Kenmore Canister find at the sales today

[hoovercelebrity]

At one of the estate sales this morning, I was waylaid in the kitchen, looking at Corningware. Robert beat me to the basement, and when I got to the bottom of the stairs, he told me to follow him. That's usually a decent sign. Lol! We meandered through the laundry room and this Kenmore canister was sitting in a small room to the side. Marked $22, I couldn't leave it, especially in such nice condition. Just gave it a quick wipe, haven't plugged it in yet.. I think the hose must have been replaced, but maybe not.. The cleaner looks like it didn't get much use. I love the 10' hose! I'll have to put it on line for a spa day... I'm curious to play with this; I've never had a Kenmore of this era. Does anyone know of there are HEPA bags available for this cleaner?

 

[sbakerde]

I'm a little jelly

I have the same unit but yours is in much better shape. Incredible find!

 

[suckolux]

Very nice!

 

[hoovercelebrity]

Also found this GE. It's been repainted (took me a bit to realize that, as it was done really well). Nice little machine!

 

[DesertTortoise]

Amazing find. I can't believe the beautiful condition it's in. Was this from a collector?

Those are such well made vacuums. Everything is high quality and fits just so. Nothing about them is cheap. The round hole in the rear face allows you to plug the hose in and use it as a blower. This feature was deleted in the last couple of years that canister body was built. I use HEPA bags for a Numatic Henry in mine. You have to fold the bottom edge of the bag's cardboard end under a little to get the red bag adapter to seat, but that is a minor nuisance. You can also use a HEPA bag for a Riccar or Simplicity canister but that bag is much smaller than the Numatic bag. Even the Numatic bag is not quite as wide as the 5023/5033/E bag Kenmore sells.

Where is the red spout the bag attaches to? There is supposed to be a red spout with a flat end that slides into the slot in the bag chamber where the hose penetrates the body. I don't see it in the images. Without that it is basically impossible to get a bag to stay put. The elastic opening in the bag is supposed to fit over the spout. The flat end slides into the slot in the vacuum body, and the hose fits snugly into the inside diameter of the spout with a seal. Without that red spout, you have to finagle the bag over the end of the hose and they never seal right, and sometimes pop off during use. Been there done that. Find that red spout if you don't already have it. Good luck, I have been a couple of years trying to find one as I'm down one as well.

Store the hose laid straight and flat on the floor to preserve it. Don't hang it. Those hoses are harder than all get out to find. Preserve it carefully.

Ten foot hose, large bag capacity, great suction tools, just a happy combination of qualities. One of my favorite vacuums. Glad this one found a good home. I am looking at a more or less similar blue on on ebay for $129 and it is badly yellowed. Yours looks new. Well bought, bravo.

 

[hoovercelebrity]

Thanks!


 


Nope, not from a collector.. Just an estate sale.  Everything in the house was remarkably clean and in near perfect shape.  She also had 2 SP Hoover Windtunnels elsewhere in the house that I didn't even give a second look to; already have one.. I may go back to the sale tomorrow, there was a TON of stuff packed into the house.


 


The red bag adapter is present, it just didn't make it into the photos.  I'll have to hunt down some higher filtration bags.  With these machines, one of the things that has never appealed to me is the sort of "Rube Goldberg" appearance of the powernozzle.  To me these just don't look very finished or polished; odd little wheels, and knobs sticking out all over the place.  I'll give it a try though, before I make a final decision about it. 


 

 

[kenkart]

Hi Fred...

As you know, these are a little new for me to consider them vintage, but for deep cleaning plush carpet, they really are fantastic...as you also know, I dont really like power nozzles in general, im more of a 1950s straight suction fan...

 

[suckolux]

I enjoyed these machines, aunt had one and landlady before the Concept 1.

 

[kirbyloverdan]

Wow Fred

Great vacuums especially the Kenmore made by Whirlpool those never died .
My neighbor had one Mrs. Galloway hers was avacado green sears best .
She also had a 60's Mini Cooper in Coper brown with a white vinyl push back sunroof
it was a tiny car but she lived that more than her 1970 Lincoln Town car .

