How much is my ...........worth?

VacuumLand – Vintage & Modern Vacuum Enthusiasts

Help Support VacuumLand:

chill dude...

settle down Kyle, nobody is on your case or trying to get you.

You wanted to know what the Compact was worth, and this has been a nice lively discussion.

Rocket why Posh for heavens sake? I'd rather have the Compact than stare at her sour mug.
Unless of course her hubby comes with her....(cue the Jaws music)
 
Why bother when i'm right here? ;p

(thats it, i've crossed the line...Ian straight as a plank Moore is baiting the more festive members of this forum ;p lol jk)
 
Why Victoria?

I think I can answer the “why Posh” question, but first do you mind if a pick up just a little more data? And I will open this to the entire Dream Team: Ian, Pete, Jeff, Pat, Posh - can any of you cook?
 
I can make pasta not taste like cr*p ;p pot noodles are quite easy too..rice..all the simple boilable foods :P
 
well

I can answer the "Why Posh" question too... I'm not blind!!

Ian shame on you...of course I am very happily attached, so I suppose you could stand next to Mr. Posh and just be eye candy if you like.

And yes, I can cook, quite well as a matter of fact...
 
Crap

Jeff, Kyle said crap. That makes it okay for you to remove the asterisks from b**ch.

BTW, your being a good cook just confirms my instincts that a Dream Team is forming.
 
I gave my estimated price on the highest resonable price he may have gotten for it on Ebay. This was based on the description that it was complete with all tools and the hassock in near mint condition. Clearly the machine pictured is not what was described.

Kyle, refusing to post pictures of the rest of the cleaner will only hurt your credibility on this. It will only make it look as if you were not beeing honest about what you had. Iwould have been better to not post anything until you had everything togather.
 
Thank you, Reg,

..perhaps the Dream Team estimate tween $30 and $50 is more like it. It does seem like the first post has turned out to be a tease. Sigh. And we were trying to hard. Now I suppose the senior members will repeat that tired lament that it is impossible to value these things and will gather the sand bags 'round and shut us out.
But your 'take' on what might have happened with a complete machine in great shape is good information. Thanks for sharing.
 
Okay, I Charlie, have a thought on this. It is great to come up with guestimates on what anything is worth.

The reality of it is, it is worth what someone is willing to pay. As an ebay seller, I have had my thoughts on values dashed when the selling price was much lower than I had anticipated.

If you watch the vacuums, (or other applicances), sell on ebay, you will see some obscure model in somewhat ratty condition go for $500 or more. Then, a pristine model totally complete and original will go for less than $150. When is it the right place at the right time? How do you get the right buyer to see it?

Just something to think about.
 
Smile

...with all due respect, Charlie, reference to the quirkiness of ebay as an excuse for saying it is impossible to value these units is a cop out. When estimating value, we throw out the anomalous highs and lows - they are not helpful.
I was involved in a screwy case this spring where a couple of light sabre rattling goof balls bid a $17,500 property up to $91,000 - each trying to prevent the other from getting it. Reference to that silliness is not helpful in valuing the property.
A few years ago, I watched an entire roomful of dropped out bidders gaze open mouthed as two daughters of the decedent bid up an old electric train set to spite each other. So what? That train set had, and has, a fair market value and the screwiness of that auction does not establish it.
The bottom line, Charlie, is that you have the expertise to render an opinion but choose not to - like the rest of the senior club members.
That is your right but I think it disingenuous, when you have so much experience and expertise, to hide behind Aunt Tilley's skirt.
 
I have been watching this thread and enjoying all of the conversation here.

However, I am in agreement that the value in any and all of our vacuums only comes from what the buyer is willing to pay. I set limits for myself as to what I will spend for any given machine. Sometimes, as I did this week, I wanted a vacuum bad enough that I was foolish enough to pay $101.00 including shipping for that particular vacuum. Pictures will appear when the vacuum arrives.

You could go to any auction here in the mid-west and see any older vacuum go for .50 to mabey 10-12 dollars. A newer vacuum may be lucky to bring 50 - 60. There truly is no value but rather what one is willing to pay for the item. Vacuums are not like other antiques, you can't find them in price books, most people other than those of us here couldn't even tell you the age of a vacuum. My rule of thumb is generally not to pay more than the vacuum would have originally sold for. New in the box I may add 20 to that price because that is what I am willing to do.

Common sense also tells me that I am not going to go poor to collect vacuums. I appauld those who can afford to pay more and I am always just hopeful when that happens and I don't get the vacuum that hopefully it has gone to a good home. My concern is that the history of some of our great machines is saved. Or Mark in your case put to good ART!
 
Mark, I'll jump through YOUR hoops, (even though Aunt Tillie's dress is an original Coco Channel and I love hiding behind it!)

