Kirby vs Metal Royal

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Great....

thread! So much more interesting to have real CFM measurements. I just bought a Royal 880 to restore. I will never buy a Kirby for petty personal reasons...that have to do with Kirby people in the past and not so much about the machine, although it's heavier than anything I want in an upright.


 


If the 880 can at least vacuum better than the Hoover upright I had in college (and really liked) then I'm set. I've mourned the loss of that Hoover ever since I got into Elux canister collecting. There's just something about pushing and pulling a good upright versus dragging around a canister & PN.


 


Kevin
 
my Royal will self propel on some surfaces too, if set right. But they are a lot lighter and the wheels are very wide so they don't sink in, roll very easy
 
Will be interesting to see the results Bill if you get a Royal.

I do like the fact that the Royal is about 5 lbs lighter than my Kirby and the floorhead is narrower
Wish they copied Kirby and exported them. Why just sell them in North America?
 
 <a name="start_34018.369083"></a>my Royal will self propel on some surfaces too, if set right. But they are a lot lighter and the wheels are very wide so they don't sink in, roll very easy



 


Makes sense. I have the smaller amp motor in my 1975 880. Almost immediately, I got 'amp envy' after reading about the more powerful motors that came later.  But, we'll see how she does when I finish restoring her. Like I said, if she aces the old Hoover, I'm set....lol.


 


Like the discussion about Royals in another thread....I don't understand why they didn't go with polyurethane type wheels like skateboards did in the early 70's, instead of those dreadful, Bakelite type wheels they used for so long. If it's possible to find, I'm going to put skateboard wheels on the 880 of the same width and height. I've seen some longboards with very similar sized wheels and some graphics on the wheels would only add to the fun.


 


Kevin
 
I modifiedd one of my 1028 Royal commercials to use a Kirby F-Fit bag tube and horn.Using the Ultimate Filtration Kirby Filtrte bags in thagt Royal now.There is a difference in the Royal-had to Raise the nozzle all the way up on the Rite Height dial.The machine p[ick up without any hesitation as wioth the older Royal paper bags and feed tube.The Royal tube was constricing the 10A Royal airflow.I have some Baird guages in my Kirby saleskits-but don't haved the holse adaptor handy for the Royal.I use the Kirby and Royal in upright modes only./i have other canister cleaners that I use-esp the MD cengtral vacuums.Will use my modified Royal some more.Like the Kirb y conversion.The KMirby bags are easier to get.
 
Royal wheels...

Kevin,


 


Royal wheels are not made of Bakelite. They are made of the same material as Bowling balls are so as not to scratch wooden flooring. The material is like a very hard rubber that has a little bit of give to it.


 


The wheels are very wide so the Royal does not sink into the carpet. When I push it with the motor off, it feels almost like it's gliding on air. It is so much easier to push than my Sentria. It kind of feels like my D50 only with 3 times the power.


 


I don't care how you compare it to Kirby measurements, the proof is in the pudding. The Royal cleans carpet as well or better than Kirby!


 


 
 
Stan...

it was stated recently on a Royal thread that they were Bakelite-isk wheels. Another member said that he had a Royal locked in a car with closed window(for storage) over the hot summer....and that the wheels themselves literally disintegrated from that hostile environ. I just question the use of wheel material given that urethane wheels are virtually indestructible and relatively inexpensive.


 


Kevin 
 
Great to know, thanks! And indeed what bowling balls are made of.....hoping to find a urethane wheel similar in diameter & width, with pressed in ball bearing that will fit the Royal shaft. 


 


Kevin
 
Stan that is because the Kirby is dealing to the carpet there is very little air being pulled in from outside of the floorhead. The royal doesn't make as tight a seal so more air is being sucked in from outside the nozzle that is why it wins this test
 
Even.....

on a hardwood floor, wouldn't the height adjustment have something to do with the tug-o'-war? I don't think that makes a fair comparison of the two machines.


 


Kevin
 
Stan,

You're probably right in this instance. A 10 year old Diamond with 120 CFM up against a current model Royal. BUT, try that same test with a 137 CFM Sentria II or Avalir and see what happens...

And that's only an approximate test of "bare floor paper towel tube airflow" not sealed to the carpet airflow. Remember, vacuumcleanermuseum's channel shows that the Avalir has slightly more airflow through the hose, so it probably comes down to what kind a seal both machines have with the carpet.

Royal 8300 Hose Airflow


Kirby Avalir Hose Airflow


I just tested my G5 (125 CFM at the nozzle) and it picks up the edge of my medium pile test carpet (5'x7') four inches off the floor with the brush roll spinning and six inches off the floor with the brush roll off.

Now I'm really looking forward to grabbing a 10 Amp Royal. :)

Bill
 
In that video it looks MUCH older, look at the emptor. Also we have to remember the Kirby is running on low speed for floors, Royal I am pretty sure is fixed speed.
 
