Kirby vs Metal Royal
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wyaple
Well-known member
Mark,
Yes, when you're talking about triple digit nozzle CFM, you are automatically in a class that sets itself apart from everyone else! No Dyson or Rainbow can do that.
Bill
Yes, when you're talking about triple digit nozzle CFM, you are automatically in a class that sets itself apart from everyone else! No Dyson or Rainbow can do that.
Bill
wyaple
Well-known member
Yes, you are correct
I have 4 different types (grades) of Kirby brush rolls and they change the forward bias of the machine slightly. With the stiffest one (152505), you can definitely tell the nozzle rises up very, very slightly and wants to move forward more easily. Of course, no Kirby brush roll makes the machine move by itself...
With the oblique softer bristles (152502), my Sentria II gets noticeably quieter and the very slight forward rise and pull mostly go away. It pulls up less carpet fibers too.
Bill
I have 4 different types (grades) of Kirby brush rolls and they change the forward bias of the machine slightly. With the stiffest one (152505), you can definitely tell the nozzle rises up very, very slightly and wants to move forward more easily. Of course, no Kirby brush roll makes the machine move by itself...
With the oblique softer bristles (152502), my Sentria II gets noticeably quieter and the very slight forward rise and pull mostly go away. It pulls up less carpet fibers too.
Bill
sptyks
Well-known member
First off, The Royal is significantly lighter than Kirby G series machines.
Second, If the Adjust-O-Rite button sucks in, there must be some type of seal going on, otherwise the button wouldn't move. This button is connected to a metal diaphragm inside the AOR cap. There needs to be some type of seal in order for there to be enough vacuum to move the diaphragm 1/2 inch.
Third, Bill how are you adjusting the height of the Sentria nozzle? Are you going the one click after the brushes contact the carpet, or are you going lower? In order for my Sentria to suck down to the carpet so tight that it is very hard to move, I need to go two clicks past the brushes making contact for it to be difficult to move.
Lastly, You NEED to try a 10amp Royal in order to experience what a powerful machine it truly is. I tried removing the belt from the motor shaft. When I did that the Royal was very difficult to move. After putting the belt back on I performed the following agitation test: I sprinkled a handful of oatmeal on the carpet then I slowly approached the oatmeal with both machines, When I did that with the Sentria the oatmeal started bouncing around when the nozzle was about 3 inches away. When I approached the oatmeal with my Royal it started to bounce around when the nozzle was 10-12 inches away. There are videos on YouTube that demonstrate this. That's where I got the idea to see if my Royal could do this and it does.
Final thought: What this really all boils down to is not how much of a seal each machine has, but which machine is the better carpet cleaner! Bill, I hope you can get our hands on a 10 amp Royal so you can do measurements and .get to experience it for yourself.
Second, If the Adjust-O-Rite button sucks in, there must be some type of seal going on, otherwise the button wouldn't move. This button is connected to a metal diaphragm inside the AOR cap. There needs to be some type of seal in order for there to be enough vacuum to move the diaphragm 1/2 inch.
Third, Bill how are you adjusting the height of the Sentria nozzle? Are you going the one click after the brushes contact the carpet, or are you going lower? In order for my Sentria to suck down to the carpet so tight that it is very hard to move, I need to go two clicks past the brushes making contact for it to be difficult to move.
Lastly, You NEED to try a 10amp Royal in order to experience what a powerful machine it truly is. I tried removing the belt from the motor shaft. When I did that the Royal was very difficult to move. After putting the belt back on I performed the following agitation test: I sprinkled a handful of oatmeal on the carpet then I slowly approached the oatmeal with both machines, When I did that with the Sentria the oatmeal started bouncing around when the nozzle was about 3 inches away. When I approached the oatmeal with my Royal it started to bounce around when the nozzle was 10-12 inches away. There are videos on YouTube that demonstrate this. That's where I got the idea to see if my Royal could do this and it does.
Final thought: What this really all boils down to is not how much of a seal each machine has, but which machine is the better carpet cleaner! Bill, I hope you can get our hands on a 10 amp Royal so you can do measurements and .get to experience it for yourself.
wyaple
Well-known member
Stan,
I'd love to get my hands on a newer Royal...haven't seen any around my neck of the woods in years though, but I'm always on the lookout!
And I adjust all my Kirbys exactly as the factory recommends them.
That's a lot of agitation from your Royal. Bouncing a whole foot away is tremendous! BUT, I'm not very impressed in how well surface litter is picked up, only how deep ground in sand and dust can be picked up from the very bottom of the carpet. I've tested all my machines and the Sentria II has so much airflow that flour sprinkled UNDER the carpet (brand new Mohawk medium pile) gets sucked right up in a couple of passes.
You know, it's too bad that 99% of the world won't know or care about high CFM machines. The vast majority seem relatively happy with their 80" water lift, 70 CFM sub-$100 plastic bag less vacs.
