Stan that is because the Kirby is dealing to the carpet there is very little air being pulled in from outside of the floorhead. The royal doesn't make as tight a seal so more air is being sucked in from outside the nozzle that is why it wins this test
Kirby vs Metal Royal
- Thread starter sebo4me
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real1shep
Well-known member
Even.....
on a hardwood floor, wouldn't the height adjustment have something to do with the tug-o'-war? I don't think that makes a fair comparison of the two machines.
Kevin
on a hardwood floor, wouldn't the height adjustment have something to do with the tug-o'-war? I don't think that makes a fair comparison of the two machines.
Kevin
wyaple
Well-known member
Stan,
You're probably right in this instance. A 10 year old Diamond with 120 CFM up against a current model Royal. BUT, try that same test with a 137 CFM Sentria II or Avalir and see what happens...
And that's only an approximate test of "bare floor paper towel tube airflow" not sealed to the carpet airflow. Remember, vacuumcleanermuseum's channel shows that the Avalir has slightly more airflow through the hose, so it probably comes down to what kind a seal both machines have with the carpet.
Royal 8300 Hose Airflow
Kirby Avalir Hose Airflow
I just tested my G5 (125 CFM at the nozzle) and it picks up the edge of my medium pile test carpet (5'x7') four inches off the floor with the brush roll spinning and six inches off the floor with the brush roll off.
Now I'm really looking forward to grabbing a 10 Amp Royal.
Bill
You're probably right in this instance. A 10 year old Diamond with 120 CFM up against a current model Royal. BUT, try that same test with a 137 CFM Sentria II or Avalir and see what happens...
And that's only an approximate test of "bare floor paper towel tube airflow" not sealed to the carpet airflow. Remember, vacuumcleanermuseum's channel shows that the Avalir has slightly more airflow through the hose, so it probably comes down to what kind a seal both machines have with the carpet.
Royal 8300 Hose Airflow
Kirby Avalir Hose Airflow
I just tested my G5 (125 CFM at the nozzle) and it picks up the edge of my medium pile test carpet (5'x7') four inches off the floor with the brush roll spinning and six inches off the floor with the brush roll off.
Now I'm really looking forward to grabbing a 10 Amp Royal.
Bill
suckolux
Well-known member
That is not a Diamond
wyaple
Well-known member
David,
Let's see, the Diamond handle and a Diamond bag...doesn't that mean it's an Ultimate G Diamond? Am I losing it?
Bill
Let's see, the Diamond handle and a Diamond bag...doesn't that mean it's an Ultimate G Diamond? Am I losing it?
Bill
suckolux
Well-known member
In that video it looks MUCH older, look at the emptor. Also we have to remember the Kirby is running on low speed for floors, Royal I am pretty sure is fixed speed.
suckolux
Well-known member
My mistake, I did not run the video, just the still there I saw
So that video shows the Kirby has slightly more airflow than the royal and the Sentria 2 has slightly more airflow than the Diamond.
Just looked at the royal website. The Metal Royal gets a CRI "silver award" They must have used a HEPA bag so it's comes down to carpet pick up. The Kirby gets a "Gold award" and as you said previously Stan they might go up to a platinum award which would put the Kirby even further ahead.
Just looked at the royal website. The Metal Royal gets a CRI "silver award" They must have used a HEPA bag so it's comes down to carpet pick up. The Kirby gets a "Gold award" and as you said previously Stan they might go up to a platinum award which would put the Kirby even further ahead.
sptyks
Well-known member
Marcus,
Your Reply #39 makes no sense. Both machines are on hard floor not carpet. This test is for pure airflow without any carpet involved. It shows that the Royal moves more air period.
And as far as CRI tests go, the Royal got a Silver rating not because of cleaning ability, but because filtration was not as good as Kirby. The reason is that at the time of testing the Royal had a paper bag installed in it because the Royal cloth HEPA bags were not yet available at the time. The paper bag was the reason for the Silver rating. I read this somewhere online, but I don't remember where I read it.
Kevin,
If you expand that video in Reply #38 to full screen and look closely, you will see that both machines are at the same height. The distance between the nozzles and the floor is the same. Again, it clearly shows that The Royal moves more air.
Bill,
In your Reply 42, it looks to me that the Royal had a paper bag installed which may be why the Avalir won by a half of a point on the Baird. The Royal cloth HEPA bags are not only hard to find they are also expensive for a 2 pack of bags - about $15.00 for 2 bags.
Here is another airflow test this time a Sentria II with 7 amp motor and 11 blade fan against an early 90's Royal with 6 amp motor and 6 blade fan. As you can see the older Royal holds it's own against the newer more powerful Kirby:
Your Reply #39 makes no sense. Both machines are on hard floor not carpet. This test is for pure airflow without any carpet involved. It shows that the Royal moves more air period.
And as far as CRI tests go, the Royal got a Silver rating not because of cleaning ability, but because filtration was not as good as Kirby. The reason is that at the time of testing the Royal had a paper bag installed in it because the Royal cloth HEPA bags were not yet available at the time. The paper bag was the reason for the Silver rating. I read this somewhere online, but I don't remember where I read it.
Kevin,
If you expand that video in Reply #38 to full screen and look closely, you will see that both machines are at the same height. The distance between the nozzles and the floor is the same. Again, it clearly shows that The Royal moves more air.
