Is the Kirby's airflow and performance over exaggerated?

[vaclab]

Mark, I Can See You Aren't Familiar With Ohm's Law

You said:
In a vacuum cleaner the voltage can be seen as the suction, the current as the airflow and the carpet is the resistance.So low suction (voltage) will mean a low airflow (current) through a given resistance ie the carpet. Proven by science.
==========================
E=IR and P=IE

Airflow would be liked to voltage and suction (water lift) would be likened to current. So many people get this one backwards.

As resistance increases (carpet), current increases or more accurately ATTEMPTS to increase. If the current (suction) cannot maintain the voltage, the voltage (CFM) begins to drop under an increasing load (resistance).

Voltage is a potential difference between two points, say earth ground and something else. The strength of the voltage (ability to resist a load) is current. The strength of the airflow is suction, which is the ability to maintain CFM under a resistance (carpet).

Don't confuse the above with what the electrical motor is experiencing as that is a different ball of wax.

Look behind the Kirby Avalir and Diamond Edition in my videos. See that giant blob of electrical testing gear? Do you know how long I've been designing/building electrical circuits and power supplies to feed those circuits? Try over 40 years. I'm also FCC certified so I know how to design/build transmitters and antennas.

 

[vacuumdevil]

@vaclab You're really wanted to speak about scientific testing
With your cardboard box.
I haven't seen you debunk anything,
perhaps because your only platform is here?
Not sure how or why you would want to go against an industry standard?
You're in no place to debunk anything from your past comments and videos.
Just accept that you are a form of entertainment and nothing more .
I see you tried to bully people on here.
You should just stop and agree to disagree New balance man.

 

[huskyvacs]

"dust mites are easily removed from hardfloors but they cling to carpets. I suffer with dust mite allergies I went to see one of the best allergy consultants in the UK and he told me to remove the carpets and fit hardwood flooring. "

okay then why are you here starting arguments about kirby? are you doing it out of spite because you cannot own anything beyond a stick vacuum or something? since you can only have tile or hardwood flooring in your house, that has absolutely nothing to do with kirby or their cleaning ability - you just want to start trouble which will subsequently get you banned. this post should have been a single comment on one of his videos, and not a forum post here. if you don't like kirby then so what? nobody has a gun to your head forcing you to buy it.

if you actually try different vacuums and find out which one works best for you, and not just parroting what youtube influencers tell you to buy - this whole problem can be averted. vacuums are all built for different price points, different carpet and flooring types, and different uses in mind. you have to analyze their features, and see which one would suit you, try it out, if it doesn't work out for you, clean it up and return it. I have a wool area rug from 2007 and I found the best vacuum to use on it that doesn't eat the fibers and beats the dirt out of the pile is a 1920's Hoover. It has soft horsehair fibers that gently groom it and a obligue beater bar pattern. No surprise, because those were the kinds of rugs that existed in that time period just as well as oriental rugs. Mostly all nylon-bristled vacuums will singe wool rugs due to friction burn and the aggressive stiffness of the bristles. Just the same, you would not want to use a big powerful industrial vacuum meant for hotels and casinos in your own home, as they are made for low pile carpeting and are very very powerful and could rip a domestic carpet to shreds instantly.

Here's a little $70 Eureka Powerspeed pulling a (literally) ton of sand out of a plush hotel carpet. It has the advantage because the brushroll creates static electricity which helps grab the sand out of the carpeting, and it has a big bin that lets more airflow intake in and out of the vacuum for better suction performance. that would be a plus for buying this vacuum, if you live near a beach or have a lot of sand issues.



now here's a little fun fact - dust mites do not only live in carpeting. they live in every sort of fabric in your house. bed, pillows, curtains, the clothes in your closet, upholstery, etc. If you had a good quality central HVAC system with a hepa filter and also a good negative air particulate filter on it (most places in the UK do not own one because the houses are too old and small to even fit one in) and keep your curtains, bed, and clothes washed weekly with a allergenic detergent then dust mites would not be a problem. they cannot thrive in humidity levels below 50% either. it's a lot easier for a doctor to say "tear out the carpet" then to actually do any sort of testing on your home to find the allergy triggers. Doctors are not scientists and neither are vacuum shop mechanics.

bill definitely has the upper hand here because he knows the science proven behind his methods through his life experiences and/or job, and that's the same stuff taught in electrical engineering courses, so the knowledge is sound and proven, and he is generous enough to share it with us. (even though all that math goes way over my head lol)

 

[jo]