So that video shows the Kirby has slightly more airflow than the royal and the Sentria 2 has slightly more airflow than the Diamond.

Just looked at the royal website. The Metal Royal gets a CRI "silver award" They must have used a HEPA bag so it's comes down to carpet pick up. The Kirby gets a "Gold award" and as you said previously Stan they might go up to a platinum award which would put the Kirby even further ahead.
 
Only 2 canisters

I have ever seen that would pull the Baird indicator as far as it would go, The Sunbeam Dual Deluxe and the Apex Strato Cleaner.
 
Marcus,


 


Your Reply #39 makes no sense. Both machines are on hard floor not carpet. This test is for pure airflow without any carpet involved. It shows that the Royal moves more air period.


 


And as far as CRI tests go, the Royal got a Silver rating not because of cleaning ability, but because filtration was not as good as Kirby. The reason is that at the time of testing the Royal had a paper bag installed in it because the Royal cloth HEPA bags were not yet available at the time. The paper bag was the reason for the Silver rating. I read this somewhere online, but I don't remember where I read it.


 


Kevin,


If you expand that video in Reply #38 to full screen and look closely, you will see that both machines are at the same height. The distance between the nozzles and the floor is the same. Again, it clearly shows that The Royal moves more air.


 


Bill,


 


In your Reply 42, it looks to me that the Royal had a paper bag installed which may be why the Avalir won by a half of a point on the Baird. The Royal cloth HEPA bags are not only hard to find they are also expensive for a 2 pack of bags - about $15.00 for 2 bags.


 


Here is another airflow test this time a Sentria II with 7 amp motor and 11 blade fan against an early 90's Royal with 6 amp motor and 6 blade fan. As you can see the older Royal holds it's own against the newer more powerful Kirby:


 





 


 
 
Oh well if it has more airflow than the Kirby then good for Royal.
The Kirby cleans well enough for me.

If royal did decide to export I'd buy one but they haven't in about 100 years so I doubt they ever will 😣 Silly really cause they cud increase their profits!
 
 


Marcus,


 


 I'm guessing but Royal / TTI probably does not want to export because of the cost of starting a separate production line with 220 volt motors and different cords and plugs. There's also the fact that Europe and UK prefer canister vacuums over uprights.


 


This has no bearing on the above, but Royal production has moved from China back to the USA. Production is now located in Louisiana at the old Oreck factory.


 


 


 


 
 
Don't royal have a commercial cleaner that has a gold award? I don't think that had a HEPA bag fitted did it?
Hmmmm are the CRI tests to be trusted?

Kirby and Royal do not filter the carbon dust from the motor so how they would pass a filtration test I don't know.

The Sebo X4 has a good pre motor filter but because the post motor filter is just a foam pad carbon dust escapes and it gets an F rating in the EU which is poor.
 
 


Yes, CRI does test every cleaner for filtration of  bags and filters. Carbon emissions are not tested because they are not only a very miniscule amount, but carbon is not allergenic like dust is. People are not allergic to carbon because, other than water, your body is made up of mostly carbon.


 


If you ask me your government vacuum tests are ridiculous. They seem to be non standard because the manufactures are allowed to do their own testing.
 
The cleaner is put inside a sealed container. Anything that comes out of the cleaner whether it's house dust or carbon dust from the motor will show up on the test as the Sebo X4 does.

I spoke to the MD of Kirby UK. He told me there are 4 designated testing sites and when the test is done the manufacturer is not allowed to be present.

He told me they sent a Kirby to be tested but they weren't happy with the results. He said they couldn't have set the Kirby up correctly because the results were worse than a Sebo. He said that's crazy because a Kirby comes nowhere near and they pulled out of the test.
 
The point i'm trying to make here is for instance a Miele has a post motor HEPA filter so when this cleaner is put inside the sealed testing unit nothing will come out of the cleaner and in the EU it gets an A rating for filtration.

The Sebo X4 has an S Class pre motor filter which is very good but when this cleaner is put in the sealed unit carbon dust is escaping from the motor and these particles will register in the test so the Sebo gets an F rating. It's not household dust escaping it's carbon dust.

If the Kirby or Royal were placed into the sealed container they would also get an F rating for filtration for the same reason as the Sebo so how did the CRI give it a gold award for filtration?
 
All,

Please take a look at my toilet paper roll test and conclusions. Because the roll is VERY light, it is also very sensitive. This is bad because just a few CFM difference can make the roll stick to the winner's vacuum. I have proven a 4 CFM difference is all you need to "win" this challenge. When I have time, I will see if a piddley 2 CFM difference is all you need to win. Considering we're talking about CFM's in the 140 range, just 2 CFM wouldn't amount to very much.

Bill

http://www.vacuumland.org/cgi-bin/TD/TD-VIEWTHREAD.cgi?34082_0
 

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