Bill,
In your Reply 42, it looks to me that the Royal had a paper bag installed which may be why the Avalir won by a half of a point on the Baird. The Royal cloth HEPA bags are not only hard to find they are also expensive for a 2 pack of bags - about $15.00 for 2 bags.
Here is another airflow test this time a Sentria II with 7 amp motor and 11 blade fan against an early 90's Royal with 6 amp motor and 6 blade fan. As you can see the older Royal holds it's own against the newer more powerful Kirby:
Oh well if it has more airflow than the Kirby then good for Royal.
The Kirby cleans well enough for me.
If royal did decide to export I'd buy one but they haven't in about 100 years so I doubt they ever will
Silly really cause they cud increase their profits!
The Kirby cleans well enough for me.
If royal did decide to export I'd buy one but they haven't in about 100 years so I doubt they ever will
Silly really cause they cud increase their profits!
sptyks
Well-known member
Marcus,
I'm guessing but Royal / TTI probably does not want to export because of the cost of starting a separate production line with 220 volt motors and different cords and plugs. There's also the fact that Europe and UK prefer canister vacuums over uprights.
This has no bearing on the above, but Royal production has moved from China back to the USA. Production is now located in Louisiana at the old Oreck factory.
Don't royal have a commercial cleaner that has a gold award? I don't think that had a HEPA bag fitted did it?
Hmmmm are the CRI tests to be trusted?
Kirby and Royal do not filter the carbon dust from the motor so how they would pass a filtration test I don't know.
The Sebo X4 has a good pre motor filter but because the post motor filter is just a foam pad carbon dust escapes and it gets an F rating in the EU which is poor.
Hmmmm are the CRI tests to be trusted?
Kirby and Royal do not filter the carbon dust from the motor so how they would pass a filtration test I don't know.
The Sebo X4 has a good pre motor filter but because the post motor filter is just a foam pad carbon dust escapes and it gets an F rating in the EU which is poor.
panasonicvac
Well-known member
Wasn't the Pro-Series model going to be discontinued anytime soon?
sptyks
Well-known member
Yes, CRI does test every cleaner for filtration of bags and filters. Carbon emissions are not tested because they are not only a very miniscule amount, but carbon is not allergenic like dust is. People are not allergic to carbon because, other than water, your body is made up of mostly carbon.
If you ask me your government vacuum tests are ridiculous. They seem to be non standard because the manufactures are allowed to do their own testing.
The cleaner is put inside a sealed container. Anything that comes out of the cleaner whether it's house dust or carbon dust from the motor will show up on the test as the Sebo X4 does.
I spoke to the MD of Kirby UK. He told me there are 4 designated testing sites and when the test is done the manufacturer is not allowed to be present.
He told me they sent a Kirby to be tested but they weren't happy with the results. He said they couldn't have set the Kirby up correctly because the results were worse than a Sebo. He said that's crazy because a Kirby comes nowhere near and they pulled out of the test.
I spoke to the MD of Kirby UK. He told me there are 4 designated testing sites and when the test is done the manufacturer is not allowed to be present.
He told me they sent a Kirby to be tested but they weren't happy with the results. He said they couldn't have set the Kirby up correctly because the results were worse than a Sebo. He said that's crazy because a Kirby comes nowhere near and they pulled out of the test.
The point i'm trying to make here is for instance a Miele has a post motor HEPA filter so when this cleaner is put inside the sealed testing unit nothing will come out of the cleaner and in the EU it gets an A rating for filtration.
The Sebo X4 has an S Class pre motor filter which is very good but when this cleaner is put in the sealed unit carbon dust is escaping from the motor and these particles will register in the test so the Sebo gets an F rating. It's not household dust escaping it's carbon dust.
If the Kirby or Royal were placed into the sealed container they would also get an F rating for filtration for the same reason as the Sebo so how did the CRI give it a gold award for filtration?
The Sebo X4 has an S Class pre motor filter which is very good but when this cleaner is put in the sealed unit carbon dust is escaping from the motor and these particles will register in the test so the Sebo gets an F rating. It's not household dust escaping it's carbon dust.
If the Kirby or Royal were placed into the sealed container they would also get an F rating for filtration for the same reason as the Sebo so how did the CRI give it a gold award for filtration?
wyaple
Well-known member
All,
Please take a look at my toilet paper roll test and conclusions. Because the roll is VERY light, it is also very sensitive. This is bad because just a few CFM difference can make the roll stick to the winner's vacuum. I have proven a 4 CFM difference is all you need to "win" this challenge. When I have time, I will see if a piddley 2 CFM difference is all you need to win. Considering we're talking about CFM's in the 140 range, just 2 CFM wouldn't amount to very much.
Bill
http://www.vacuumland.org/cgi-bin/TD/TD-VIEWTHREAD.cgi?34082_0
Please take a look at my toilet paper roll test and conclusions. Because the roll is VERY light, it is also very sensitive. This is bad because just a few CFM difference can make the roll stick to the winner's vacuum. I have proven a 4 CFM difference is all you need to "win" this challenge. When I have time, I will see if a piddley 2 CFM difference is all you need to win. Considering we're talking about CFM's in the 140 range, just 2 CFM wouldn't amount to very much.
Bill
http://www.vacuumland.org/cgi-bin/TD/TD-VIEWTHREAD.cgi?34082_0
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