Dan

 

[DesertTortoise]

The first generation of the Powermate such as the one shown wasn't so well developed. Subsequent generations have stood the test of time and have become the industry standard. Current production Kenmore Powermates, Hayden Deluxe, Centec, Nutone and Panasonic powered floor brushes are all developments of the second generation Powermate and many parts are swappable across more than 35 model years. A second generation Powermate will work fine with this vacuum. That is what my examples came with. I use a Hayden Deluxe powered brush with them just to save the wear and tear on the originals.

Kirbyloverdan, I ran some model numbers of these same vacuums as well as the model number of an earlier steel bodied canister from the preceding generation past Sears in a letter, asking who actually made them. Sears reply was they were not built by Whirlpool but by Matsushita Electric Corporation of America. It may have been under contract to Whirlpool (I am still trying to understand how it worked), but according to Sears these vacuums were manufactured by Matsushita. They had several big plants in the US at the time. Before you protest consider that Whirlpool owns the Maytag name but contracts out the production of Maytag branded vacuums to Tacony. There is precedence for Whirlpool to contract out the production of their vacuums to third parties rather than build them in house. I believe that was the case with these. This takes nothing away from the excellence of their design and construction.

 

[vac-o-matic]

Score!

I have the "Sears Best" version of that model and it's a great vacuum. Fred, think Hoover Dimension 1000, only not as sleek! I love the way the vacuum itself and the power nozzle sound, powerful and efficient.

 

[DesertTortoise]

Yep, one of the all time great canister vacuums. Their ease of use and durability are amazing to me. Only the paucity of hoses makes me pause before using mine on a routine basis.

 

[kirbyloverdan]

Very interesting

DT thanks for the info I always appreciate the facts about vacuums I don't know everything and I am always glad to learn more

Dan

 

[eurekaprince]

I still do not believe that Matsushita had any involvement with Kenmore vacs in the 1970's. They were just entering the North American market with their own line of imported Made in Japan vacs that looked nothing like the Kenmores. Whirlpool had no need to get vacs made by a newcomer to the US market: they actually had far more experience in vac-making for Americans than the Japanese and did not need them.

Until a Panasonic Annual Report or corporate trade article shows me a contractual agreement from the 1970's between Sears and Whirlpool and Matsushita, I will not be convinced. I trust a document from the archives of Panasonic more than a letter from a young consumer relations agent at Sears.

Just my humble opinion...

 

[DesertTortoise]

I don't know why it bothers you so much. So what if Matsushita built them. Why is that so offensive to you? Are you equally bothered that Whirlpool farms their current vacuum production out to Tacony? If they farm their vacuum manufacturing out today, why not three decades ago?

Why would you believe the word of Panasonic more than Sears? I have asked this question of Panasonic a few times and they have refused so far to reply. They may be bound by some contractural terms not to say anything. I don't know, that's just conjecture. Sears at least was forthcoming about it. You can say what you want but do you have a letter from either Panasonic or Sears as I do that contradicts what I have?

 

[super-sweeper]

What if Whirlpool walked up to Matsushita and said, 'hi newcomer! How would you like to make some vacuums for us?'. What if Whirlpool did so to alleviate manufacturing pressure on themselves and had a few of their models made by Matsushita? For all we know, they could've been manufacturing the same model at the same time, or manufacturing one model for a while, then farming it out to Matsushita! You never know! 

 

[DesertTortoise]

Matsushita set up manufacturing plants in the US in 1961 under the name of Matsushita Electric Manufacturing of America. By the 1970s they had an established manufacturing base making audio, TVs and microwave ovens, along with heavy industrial equipment, power generation and distribution equipment and the like for the US market. Matsushita Electric Industrial Company, LTD, the parent, traces its beginning to 1918. Whirlppol was not formed until 1950 though it's roots date as far back as Matsushita's. Matsushita, now Panasonic, was and remains a heavyweight in the industry.

The company put everything under the Panasonic name in 2008. Panasonic was originally only used on consumer electronics and appliances for the US market. Everywhere else Matsushita used the the National brand name but that name was already trademarked in the US. Over time Panasonic gained brand recognition over the Matsushita name and in 2008 the corporate name was changed to Panasonic Corporation.

One last thing. It is telling to me that no history I have read of Whirlpool makes even one mention of making vacuum cleaners. They talk about the evolution of every other appliance they make but not a word regarding vacuum cleaners.

