James Dyson: "The EU should spur invention, not mediocrity"

[turbo500]

Yes, Benny, I was referring to US Top Loaders. The old UK Hotpoint TL's had heat settings the same as the FL's.

NYCWriter, bold statements considering you use a TL at home. I'd love to see some evidence of this, seeing as you apparantly think everybody in Europe is walking around wearing dirty clothes.

Speaking from experience of using a US TL Whirlpool in a previous job to wash kitchen cloths, table cloths and seat covers when I worked for a local childrens activity centre, that machine never got a damn thing clean. It would leave stains and nothing smelt fresh. It was much better to take the washing home and do it in a proper FL. It was eventually replaced by a EU Miele Little Giant, which got everything clean.

I'm not blaming this on the machine. The combination of that type of machine and a European detergent just didn't work. If we were using a US detergent and all the additional products that are required to go along with it, I'm sure the results would have been fine.

As I said, growning up in a house with 4 kids (3 boys) you can imagine the level of washing and the stains involved - food, mud, grass stains, paint, pen etc. You name it, we washed it. And yet they always came out of the machine clean with no need for additional chemicals and stain removers in the load. Unlike a US TL with no actual heat setting that requires additional chemicals just for basic washing like keeping sheets white. [this post was last edited: 6/26/2014-04:48]

 

[sebo_fan]

Actually Benny, following on from last night's Watchdog consumer news slot, it would appear that most of the UK can't be bothered to shop properly, either. Most do online food shopping, which I have never done, as of yet.

Two of my friends who work (one who is part time, the other full time but off at weekends) have also announced at the age of 30, they're both hiring cleaners to come in as they can't be bothered to clean home. Neither of them are married, but both are blokes who simply can't be bothered.

Seems like I must be of very few who loves to do things the old fashioned way. Lemon juice, vinegar, "how to clean by Kim & Aggie" cleaning bible, steam mop and a handful of vacuums I get to use myself.

 

[turbo500]

^I remember when I first left home 6 years ago, a friend of my then flatmate also left home for the first time around the same time as us. He hired a cleaner, lived off take aways and took his washing home for his Mum every weekend. WHAT. IS. THE. POINT?

There's 2 of us at home. Both work long hours. I leave home at 7:20am, and don't get home until between 6:30 and 7pm. Ro has a more flexible schedule because of the nature of his job, but that also means he can sometimes be out late into the evenings or have to be in work early. We still manage to do what we have to.

It's pure laziness.

 

[sptyks]

Washing Machines...

 "The main difference being that TL's don't heat the water and require far more additional chemicals and stain removers to achieve the same result as an EU frontloader does with just detergent."


 


We all know that this is not necessarily the case.


 


Turbo500: Maybe you should refrain from posting on this subject until you get all your facts straight.

 

[DesertTortoise]

I have to stay in a Navy Lodge from time to time when on travel to San Diego. The laundry rooms have a line of expensive top of the line front loading washers and dryers. I detest the washers more than I can possibly express. They simply do not rinse the detergent out of the clothes adequately, and they leave suds on the inside of the machine that are impossible to avoide touching your clothes as you unload them after washing. I am careful to measure the detergent and not use too much.

My old 90's vintage Maytag top loader at home does a far better job of cleaning my clothes, never under any circumstances leaves suds after the final rinse and only takes half the time of the top loader to do so. Why any washing machine requires a full hour to wash a load of clothes is beyond me.

I also detest that once started, you cannot stop the machine and throw in something you neglected to put in the load before starting. I will never, ever, under any circumstance own one. I will find ways to keep those old Maytags running. Parts remain readily available.

The popularity of front loading washing machines completely escapes me. It is another uninformed trend like bagless vacuums that needs a stake driven deeply into it's heart.

 

[DesertTortoise]

My experiences on travel in Europe was that European washing machines did a lousy job of washing clothes. Whenever possible I tried to use a laundromat on a US military base if there was one near where I was traveling. They generally had US sourced commercial washers and dryers, not European machines. One washing machine in particular at a German guest house left all of my clothes a near uniform grey color. I wore them but I wasn't happy.

 

[DesertTortoise]

$599 list price for a Kenmore Elite Intuition canister vacuum and it might last four to five years before something breaks or fails that is beyond economical repair. That's a lot of money for that kind of throw away junk. Everything about them feels cheap and nasty. The Chinese motors in them are kludge, nothing like the stout double ball bearing Ametek Lamb motors Kenmore used to use.

To get something with the sort of durability one used to expect from a Sears vacuum you have to pay four figures for a Riccar or Simplicity, or darn close to four figures for a top of the line Miele. And even then, I don't think the plastics will prove as durable as that of a 1980's or early to mid 1990's Kenmore.

 

[vintagerepairer]

pure laziness

That is as may be to an outsider, however, to the person who has the disposable income to pay for it, if they can get a good service provider, it's win-win. It is also very good for the economy as it means it helps keep people employed. I have to say I am all for -and always have been- paying someone else to do a job which I don't like doing. As long as there has been the means to pay for it -for instance the opportunity to go and work for the money- I've generally paid to get work done for me. Someone who is better skilled and enjoys that job will always do it much more efficiently.

I have a professional cleaner now. I see hiring her as no different from using a dentist, plumber, decorator, and doctor. It's all about perception.

 

[turbo500]

Ok, the great front loader vs top loader debate is never ending.