Per your wording:
I Charlie, think the fair market value of Kyle's Compact based on his description and the pictures is worth between $5.00 and $ 50.00. Disclaimer: This, "educated guess", is based on limited experience and with a very small and specialized market and should be used for discussion purposes only. You are cautioned that prices may vary incredibly.

Okay, everybody happy now?
 
Morgan,

Excellent point. I have yet to find a rating system or guide book for the pricing of vintage vacuums.

You can however, visit Kelly Blue Book and NADA to find values of vintage autos and current pricing as well. I'm sure there are other sites that provide pricing guides to other collectibles.

Vintage vacuum cleaners are probably never going to have it that cut and dried. Placing a value on them is sort of a guessing game. When Stan Kahn had his Hoover 950 on ebay, the opening bid, I think, was $600.00, (and it had a reserve as well), or therabouts. The auction ended early as someone offered what Stan wanted, (amount unknown), and then the auction was ended early.

Does that mean every 950 will get that much money? Probably not. However, it does set a precident, realistic or not. And, we all know that are professional ebay selling sites and the owners watch all these sales carefully. That is why a totally mismatched Kirby 560, with mismatched accessories will start with an opening bid of $99.99 and someone will buy it!

Then anyone of us can go to an estate sale and find a Kirby 560 in mint condition, rarely used, in the original box, with all the original accessories and buy it for $15.00.

It reminds me of car ads I see in the Antique Auto Trader. Some fool will have a 1976 Cadillac Sedan DeVille, with a grainy picture, at the wrong angle, 2nd owner, non-garaged car from the rust belt with 62,000 original miles and have the price listed at $12,000. Where in the hell does the seller come up with a number like that? Is the seller just picking a number out of the sky? Yet, all it takes is one buyer to come along and presto.........is that now the value of all 1976 Sedan DeVille's with similar criteria? Hopefully not.
 
Thanks, Charlie..

Actually, I don't think anyone is surprised that you have balls. And your contribution is very helpful - it takes out the top end silliness which should be reserved for speculators.
We really have established a reasonable range and anyone, who does not have to move the unit, can still look for the right buyer, at the right time, at a better price or just put it on ebay and see if it rings a bell.

I am curious why other senior members don't agree but maybe that should wait for a fresh thread on a fresh day.

Again, Charlie, I appreciate your willingness to participate - and I feel I can speak for the others guys who attempted good faith estimates (and Victoria) in thanking you.
 
Morgan - good formula!

Morgan, I only have a moment now and will review it more carefully later but your "rule of thumb" formula is also very helpful in the analysis. I think I like it a lot but need to scoot now.
Thanks!
 
Price Book and Stan Kahn's 950

Charlie,
Where do you think price books come from? There is no price book -- yet. But y'all are working hard at growing this club and building the market. It is premature, probably, for a bright young member to start the book because, so far, most of the the experts are sandbagging. But it is possible that that attitude will change and the experts will not feel such a need to bogart their knowledge. Frankly, if someone were so inclined, the price book could be started -- I will see if my intern has time (smile).

Regarding Stan Kahn's Hoover 950, you mixed apples and oranges. You talked about two separate value items. Item #1 was Stan Kahn's Hoover 950. Item #2 was "every 950". Again, you guys are masters at obfuscation. Everyone who knows of Mr. Kahn's collection knows you are just diddling with us by placing Mr. Kahn's machine in the same lot. Anomalous events are not counted. And you know darn well that if you would give yourself permission to speak candidly, you would have estimated Mr. Kahn's machine to go for a high price. And I believe you would admit that the price of that machine does not set the market for 950s. So your question, "Does that mean every 950 will get that much money?" is the kind of obfuscating rhetoric that spins this thread.
And I am jealous that Tania sits on your lap.
 
My god...brainwave..

how about someone creates, for the club...a PRICE BOOK :P

a very rare thing gentlemen, Ian Moore has had a genuinely good idea..
 
Price Book

Frankly, Moore from the Moors, I agree that your idea is genuinely good. However, this needs to be done very carefully - especially until we know more about the chemistry that binds the sandbaggers. I always assumed they wanted to keep picking up machines for $1.98, building their collections. You know what unhappy noises are made when someone rings the bell on ebay. If that is the case, they will feel threatened. And when people feel threatened, frankly, anything can happen.
But that may not be the case at all or may only be the case in certain cases. There may be another reason. But the fact is, they have great, and valid, information that could build the book.
So, you need to figure out the politics if you want the book to have the best data.
 
Just realized you speak like Zorg, Mark :P thumbs up indeed, thumbs up...give YOURSELF a round of applause lol

7-25-2007-17-18-9--ian88.jpg
 
Oblique reference

Ian, To use a reference that you will understand (and may leave our opponents in the dust - smile): What I am saying is that you will need to be able to ride the worm.
 