 

[magic-clean]

That's

a great vacuum you found. Very nice and in amazing condition.

With regard to Whirlpool involvement with vacuums, the vendor or source code of 116 indicates Whirlpool manufactured. At least from the late 1950's through the mid 1990's.

Whirlpool vacuums were produced in St. Paul MN and then at a new factory in Danville KY. Whirlpool sold the Danville facility and the vacuum business to Matushita sometime in the early to mid 1990's. There were Whirlpool branded vacuums available from 1985 to about 1991 or so.

L.P.

 

[kirbyloverdan]

Leslie

You are correct I think the sale to Panasonic is the reason for DT's and Sears confusion .
Whirlpool also made an 8lb vacuum that David Oreck bought the rights from Whirlpool
while he was working at Sears . That's how we now have the famous 8lb Oreck thanks to
whirlpool manufacturing vacuum cleaners .
Just as Eurekalux is claiming the success from the US brand original Electrolux once you own the company you can make any claim you desire

Dan

 

[kenkart]

Re Whirlpool

Whirlpool got the vacuum business from a Sears deal...Sears engeneered a hostile takeover of Birtman electric company and Seeger refrigerator company in 1957, this got their vacuum and mixer business as well as Coldspot business under 1 manufacturer..the Birtman built Kenmore vacuums have a odd looking motor built by Birtman, when this took over, they sold off the mixer business to Hamilton Beach, thus the 116 prefix, gave way to a 400 prefix, denoting HB, if you look at a Kenmore vacuum closely, somewhere you will find FSP stamped on it....Factory Specified Part = Whirlpool.Somewhere around the same late 50s timeframe, Whirlpool bought out Servel to get the ice maker, thus Coldspots had icemakers fairly early.

 

[DesertTortoise]

There is no confusion. I gave Sears the model numbers to a number of my vacuums, the oldest of which is a steel bodied thing that dates to the early 1970's model number 116.29971 (2-speed 2.7 "Sears Best"). I gave them the model numbers of two of my cream colored square bodied Kenmore canisters that are from the same series as this beautiful blue one. They are model numbers 116.22997(2-speed 3.9 with wood grain on lid) and 116.2399182 (variable speed 4.1). You can look all of these up in Sears Parts Direct using the model numbers and see for yourself that they are old square bodied Kenmore canister vacuums. In every case of a model number I own, Sears told me that they were manufactured for them by Matsushita. There is nothing even a little confusing about what Sears told me.

From 1984 on, Kenmore's first two generations of 5055 bagged machines were sold by Panasonic as their "V-Series" canister vacuums. Find out what Panasonic V9610, V9620, V9626, V9628, V9634, V9638 and V9647 are. You will see these are exactly the same canister vacuums sold by Sears under the Kenmore name. The lower cost suction only models Sears sold were likewise identical to several Panasonic models of that era.

I cannot fathom how the idea that Matsushita assembled Sears vacuums in a US plant gets so many people here so dialed up.

 

[DesertTortoise]

Btw, the 116 prefix carries forward to their current vacuums which are still made for them by Matsushita/Panasonic, only at a plant in Mexico. My brand new Progressive is model number 116.21512012. That prefix has apparently been used by Birtman, Whirlpool and Matsushita/Panasonic and unlike other manufacturers prefixes hasn't died with the death of a manufacturer.

 

[kirbyloverdan]

Matsushita

Owns the rights to claim they made Sears vacuums from day one that's where the confusion is just like every manufacturer who purchases any company owns the right to say what ever and ignore the past .
Us true lifelong collectors know the true history of vacuums Sears can say what ever they feel like saying it doesn't mean it's the word according to the almighty sears .


Dan

 

[DesertTortoise]

So here is my letter today to Whirlpool.