Bill
I'd love to get my hands on a newer Royal...haven't seen any around my neck of the woods in years though, but I'm always on the lookout!
And I adjust all my Kirbys exactly as the factory recommends them.
That's a lot of agitation from your Royal. Bouncing a whole foot away is tremendous! BUT, I'm not very impressed in how well surface litter is picked up, only how deep ground in sand and dust can be picked up from the very bottom of the carpet. I've tested all my machines and the Sentria II has so much airflow that flour sprinkled UNDER the carpet (brand new Mohawk medium pile) gets sucked right up in a couple of passes.
You know, it's too bad that 99% of the world won't know or care about high CFM machines. The vast majority seem relatively happy with their 80" water lift, 70 CFM sub-$100 plastic bag less vacs.
Bill
The beater bar action of the brushroll stiffeners prevent the royal from making a tight seal to the carpet. The cleaner will move forward on its own that proves it's not making a tight seal. It's has better agitation but because the Kirby has a better seal at the floorhead it will suck in more dirt.
wyaple
Well-known member
Royal Everlast 8300 10 Amp Efficiency
I have seen on YouTube (vacuumcleanermuseum's channel) that the 8300 pulls about the same on a Baird meter as an Avalir (my Sentria II matches these figures). The tester should have stretched the hoses out straight but at least they were wound around approximately the same.
One concern I have is airflow efficiency from the Royal. Even though it may have similar airflow to a Kirby, the Royal is massively more inefficient.
Example:
Sentria II (hose mode) = 6.74 Amps @ 120 Volts = 809 Watts
Everlast 8300 (hose mode) = 10 Amps @ 120 Volts = 1200 Watts
That's about 400 Watts more (48% more) needed to produce the same airflow. I'm surmising that the Royal has a much less efficient motor/fan setup than the Kirby does.
I still want one because they are very cool machines! When I get one, I'll be sure to post the full tests and add it to my growing database.
Bill
I have seen on YouTube (vacuumcleanermuseum's channel) that the 8300 pulls about the same on a Baird meter as an Avalir (my Sentria II matches these figures). The tester should have stretched the hoses out straight but at least they were wound around approximately the same.
One concern I have is airflow efficiency from the Royal. Even though it may have similar airflow to a Kirby, the Royal is massively more inefficient.
Example:
Sentria II (hose mode) = 6.74 Amps @ 120 Volts = 809 Watts
Everlast 8300 (hose mode) = 10 Amps @ 120 Volts = 1200 Watts
That's about 400 Watts more (48% more) needed to produce the same airflow. I'm surmising that the Royal has a much less efficient motor/fan setup than the Kirby does.
I still want one because they are very cool machines! When I get one, I'll be sure to post the full tests and add it to my growing database.
Bill
suckolux
Well-known member
Perhaps apples and oranges here, but I do have both Royal and Kirby, though the Royal is older 880? I want to say 7 amp, with stiffeners and Kirby is Diamond, standard brushroll. I have a dark area short nap rug in front of litter box in garage space, over another rug, so the dancing of litter is very visible. I lowered Royal and nice dancing a foot away from nozzle , Kirby, over 2 ft away! Dyson 18 standing by? 3". ops. I tried the flour from under the rug inside house, but perhaps too tight a weave synthetic rug, neither pulled it through the weave, but the Kirby did pull several inches of it off the floor, royal just the edge. No help perhaps, but more info anyway! Love them both.
real1shep
Well-known member
Great....
thread! So much more interesting to have real CFM measurements. I just bought a Royal 880 to restore. I will never buy a Kirby for petty personal reasons...that have to do with Kirby people in the past and not so much about the machine, although it's heavier than anything I want in an upright.
If the 880 can at least vacuum better than the Hoover upright I had in college (and really liked) then I'm set. I've mourned the loss of that Hoover ever since I got into Elux canister collecting. There's just something about pushing and pulling a good upright versus dragging around a canister & PN.
Kevin
thread! So much more interesting to have real CFM measurements. I just bought a Royal 880 to restore. I will never buy a Kirby for petty personal reasons...that have to do with Kirby people in the past and not so much about the machine, although it's heavier than anything I want in an upright.
If the 880 can at least vacuum better than the Hoover upright I had in college (and really liked) then I'm set. I've mourned the loss of that Hoover ever since I got into Elux canister collecting. There's just something about pushing and pulling a good upright versus dragging around a canister & PN.
Kevin
suckolux
Well-known member
my Royal will self propel on some surfaces too, if set right. But they are a lot lighter and the wheels are very wide so they don't sink in, roll very easy
Will be interesting to see the results Bill if you get a Royal.
I do like the fact that the Royal is about 5 lbs lighter than my Kirby and the floorhead is narrower
Wish they copied Kirby and exported them. Why just sell them in North America?
