Kenmore Canister find at the sales today

[kenkart]

Re Whirlpool

Whirlpool got the vacuum business from a Sears deal...Sears engeneered a hostile takeover of Birtman electric company and Seeger refrigerator company in 1957, this got their vacuum and mixer business as well as Coldspot business under 1 manufacturer..the Birtman built Kenmore vacuums have a odd looking motor built by Birtman, when this took over, they sold off the mixer business to Hamilton Beach, thus the 116 prefix, gave way to a 400 prefix, denoting HB, if you look at a Kenmore vacuum closely, somewhere you will find FSP stamped on it....Factory Specified Part = Whirlpool.Somewhere around the same late 50s timeframe, Whirlpool bought out Servel to get the ice maker, thus Coldspots had icemakers fairly early.

 

[DesertTortoise]

There is no confusion. I gave Sears the model numbers to a number of my vacuums, the oldest of which is a steel bodied thing that dates to the early 1970's model number 116.29971 (2-speed 2.7 "Sears Best"). I gave them the model numbers of two of my cream colored square bodied Kenmore canisters that are from the same series as this beautiful blue one. They are model numbers 116.22997(2-speed 3.9 with wood grain on lid) and 116.2399182 (variable speed 4.1). You can look all of these up in Sears Parts Direct using the model numbers and see for yourself that they are old square bodied Kenmore canister vacuums. In every case of a model number I own, Sears told me that they were manufactured for them by Matsushita. There is nothing even a little confusing about what Sears told me.

From 1984 on, Kenmore's first two generations of 5055 bagged machines were sold by Panasonic as their "V-Series" canister vacuums. Find out what Panasonic V9610, V9620, V9626, V9628, V9634, V9638 and V9647 are. You will see these are exactly the same canister vacuums sold by Sears under the Kenmore name. The lower cost suction only models Sears sold were likewise identical to several Panasonic models of that era.

I cannot fathom how the idea that Matsushita assembled Sears vacuums in a US plant gets so many people here so dialed up.

 

[DesertTortoise]

Btw, the 116 prefix carries forward to their current vacuums which are still made for them by Matsushita/Panasonic, only at a plant in Mexico. My brand new Progressive is model number 116.21512012. That prefix has apparently been used by Birtman, Whirlpool and Matsushita/Panasonic and unlike other manufacturers prefixes hasn't died with the death of a manufacturer.

 

[kirbyloverdan]

Matsushita

Owns the rights to claim they made Sears vacuums from day one that's where the confusion is just like every manufacturer who purchases any company owns the right to say what ever and ignore the past .
Us true lifelong collectors know the true history of vacuums Sears can say what ever they feel like saying it doesn't mean it's the word according to the almighty sears .


Dan

 

[DesertTortoise]

So here is my letter today to Whirlpool.

"I am trying to determine what Sears Kenmore vacuums were produced by Whirlpool and which were produced by Matsushita. I collect old Kenmore vacuums and have them going back to about 1970/71.
I posed the question to Sears giving them model numbers 116.29971, 116.22997, 116.2399182, 116.2145080 and some later model vacuums. Sears replied that all were produced by Matsushita, not Whirlpool. 116.2145080 is identical to a Panasonic MC-V9634 canister vacuum. but some in the industry and collectors still argue the identical Kenmore vacuum was a Whirlpool product.
Prior to the joint venture at your Kentucky vacuum plant circa 1990 did Whirlpool or Sears have some sort of contract with Matsushita to manufacture vacuums for Sears? From what I can see Matsushita was making at least some of Sears vacuums going back maybe all the way to 1970. Others will argue all of these vacs were built by Whirlpool up through about 1990, notwithstanding the V-Series Panasonic vacuums being part for part identical to Kenmore badged machines from 1984 forward.
Any clarity you could provide is greatly appreciated by this Kenmore vacuum fan. Thanks,

Phil"

I will post their reply if I receive one.

 

[DesertTortoise]

Kirbyloverdan, I didn't get the information from Panasonic. It came from Sears. Panasonic has not replied to my requests for information. We will see if Whirlpool does.

 

[kirbyloverdan]

DT

I understand but the confusion is coming from Sears and they are confusing you
I really don't think Sears has any idea of the history .
Nice letter see what they come back with hopefully it's not more confusing information .