Ian,

By all means do the book! I am more than willing to be a consultant..............for a fee. Perhaps someone else will want to do a book and then my fee can be auctioned on ebay. Capitalism at it's best.

Mark,

The content of your last post, directed to me, has been discussed and consequently taken up much of the time at the last 7 conventions that I have attended. Since you were not there, you have no knowledge to refer back to. Obfuscation? Really. This group makes those kinds of comparisons even if it appears as apples to oranges to you. You haven't been to convention to know that is total truth.

Again, you have not been privy to those past lengthy conversations so your reference point is limited at best when discussing with the "senior" members.

Those that have visited me and have seen my vacuums at conventions, (again, you have seen none of my vacuums at conventions or at mini-meets so point of reference does not exist), would openly state that my vaccums are of the same quality or better than Stan's. So, is my point of reference based on seeing Stan's or my own? Or on seeing anyone else's or what I see on ebay?

Would a buyer pay the same for my Hoover 150, all original, (except bag), down to the box, or a 150 on ebay with a replaced cord, brushroll, bag, switch, etc. This makes the divide large in opinion and dollars spent.

And, who has decided that Stan has the definitive vacuums or the definitive collection? I still contend this is a guessing game on some level and whoever has the most money generally wins when it is a, "holy grail", vacuum and again, who has made the decision of what, "holy grail", vacuums are. Charles Lester and other longtime members have discussed for years on forums, emails, snail mail, newsletters, etc. Again, could this have been perhaps before you were a member so we are coming from another place?

I like the fact that it is generating so much discussion and passion. However, this will be my last post on this as you have your thoughts as others, including me, have mine.

We could discuss this till the cows come home and then some and probably agree on a lot and probably agree to disagree and almost an equal number of things as well.

Now, as for sitting on Tania'a lap, I may be putting that up for bids on ebay............care to suggest an opening bid?
 
Oh no I couldn't do the book, not got the patience for that kinda stuff ;p but anyone here can use the idea.
 
like the flippin' energizer bunny

This just keeps going...

Ok Mark, SPLAIN THIS: a couple years back I had a brand new never used Hoover DUAL VOLTAGE Convertible. Rare machine by any standard...
I was not that attached to it so I put it on ebay, and it sold for a whopping $49!
That was the market...
There can't be any set value for these machines, its too subjective...
 
Well, Jeff...

Tell me, Jeff. What do you think it is worth?

I don't even know what a Hoover dual voltage convertable is. But, let me work with you. At this point, I don't have your opinion (which I would probably value - even though I am going to have to give you a good wupping in September.) Also, I know that ebay can be wiggy. However, I won't sandbag you - about this. So....
I, Mark, think the fair market value of that machine is between $25.00 and $ 75.00. Disclaimer: This, "educated guess", is based on limited experience and with a very small and specialized market and should be used for discussion purposes only. You are cautioned that prices may vary incredibly.

I did the best I could with the data I had dropping 50% and adding 50% to determine the range.
 
Now that was trippy

Charlie:
My comments in post #17124 apparently resulted in you feeling a need to put me in my place – having not attended conventions and engaged in the discussions over the years. Then, you bristled a bit at my implication that Mr. Kahn’s 950 might be a special cleaner or that his collection might be special. That seemed to bother you because you emphasized that your vacuums “…are of the same quality or better than Stan's.” Later you quipped, “And, who has decided that Stan has the definitive vacuums or the definitive collection?” Garsh, lighten up, flyboy. It’s okay, Charlie, really, I am sure your cleaners are wonderful. I would be the last person to suggest Mr. Kahn’s machines are better than yours. (Actually, I would flip a coin with Ian to see who could be the last). And, I didn’t make that suggestion.

But, for the record, you were not talking about your collection in thread #17109. You were talking about Mr. Kahn’s 950 on the one hand, and “every 950” on the other. And if you are saying you have a 950 and you are saying your 950 is better than Stan’s, then, as was the case with Mr. Kahn’s machine, I suspect that you would think that if you let it be known that your 950 is for sale you would expect a decent/high price and wouldn’t be talking $5 to $50. What’s the problem?

Now, I do agree, as you contend, that it is a guessing game. And that is all an appraisal is, a guess. A decent guess. an educated guess, but a guess. It seems like y’all are saying something like, “Why, son, that would be guessing. Surely you cannot expect men of our stature to guess?” What have you got against guessing games?

[Premise #1]: My point has only, and continues to be, that we can pick a date (i.e. date of death) and value anything as of that date. Some values will be more accurate or more reliable than others, but commerce and taxation mandate that we cannot say it can’t be done. I don’t know squat, and don’t need to know squat, about Stan’s or your vacuums. You can put me in my place all you like for my lack of history and lack of experience with vacs or the club – but I still can’t tell the IRS examiner, “Gee, guy, the board of directors said that would be guessing and, well, ….”

