everyone is entitled to their opinions, and you don't need to attack someone who is expressing theirs. I don't care for the G Series whatsoever, I find them over-complicated, loud, and heavy as hell. I would take a Heritage II-Legend over a G series any day.
kirbyloverdan
Well-known member
It's not an
Attack its facts .
It's ok for him to completely degrade Kirby ?
I hate certain vacuums but NEVER say nasty things about them !!!
Dan
Attack its facts .
It's ok for him to completely degrade Kirby ?
I hate certain vacuums but NEVER say nasty things about them !!!
Dan
sebo_fan
Well-known member
There you go again Jaker, telling off another established and well contributed member of this forum. You did it with me and yet again you're off again at someone else. Keep your thoughts to yourself.
man114
Well-known member
I think
We should wait and see what this thing brings. I'm not a Kirby lover by any stretch but still own several. I'm curious to see what they come up with. You're going to get one of two things, a recolor scheme version of the Sentria or an actual redesign. I really really really (can't stress that enough) hope they take an approach like Rainbow did switching to the E Series. Sure they are making a lot of money selling virtually the same machine year after year and it does clean well, but if you look at the current Rainbow it actually seems high tech despite using a lot from a very old design, and has updated a lot of stuff to fit current trends. It has genuinely useful, easy to use attachments. I can pull out my Kirby Classic III and it isn't drastically different than the more current models. A Rainbow in contrast looks like an antique in comparison. Even my most current Kirby, a G6, isn't that much different. I hope Kirby does this justice and makes something truly awesome.
We should wait and see what this thing brings. I'm not a Kirby lover by any stretch but still own several. I'm curious to see what they come up with. You're going to get one of two things, a recolor scheme version of the Sentria or an actual redesign. I really really really (can't stress that enough) hope they take an approach like Rainbow did switching to the E Series. Sure they are making a lot of money selling virtually the same machine year after year and it does clean well, but if you look at the current Rainbow it actually seems high tech despite using a lot from a very old design, and has updated a lot of stuff to fit current trends. It has genuinely useful, easy to use attachments. I can pull out my Kirby Classic III and it isn't drastically different than the more current models. A Rainbow in contrast looks like an antique in comparison. Even my most current Kirby, a G6, isn't that much different. I hope Kirby does this justice and makes something truly awesome.
I can see
Both sides of the coin.....even though I hate ALL new machines!LOL, A Kirby is a reliable, well built cleaner that does a wonderful job.....in a big open house, My partner Donald calls them a boat anchor, I dont go that far, but I do wish they made the option of a narrow head, they have been way too wide since the Classic was introduced....but then, if it was up to me, a self defrosting refrigerator would be outlawed and all cars would have fins and pushbuttons...so im no judge of what anyone wants today, personally I wouldnt trade a Compact or an Electrolux for every upright ever made.
Both sides of the coin.....even though I hate ALL new machines!LOL, A Kirby is a reliable, well built cleaner that does a wonderful job.....in a big open house, My partner Donald calls them a boat anchor, I dont go that far, but I do wish they made the option of a narrow head, they have been way too wide since the Classic was introduced....but then, if it was up to me, a self defrosting refrigerator would be outlawed and all cars would have fins and pushbuttons...so im no judge of what anyone wants today, personally I wouldnt trade a Compact or an Electrolux for every upright ever made.
nycwriter
Well-known member
Um ... not entirely accurate ...
"They buy one because someone shows up at their door, talks their way inside, and makes them UNHAPPY with their Current vacuum."
I know two Kirby salesmen in the New York area and they most certainly do NOT blindly go door-to-door.
Believe it or not, people DO wake up one day, realize they're tired of spending good money on disposable plastivac screaming nightmares, do their homework, and pro-actively contact Kirby for a demonstration after they've pretty much already made up their minds to buy a quality vacuum.
"They buy one because someone shows up at their door, talks their way inside, and makes them UNHAPPY with their Current vacuum."
I know two Kirby salesmen in the New York area and they most certainly do NOT blindly go door-to-door.
Believe it or not, people DO wake up one day, realize they're tired of spending good money on disposable plastivac screaming nightmares, do their homework, and pro-actively contact Kirby for a demonstration after they've pretty much already made up their minds to buy a quality vacuum.
nycwriter
Well-known member
Why no "compact" Kirby?
You could ask why Rolls Royce doesn't make a "compact" car: because they just DON'T. Either you want the Rolls Royce of vacuums, or you don't. It's neither good nor bad, it's simply about what you want and what you're willing to pay for. And for Kirby, it's about sticking with a business model that has consistently served them well for decades.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it!
(For the record, I will concede that I went out of my way to purchase a beautifully restored Dual Sanitronic 80, which has the narrower 13" brushroll, as opposed to the 16" brushroll the company has been using on all post-1970 models. In smaller spaces, those 3 fewer inches of width make a huge difference in maneuverability. However, that being said, the "footprint" of my vintage Kirby is no bigger than a Dyson or most other modern "plastivacs".)
You could ask why Rolls Royce doesn't make a "compact" car: because they just DON'T. Either you want the Rolls Royce of vacuums, or you don't. It's neither good nor bad, it's simply about what you want and what you're willing to pay for. And for Kirby, it's about sticking with a business model that has consistently served them well for decades.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it!
(For the record, I will concede that I went out of my way to purchase a beautifully restored Dual Sanitronic 80, which has the narrower 13" brushroll, as opposed to the 16" brushroll the company has been using on all post-1970 models. In smaller spaces, those 3 fewer inches of width make a huge difference in maneuverability. However, that being said, the "footprint" of my vintage Kirby is no bigger than a Dyson or most other modern "plastivacs".)
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