Dan

 

[DesertTortoise]

So what about the Panasonic V-Series canister vacuums I listed? They are part for part identical to Kenmore canister vacuums from 1984 onwards. I think it is impossible to argue that by 1984 Matsushita was not building Kenmore vacuums, or at the very least Whirlpool and Matsushita had some sort of agreement to share design and engineering at the very least. The V-series is exactly the same vacuums as Kenmores first to generation of 5055 bagged machines. There is no confusion at all about that. Look at them and you will see what I mean.

 

[hoovercelebrity]

Desert Tortoise

Ok, can we not turn my thread about my new Kenmore into a pissing match about?


 


Do you even believe for a minute that ANYONE left at Sears (the hot crumbling mess that they are) knows ANYTHING about products that were produced 30+ years ago!?  Give me a break!  I think others on this forum may possibly know more about Sears' vacuum cleaners than whomever is manning the switchboard at Sears. 


 


We have users on this forum who in fact work (or have worked) for Whirlpool, I won't reveal identities - but suffice it to say, I feel that we have (received) correct information. 


 


I also don't find it the least bit surprising that Whirlpool makes no mention of their vacuum cleaner production.  They got their hands slapped pretty hard by Sears when they did that - there were probably still scars until Sears completely cut the cord a few years back.  The Whirlpool machines were wonderful vacuum cleaners, it's too bad that they weren't able to continue producing them.


 


If you want to continue arguing about who made what for who -- do it in another thread.  You have plenty to choose from, as you start enough threads about the same thing(s) over and over, which could easily be contained in far fewer threads. 


 


Thanks!


 


-Fred


 


 

 

[danemodsandy]

Some Info:

Fred:

This is a great score - an uncommon find in any condition, and even more so in such fantastic shape.

This is the uppermost of the MOL Kenmores from that era, just one model below the Sears Best version. The basic differences were: The Sears Best model had a detachable "tool garden" tray that fit on top of the canister, holding all the tools, and it had a two-speed motor.

The 10-foot hose you found is pretty rare. It was an option; if you will look at the specifications label you show in one of your photos, you will see it specifies a 6-foot hose. You could buy the 10-foot hose as an option. If you were buying a machine in a Sears store, you could specify the 10-foot hose and get credit for the standard 6-foot hose. The "credit back" arrangement was only available in stores; you could not get it through the catalog.

That power nozzle is one of the best and most versatile ever made, its "Rube Goldberg" appearance notwithstanding. The biggest feature is the carpet height adjustment, which puts the brush roll at the perfect height for any kind of carpet. One of my Atlanta houses had shaggy rya rugs over low-loop Berber carpet; the Sears Best version I had could handle both pile types easily. It also makes it possible to compensate for brush-roll wear. I can't tell from the photo if yours has the headlight or not; the same housing was used for both versions. The headlight is a nice, nice feature. The Edge Clean is passive, meaning there's a little non-powered red plastic brush in the corner of the soleplate that is supposed to whisk dirt away from baseboards, etc.

These were excellent vacuums, but their survival rate is not great. First, they're plastic-bodied. Second, the Sears customer wasn't the kind of "old money" customer that Electrolux had, who would maintain and repair an older vacuum.

I have only one question: What wonderful thing have you done to deserve this AND an Ironrite 95? You must be living right!

 

[hydralique]

I will agree . . .

A height adjustment is a mighty nice thing to have; I'm surprised that all high end power brushes don't have this feature because it makes the product that much more useful. Love the blue color of this vac too, very pretty - I really enjoyed looking at the photos. Overall a fabulous find and it's good to know it has gone to a collector and not just someone looking for a cheap vacuum.

 

[marks_here]

It still makes me laugh on some of those when you hit the shag setting how high up it goes. If you have/had carpet that thick you may get lost in it if you lay down!!

 

[kenkart]

The height adjustment,,

Is better than most because of 4 wheels, instead of just raising the front at an angle, it raises it level....really works., im not much on power nozzles, to me most are clunky, but clunky or not, these clean well.