 


As I've already mentioned, we had a Whirlpool TL at work. I also had the misfortune of using a Speed Queen TL whilst traveling in Europe a few years ago. And the Maytag's at my sisters uni. I found them all excessively large and unnecessary, used too much water and the results were average, at best. Needlessly wasteful. Although the Speed Queen was probably the least offensive.


 


I've never seen a US TL with full temperature selection - just "cold", "warm" and "hot". Not even adequate IMO.


 


Seeing as this debate really isn't going to go anywhere (just like it hasn't done for the last god knows how many years on Autowasher), lets get back on topic, shall we?


 


 

 

[sebo_fan]

Apart from SEBO and Hoover with their TP2/3 series, has there been any other upright on the market which has a motor filter on top of the hood before the bin? I'm just wondering about this, with talk about filters and what Benny refers to in his last response regarding some vacuums that have low power and still put out dust, in particular vacuums of old.

Im also wondering and from where I have seen it - cleaning tools that have vents in the recesses of a machine, where the suction air takes the dust off the cleaning tools when they are stored on the vacuum cleaner.

 

[DesertTortoise]

Really Sebo_fan? I wonder what using suction to clean the cleaning tools does to the suction available to vacuum the floor? Just saying .............

Btw, I am weird enough to use the bare hose, or sometimes the crevice tool to suck the dust bunnies and hair off a tool I just finished using, especially floor brushes, before I stow them. But self cleaning? Oh my! Makes me think of those Japanese commodes that wash you with warm water and then blow you dry underneath, lol

 

[sebo_fan]

Well if it has two motors, DT, I'm sure a machine can cope.

 

[DesertTortoise]

I guess I'm not following Sebo_fan. Only one of those motors provides suction, the other drives the brush. Bleed off suction for tool cleaning and you have less suction for carpet or floor cleaning. It's kind of like opening the little slot on the end of the hose to decrease suction.

 

[turbo500]

to suck the dust bunnies and hair off a tool

That's not weird at all, that's just sensible .

 

[sebo_fan]

Depends on what vacuum cleaner you might have, DT.

Take SEBO for example - some of their uprights have two motors - the Felix is a good example. Due to the tight sealed suction, there is enough power from low to high that shifts dirt quickly.

 

[DesertTortoise]

Sebo_fan, I am pretty familiar with Sebo and Windsor uprights. I have two of them. One of those two motors spins the brush and provides no suction. Those vacuums are the equivalent of a canister with it's vacuum motor and powered brush with it's separate motor. The brush motor doesn't add suction, only agitation. If you bleed off suction from the suction motor to clean tools, that is less suction to clean floors. You can't get around that detail. Now whether or not a particular vacuum has suction to spare is an argument that can never be settled (see the discussion of vacuum wattage vs how well they clean a given floor).

Btw, I deliberatly gave the two motor Windsor uprights a pass because they are too heavy and are tiring to push around, and they are clumsy to use in carpeted bedrooms. Nein, danke.

 

[sptyks]

SEBO Felix

So DT, have you ever tried a SEBO Felix which has 2 motors and lighter than Windsor. If so, what are your thoughts on the Felix?

 

[sebo_fan]

Im quite confused DT

Your profile states that you are into Windsor vacs and that your cleaning crew has them. You also appear to like them. You own two S12 models by Windsor, or as we used to be able to get them in the UK, the SEBO G1/G2 series with manual height adjustment.

The Felix is marginally lighter than the X series in my opinion, but you win the swivel plus of the Felix plus it can be used with suction only tools, thus at its most maximum weighs 5kg without the PN added.

Im not saying that SEBO should add suction-cleaning tools to their roster of design, but moving on with the duster idea that Electrolux/Eureka fitted to some of their bagless uprights, I'm sure cleaning off tools once they are installed into a cradle of some sort could be cleaned off. It is just a thought I had, not an intentional move for any brand to pick up and I was just interested to know if anyone knew of any vacuum cleaner that has those kind of tool holders.

If we are going to go pedantic about vacuum watts vs cleaning a floor, not all floors are level, not all kinds of carpet have the same pile. There are many variables to consider, it's not just about a brush roll or whether the machine has auto adjustment or manual.

 

[adamthemieleman]

Well here is a surprise, James whining on like a little crybaby. (Oh my heart bleeds, I'll just get out my violin)

I was a fan of him and Dyson, until for no good explainable reason they turned down my application to work for them. Apparently I did not show enough skill in engineering on the CV and it wouldn't be fair for other applicants. OK, so at uni we have massive amounts of resources and time? Is this fair on me though, judging without even knowing?
So much for a company wanting engineers in a so-called shortage!

Total bull, as is all the nonsense about the plastic monstrosities being powerful and 'the best' and how they never loose suction, ever.

It will be back to Miele for me, don't know why I left them in the first place, and I shall sell only Miele. After all, we all know how a Dyson deals with sand... Even reps tell us not too use sand. Oh dear, how that opens a can of worms! All I need is red sand, black carpet and a interceptor, and their sales will drop like a tarts knickers.

Maybe I am too good for Dyson, and I know the truth of all the shameless marketing and empty claims, so actually I should be thankful, I will apply to work for Miele instead. Go back to the hole you came from Jimmy and stop talking tripe.

 

[dys0nb0y]

Are you technically saying because Dyson doesn't want you to work for them so you not going to sell Dyson any more and to make people buy Miele instead and make Dyson look bad that doesn't seem very fair. For what I can see Dyson outcleans miele on the new EU tests