But let’s leave the Fed out of it. [Premise #2]: (And this premise is not as solid as premise #1) There is an unwritten policy among our seniors that opinions of value will be avoided - which is what I suggested to Kyle in post #16544 (a couple of hundred posts ago).

In my culture, you can say, “C’mon, best guess?” And get a thoughtful answer.

Ian:
Recall, my good man, the warning in post #17129? You are wise to withdraw.
 
...and another thing (smile).

Loose Definition: For purposes this post I will use the term “senior members” (of the club). This reference has exceptions, of course, and there are those who don’t participate at all (so we just don’t know their position on this topic).

Here Goes: Note my premises in post #17160 above, I feel obliged to state that “off thread” communications have caused me to modify somewhat premise #2. First, I will restate the premises:

Premise #1: Vintage cleaners have a fair market value as of any given date.

Premise #2: Senior club members seem to have a policy against sharing their opinion of that value. [Premise #1 appears to be solid, and validated; premise #2 will be adjusted below].

A review of the postings shows an almost vehement consensus of senior members that an opinion of the value of a machine is impossible to render because it is “only worth what a buyer will pay.” Of course I reject that and so does the IRS.

BUT GET THIS: At the same time that senior members are giving us that tired old Aunt Tilley saw that vintage machines are unable to be valued, A TOTAL STRANGER IS PROVIDED, “OFF THREAD,” A GOOD FAITH ESTIMATE OF THE VALUE OF A MACHINE BY A SENIOR MEMBER AND THAT VALUATION/RESPONSE WAS SHARED WITH OTHER MEMBERS “OFF THREAD.” An off-thread stranger to the club was given a studied, honest, thoughtful, even eloquent, response, including a tight “range” of value and a cautionary reference to the wiggy things that can happen on value. In other words, the response was virtually in the “form” that I provided on this thread only with a lot more words.

Therefore, Premise #2 should probably be modified to include the words “on thread.” This would be the modified Premise #2:

Premise #2: Senior club members seem to have a policy against sharing their opinion of value “on thread” but some will consider sharing such information in limited situations “off thread.”

Where are we? Recall where we started. Kyle asked for a value, I said the machine could be valued, but wouldn’t be. I then modified the exercise (to avoid the excuse of no good pics) to move it to a hypothetical vac which was as Kyle described (to obviate the need of pics) and included plenty of hedge. It appears that Premise #1 and Premise #2 (as modified) have been proven. That seems to be where we are.

OFF THREAD STUFF: But I have an aside about “off thread.” I presume there are people who tune in to these discussions and take them at face value, contributing posts or not. That was always my approach. Then, a couple of times, during the “other club break-out” and the computer geek “break-in” adventures I started to become aware that there was a parallel universe of off-thread stuff.

Now, it makes sense, in any club, that people form relationships and communicate with select or limited groups off thread. That is the upside. The downside is that it also seems that is where people get in trouble.

I was only tuned “on thread” here but then people started providing me with a lot of ‘off thread’ input, goading, discouragement, encouragement or whatever. Yikes, there I was in that insidious parallel universe. I was given tips on personality clashes, motivation, etc. I was provided data from sources not permitted on this site. I was chastised by seniors. And it was most unclear what I could/should use and what was covered by some ethic discouraging on thread use. I would be given stuff that seemed clearly intended to be included by me “on thread” but in some cases I could not be certain of that, and then there was the quandary of identity disclosure vs. content disclosure. I chose to keep the identities undisclosed and use little of the data. (The above disclosure of an estimate given to a stranger is an example of data I chose to use for the obvious reason of its clear relevancy).

I think “off thread” can be a squirrely universe. There can be good data and some friendly chuckles; on the other hand, it can be an insidious, backstabbing world.

Y’all take care.
 
Unavailable for your Questions

Ref. Post #16806, I will be out of the loop for a time but will answer all you posts when I again have access.
Anyway, BACK TO THE TOP!
Oops, wrong thread, Sorry, Charlie (smile).
 
"Share and Enjoy" is, of course, the company motto of the hugely successful Sirius Cybernetics Corporation Complaints division, which now covers the major land masses of three medium sized planets and is the only part of the Corporation to have shown a consistent profit in recent years.

The lyrics to the company song are as follows:

Share and Enjoy
Share and Enjoy
Journey through life
With a plastic boy
Or Girl by your side
Let your pal be your guide
And when it breaks down
Or starts to annoy
Or grinds when it moves
And gives you no joy
Cos it's eaten your hat
Or had sex with your cat
Bled oil on your floor
Or ripped off your door
You get to the point
You can't stand any more
Bring it to us, we won't give a fig
We'll tell you, 'Go stick your head in a pig'.


with thanks to Douglas Adams :p
 

Latest posts

Back
Top