 

[marks_here]

I know they cleaned very well, we had one for a short time green/creme colour with the light on the p.n. until mom lent it to the neighbours that were moving & it moved along with them!

 

[super-sweeper]

LOL the 'who made what for Sears' war is almost as bad as the Kirby vs. Dyson war! Still makes for an interesting read! 

 


The Kenmore find is stunning! I have the Sears Best model in Avocado and wood-grain! It's Devine! Whenever it sees use, it follows me around and leaves no mess behind, puttering along happily the entire trip! It's marvelous on both bare floors and rugs, I'm sure your model does the same! Yours is later than mine, about the early 80s. Sears fixed their troublesome Tool Garden (you always find them with broken teeth, I got VERY lucky with my Duo-Power, and to think I almost didn't buy the thing! 

) by integrating it into the hood! 


 


LOL Mark, that Kenmore must've felt terrible as it waved bye from the back of a moving truck! I wonder what became of it?

 

[danemodsandy]

Mark:

The pile on my best rya rug (a Cabin Crafts design by Bittan Valborg) was around 2-1/2 inches long. More ordinary shag carpet of the '70s was typically 1 inch to 1-1/4 inches long. That "High" setting was DAMN useful back then.

Shag had its drawbacks - especially the marks it could leave on skin. Don't ask me how I know that.

 

[marks_here]

I dunno Alex, LOL ours had the option of having it inside or on top which was useless if you stood it up, everything fell off. I did at leads get to try that before the heist. It would have been nice to gave found out how long it would have lasted. Ohh we had the floor scrubber too the turquoise one that one I lent to my bods then she left the hotel for another place & never saw that one again either.

 

[super-sweeper]

2 1/2 inches thick? You better not invite Mickey Rooney over or you'll never find him! Hahahaha, 2 1/2 inches thick, Mickey Rooney!.....anybody get that joke? Anyone? 

 


 


 


 


 


 


Who's minding the store! 

 


 

 

[DesertTortoise]

Danemodsandy, yes the bodies were plastic, but there is plastic and then there is plastic. Those bodies are tough. Really tough. Nothing about these vacuums is fragile. We have had one in our family since 1983, a 4.1 with the variable speed motor and the off/on/floor switch on the hose. It came with the second generation Powermate upon which all subsequent Powermates are based. It was never babied. My parents didn't collect vacuums. it was a broom with a motor in it, nothing more. In 35 years of regular use, it has needed one replacement ten foot hose (luckily it happened when you could still buy one and put your ends on it), a motor for the Powermate (needs another, the new one didn't last a quarter as long as the first) and it yellowed from age. Oh yeah, the foam pre-motor filter crumbled. The old Lamb motor still has well over half the brush length left, credit using it below full power most of the time. The lid seal still seals fine. A very careful well aimed spritz of some Triflow teflon lube to the cord reel restored smooth function. The cord itself cleaned up nice. Functionally it works like a new vacuum.

Some Retrobrite reversed the yellowing, I cleaned it out thoroughly and if I could get a reliable supply of hoses for it I am sure it would soldier on happily another 35 years. I have to replace the foam on the pre-motor filter (foam arrived this week, I've been running Electrolux bulk filter media in it's stead along with a more modern filter media for the exhaust filter), replace that Powermate motor and that's it. The brush roll and beater bar are original and still have plenty of bristle left. I use HEPA bags for Numatics to keep it clean inside. It's a great vacuum. I can't think of a tougher vacuum than these.

I'll tell you what, I have it's steel bodied predecessor, my Avocado Bomber, a Sears Best 2.7 2-Speed and this generation with it's plastic body is a better vacuum in every possible way.

 

[DesertTortoise]

Ok Hoovercelebrity, you tell me why examples of the Panasonic V-Series canisters and Kenmore's first gen 5055 bagged machines and the follow on Whispertone series are part for part identical. We are talking vacuums that went on sale in 1984 that were sold under the Kenmore and Panasonic names that are identical in every way but the name and model designation. What is the story? Did Whirlpool make vacuums for Matsushita rather than the other way around? I might actually believe that btw, though Matsushita also made components and appliances sold under the GE brand name. They did contract work like that and not just for Whirlpool. It was one of the ways Matsushita made a living. You make a claim to know people who were there. What is the story?