I do like the fact that the Royal is about 5 lbs lighter than my Kirby and the floorhead is narrower
Wish they copied Kirby and exported them. Why just sell them in North America?
real1shep
Well-known member
<a name="start_34018.369083"></a>my Royal will self propel on some surfaces too, if set right. But they are a lot lighter and the wheels are very wide so they don't sink in, roll very easy
Makes sense. I have the smaller amp motor in my 1975 880. Almost immediately, I got 'amp envy' after reading about the more powerful motors that came later. But, we'll see how she does when I finish restoring her. Like I said, if she aces the old Hoover, I'm set....lol.
Like the discussion about Royals in another thread....I don't understand why they didn't go with polyurethane type wheels like skateboards did in the early 70's, instead of those dreadful, Bakelite type wheels they used for so long. If it's possible to find, I'm going to put skateboard wheels on the 880 of the same width and height. I've seen some longboards with very similar sized wheels and some graphics on the wheels would only add to the fun.
Kevin
Makes sense. I have the smaller amp motor in my 1975 880. Almost immediately, I got 'amp envy' after reading about the more powerful motors that came later. But, we'll see how she does when I finish restoring her. Like I said, if she aces the old Hoover, I'm set....lol.
Like the discussion about Royals in another thread....I don't understand why they didn't go with polyurethane type wheels like skateboards did in the early 70's, instead of those dreadful, Bakelite type wheels they used for so long. If it's possible to find, I'm going to put skateboard wheels on the 880 of the same width and height. I've seen some longboards with very similar sized wheels and some graphics on the wheels would only add to the fun.
Kevin
I modifiedd one of my 1028 Royal commercials to use a Kirby F-Fit bag tube and horn.Using the Ultimate Filtration Kirby Filtrte bags in thagt Royal now.There is a difference in the Royal-had to Raise the nozzle all the way up on the Rite Height dial.The machine p[ick up without any hesitation as wioth the older Royal paper bags and feed tube.The Royal tube was constricing the 10A Royal airflow.I have some Baird guages in my Kirby saleskits-but don't haved the holse adaptor handy for the Royal.I use the Kirby and Royal in upright modes only./i have other canister cleaners that I use-esp the MD cengtral vacuums.Will use my modified Royal some more.Like the Kirb y conversion.The KMirby bags are easier to get.
sptyks
Well-known member
Royal wheels...
Kevin,
Royal wheels are not made of Bakelite. They are made of the same material as Bowling balls are so as not to scratch wooden flooring. The material is like a very hard rubber that has a little bit of give to it.
The wheels are very wide so the Royal does not sink into the carpet. When I push it with the motor off, it feels almost like it's gliding on air. It is so much easier to push than my Sentria. It kind of feels like my D50 only with 3 times the power.
I don't care how you compare it to Kirby measurements, the proof is in the pudding. The Royal cleans carpet as well or better than Kirby!
Kevin,
Royal wheels are not made of Bakelite. They are made of the same material as Bowling balls are so as not to scratch wooden flooring. The material is like a very hard rubber that has a little bit of give to it.
The wheels are very wide so the Royal does not sink into the carpet. When I push it with the motor off, it feels almost like it's gliding on air. It is so much easier to push than my Sentria. It kind of feels like my D50 only with 3 times the power.
I don't care how you compare it to Kirby measurements, the proof is in the pudding. The Royal cleans carpet as well or better than Kirby!
real1shep
Well-known member
Stan...
it was stated recently on a Royal thread that they were Bakelite-isk wheels. Another member said that he had a Royal locked in a car with closed window(for storage) over the hot summer....and that the wheels themselves literally disintegrated from that hostile environ. I just question the use of wheel material given that urethane wheels are virtually indestructible and relatively inexpensive.
Kevin
it was stated recently on a Royal thread that they were Bakelite-isk wheels. Another member said that he had a Royal locked in a car with closed window(for storage) over the hot summer....and that the wheels themselves literally disintegrated from that hostile environ. I just question the use of wheel material given that urethane wheels are virtually indestructible and relatively inexpensive.
Kevin
real1shep
Well-known member
Great to know, thanks! And indeed what bowling balls are made of.....hoping to find a urethane wheel similar in diameter & width, with pressed in ball bearing that will fit the Royal shaft.
Kevin
Kevin
sptyks
Well-known member
Royal vs Kirby Airflow test
Hello everyone,
I just ran across this video of what I believe is a Royal Everlast 8300 and Kirby Diamond battling against each other over an empty paper towel roll. See for yourself which machine has by far the most airflow.
http://https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGVGKXXGIM8
Hello everyone,
I just ran across this video of what I believe is a Royal Everlast 8300 and Kirby Diamond battling against each other over an empty paper towel roll. See for yourself which machine has by far the most airflow.
http://https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGVGKXXGIM8
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