The Kirby problem

While they may have strong suction power, all that power is useless on a sealed back carpet if the nozzle is indeed sealed to the carpet without airflow grooves or notches. Perhaps newer Kirby’s have this but I’m not sure, all I know is the old one my Dad had did not and it would stick to the carpet like glue unless you had the nozzle raised slightly above the carpet and you had to tweak that height adjuster all the time which was annoying. So the powerful suction was there, but didn’t do much good to properly allow the machine to move or clean without adjusting it to allow some airflow in around the edges of the nozzle. I think Kirby’s solution was why they had so many height adjustment settings, so the user could tweak it to be just right for different piles of carpet...but why leave this up to the customer to have to do? Then they added self propelling and a roller brush light to monitor the roller operation because if it was stuck to the carpet then the roller would stall and slip on the belt then the belt would stretch and burn...all of their solutions I feel are just band aids to relieve the problem somewhat but not really, just adjust it so the problem isn’t a problem, but can still occur if the user doesn’t set the height correctly. The bottom of the nozzle should be redesigned and the height adjustment should be fully automatic. An example is the Omni-Flo Automatic height adjusting system on Electrolux which Aerus still uses today. With each forward stroke the nozzle is allowed to rise up just enough to push it easily and not stick to the carpet and then it returns to full down position on the pull toward you backstroke. Each forward stroke can be at a different height fully variable and is automatically adjusted as you push by the system itself. Very thick and deep wall to wall carpeting will engage the feature moreso while on low pile carpeting the system will likely not engage at all. The roller isn’t allowed to stall due to the geared belt system and thread reinforced quality belts. An overheat switch is present to stop the motor if roller rotation is stopped by a jam or entanglement. And the airflow vents that have been added to the L shaped design over time, allow the airflow to pull from the front and sides of the nozzle allowing edge and front cleaning and no sticking to any carpet, hence the « Omni-Flo name that was displayed on the L shaped units during the Diamond Jubilee and Marquis era. While the Omni-flo Automatic name was discontinued on newer power nozzle motor covers, the system still is in use today. It just works quite well. It’s probably patented.

As an observant person, who did most of the vacuuming for Mom growing up...When we upgraded from an Electrolux pn-1 power nozzle to the Omni-Flo Automatic pn-6A model, and we had different types of carpet all over I carefully noticed and started observing how the whole automatically adjusting system works.

 

[vacfan1982]

Husky Vacs I have an MD Central Vac, Vorwerk VK150 , Miele S5, C3, Sebo Felix Sebo X4, Henry, Dyson V8. You can get anti allergy covers for bedding. I have a leather sofa so dust mites don't live there. They don't actually live in curtains but their faeces can do if dust mites aren't removed from your home, which they have been from mine. I also have a Blueair air purifier.

And no i'm not the biggest fan of the kirby having owned 2 of them but like you say "So what. there are things I appreciate about them though. But unlike Bill and some others I don't think they are the best thing since sliced bread and constantly bleat on about their so called superiority Baaaaaaaa

It wasn't my intention to cause an argument I was trying to get to the truth about the kirbys performance on a sealed carpet, I have been entitely civil and not personal like some. [this post was last edited: 3/14/2020-01:48]

 

[vacfan1982]

Bill Current increases as resistance increases?

This equation, i = v/r, tells us that the current, i, flowing through a circuit is directly proportional to the voltage, v, and inversely proportional to the resistance, r. In other words, if we increase the voltage, then the current will increase. But, if we increase the resistance, then the current will decrease.

When you placed the Kirby on top of a flow through carpet on top of your airflow box the CFM dropped by 65%, if you placed it on a sealed carpet where the resistance is greater it will drop even further. I think you know this to be true [this post was last edited: 3/14/2020-02:06]

 

[crazykirbydude]

Again, the Kirby has a gold CRI seal, while Dyson has none. The Carpet And Rug Institute tests vacuums on all sorts of carpet types, including rubber backed carpet. I have used my Kirby on my rubber backed rugs, and it does an excellent job. It gets stuff that my Shark misses.

On a separate note, the moderator needs to lock this thread. This thread was intended to be inflammatory, and nothing constructive has been said as a result. I don't understand why people can't simply ignore a person who is trying to start drama. Just be nice! This is the last time that I am going to reply to this thread, because I think this whole argument is stupid and I have better things to do.

 

[vaclab]

Here Are Some Real World Figures

Since we never have "unlimited" current to prop up the voltage under an increasing load, the voltage will drop. Said another way, since we never have unlimited suction, the CFM will drop under an increasing load. Take a real long look at this actual motor performance chart.

At a 2" opening (low resistance), the CFM=141.5 and the suction=7.4"
At a 1" opening (medium resistance), the CFM=95.3 and the suction=56.9"
At a 0.5" opening (high resistance), the CFM=33.3 and the suction=112.7"

Same goes for current limited electrical circuits. When the resistance increases, the current increases to attempt to prop up the voltage as long as it can until it maxes out and then voltage drops.

You can witness a part of this behavior in countless videos I've made where I show the voltage drop under a 10A or 12A vacuum load (low resistance).

And don't forget that the absolute value of what CFM remains is always the key. If machine "X" loses 100 CFM and only has 50 CFM remaining, that is still quite better than a machine that loses 25 CFM and only has 25 CFM remaining.

So yes, I'm saying that a variety of dirty air machines, including Sanitaire, Royal, Kirby, classic Hoovers, etc., will have superior airflow on sealed carpets compared to low CFM bagless machines. They will not drop to something ridiculous like 10 CFM. Know how to tell? Because the vacuum would absolutely howl in protest and the motor would overheat in just a few minutes.