"I am trying to determine what Sears Kenmore vacuums were produced by Whirlpool and which were produced by Matsushita. I collect old Kenmore vacuums and have them going back to about 1970/71.
I posed the question to Sears giving them model numbers 116.29971, 116.22997, 116.2399182, 116.2145080 and some later model vacuums. Sears replied that all were produced by Matsushita, not Whirlpool. 116.2145080 is identical to a Panasonic MC-V9634 canister vacuum. but some in the industry and collectors still argue the identical Kenmore vacuum was a Whirlpool product.
Prior to the joint venture at your Kentucky vacuum plant circa 1990 did Whirlpool or Sears have some sort of contract with Matsushita to manufacture vacuums for Sears? From what I can see Matsushita was making at least some of Sears vacuums going back maybe all the way to 1970. Others will argue all of these vacs were built by Whirlpool up through about 1990, notwithstanding the V-Series Panasonic vacuums being part for part identical to Kenmore badged machines from 1984 forward.
Any clarity you could provide is greatly appreciated by this Kenmore vacuum fan. Thanks,

Phil"

I will post their reply if I receive one.

 

[DesertTortoise]

Kirbyloverdan, I didn't get the information from Panasonic. It came from Sears. Panasonic has not replied to my requests for information. We will see if Whirlpool does.

 

[kirbyloverdan]

DT

I understand but the confusion is coming from Sears and they are confusing you
I really don't think Sears has any idea of the history .
Nice letter see what they come back with hopefully it's not more confusing information .

Dan

 

[DesertTortoise]

So what about the Panasonic V-Series canister vacuums I listed? They are part for part identical to Kenmore canister vacuums from 1984 onwards. I think it is impossible to argue that by 1984 Matsushita was not building Kenmore vacuums, or at the very least Whirlpool and Matsushita had some sort of agreement to share design and engineering at the very least. The V-series is exactly the same vacuums as Kenmores first to generation of 5055 bagged machines. There is no confusion at all about that. Look at them and you will see what I mean.

 

[hoovercelebrity]

Desert Tortoise

Ok, can we not turn my thread about my new Kenmore into a pissing match about?


 


Do you even believe for a minute that ANYONE left at Sears (the hot crumbling mess that they are) knows ANYTHING about products that were produced 30+ years ago!?  Give me a break!  I think others on this forum may possibly know more about Sears' vacuum cleaners than whomever is manning the switchboard at Sears. 


 


We have users on this forum who in fact work (or have worked) for Whirlpool, I won't reveal identities - but suffice it to say, I feel that we have (received) correct information. 


 


I also don't find it the least bit surprising that Whirlpool makes no mention of their vacuum cleaner production.  They got their hands slapped pretty hard by Sears when they did that - there were probably still scars until Sears completely cut the cord a few years back.  The Whirlpool machines were wonderful vacuum cleaners, it's too bad that they weren't able to continue producing them.


 


If you want to continue arguing about who made what for who -- do it in another thread.  You have plenty to choose from, as you start enough threads about the same thing(s) over and over, which could easily be contained in far fewer threads. 


 


Thanks!


 


-Fred


 


 

 

[danemodsandy]

Some Info:

Fred:

This is a great score - an uncommon find in any condition, and even more so in such fantastic shape.

This is the uppermost of the MOL Kenmores from that era, just one model below the Sears Best version. The basic differences were: The Sears Best model had a detachable "tool garden" tray that fit on top of the canister, holding all the tools, and it had a two-speed motor.

The 10-foot hose you found is pretty rare. It was an option; if you will look at the specifications label you show in one of your photos, you will see it specifies a 6-foot hose. You could buy the 10-foot hose as an option. If you were buying a machine in a Sears store, you could specify the 10-foot hose and get credit for the standard 6-foot hose. The "credit back" arrangement was only available in stores; you could not get it through the catalog.

That power nozzle is one of the best and most versatile ever made, its "Rube Goldberg" appearance notwithstanding. The biggest feature is the carpet height adjustment, which puts the brush roll at the perfect height for any kind of carpet. One of my Atlanta houses had shaggy rya rugs over low-loop Berber carpet; the Sears Best version I had could handle both pile types easily. It also makes it possible to compensate for brush-roll wear. I can't tell from the photo if yours has the headlight or not; the same housing was used for both versions. The headlight is a nice, nice feature. The Edge Clean is passive, meaning there's a little non-powered red plastic brush in the corner of the soleplate that is supposed to whisk dirt away from baseboards, etc.

These were excellent vacuums, but their survival rate is not great. First, they're plastic-bodied. Second, the Sears customer wasn't the kind of "old money" customer that Electrolux had, who would maintain and repair an older vacuum.

I have only one question: What wonderful thing have you done to deserve this AND an Ironrite 95? You must be living right!