Have a listen to what happens when a Kirby dirt pad gets clogged and airflow drops. A properly height adjusted direct air machine won't sound like this. I just cleaned a 6000+ sq. ft. church low pile sealed commercial carpet with a Sanitaire Wide Track II and it has a boatload of usable CFM when adjusted properly.




Bill

 

[luxflairguy]

This has gotten beyond boring and reptetitive! Reporting to moderator!

 

[vacuumdevil]

@luxflairguy Thank you God!

 

[vacfan1982]

[No message]

 

[luxflairguy]

Has it NOT been made clear enough that this nonsense won't go on on VL?
Take you selfishness and go else where! it's not welcome here any longer

 

[vacfan1982]

[No message]

 

[unimatic1140]

May I ask why these post are being marked as offensive? I realized there are differences of opinion when it comes to technical data and personal experiences. I don't see any profanity, nudity or other things that I would consider truly offensive in this thread. I do hate continual brand bashing and I see it on both sites and many facebook groups as well but it's a fine line into censorship to squelch speech based on opinions.

 

[vacfan1982]

Thank you like I said I kept things very civil. I wanted a discussion not a fight. I'm not bashing the Kirby I've owned 2 of them. I know their good points but I also know their bad points. But no cleaner is perfect.
I know it does a good job on porous carpet but the point of this thread was to find out how it performs on a sealed carpet.[this post was last edited: 3/15/2020-14:08]

 

[huskyvacs]

The reason this thread is being reported is because vacfan1982 is putrposely instigating arguments and causing a fight in general by purposely calling out users of the site and trying to prove his ego, like certain other vacuum shop backroom lackeys posting here and trying to get people on his side to be anti-Kirby and bash anything that doesn't cost under $700 and is premium brand plastic garbage with no parts after 1 year.

Like I said earlier - the first post he made should have been a comment on Bill's YouTube video - not Vacuumland. But he purposely posted it here because he knew it would start a big fight and he is trying to get users to side with him to prove his ego is right.

He knows what he is doing and that is why he has been reported.

 

[vacfan1982]

Oh stop blowing it up out of all proportion it's a discussion about a vacuum cleaner!

Haha bashing everything that doesn't cost under $700 what are you talking about? I own premium vacuums If you read my profile you will see the vacuums I own.

I don't have a big ego when im wrong I hold my hands up unlike some on here. You're making a lot of assumptions about someone you don't know and have never met aren't you

Seems to me that it's you who is looking to start a fight[this post was last edited: 3/15/2020-15:49]

 

[mike811]

I don't get why Kirby gets so much hate from some persons. I have not seen ANYONE praising Kirby to be the best carpet cleaner. Yes it's very good, but come on. Some limit to these trolls.
Note that the airflow effects to every vacuuming job. Low airflow vacuums needs to be very near to the dirt to pick it up when the high airflow vacuum picks up the dirt from much further away.
This is what I always experience in my day to day vacuuming. With low airflow vacuum I have to see much more effort to pick up the dirt. With low airflow vacuum there is much more effort involved because you have to be very near the dirt to pick it up.
This clip shows it all:

 

[kirby519]

To each his own. More of a move to get an argument going by O.P.

No secret that many in today's world many have been brain washed into believing the Kirby has no place in today's market.

We have all seen the posts that Kirby needs to redesign it product to look and perform like today's disposable vacuums. WELL THEN IT WOULDN'T BE A KIRBY!! Make all the arguments against the Kirby as it stands today all you want. We all know today's Kirby will be out preforming any current disposable vacuum sold today.

Why you ask???? because if for no other reason. The Kirby has parts available to keep it operating well in the next decades to come. Can that be said about today's disposable vacuums. I think not!!

Many of us have read the disappointment over the fact that the one part needed to keep that "awesome" daily driver no home should be with out is suddenly dead in the water so to speak. Over a simple part that is conveniently not available as a repair part to make said daily driver usable again.

I for one as a life long Kirby enthusiast am proud that I am not to CHEAP to buy a Kirby, To DUMB to learn how to use and get the best out of a Kirby and best of all not to FRAIL or WEAK to use a Kirby.

As I have said before buy anything that suits your present need. Just don't change my Kirby!! Because I refuse to throw good money after bad for today's disposable plastic crap that doesn't perform any better than a kitchen broom.

And most importantly!! You get what you pay for!! And a fool and his money are soon parted.

Just my thoughts for the day.

 

[pr-21]

A Kirby doesn't just clean by air flow. They keep improving there brush rolls. The airflow and the brush roll


together deep clean. Also it is important to change the belt, before it starts slipping. They make a very


stiff brush roll, which I am using now.. and it grooms my carpet better than there softer brush rolls. I have


plush carpet. If you have berber carpet, you would not use this stiff brush roll.


 


 


PR-21


Bud

 

[ridgidwd0670]

4 those who say kirbys dont clean well at all probably have poorly maintained or very well worn-out kirbys or kirbys with aftermarket bags

i have classic III with original bag & aftermarket outer bag that accepts a eureka f&g bag

with the aftermarket bag the kirby height selector needs to be lowered 3 notches for good cleaning resultd

when the original bga installed the 2nd highest setting give best results (shag carpet gets pulled up close to nozzle)