Hoover Windtunnel dirt cup problems

[sptyks]

Fact vs Fiction...

<p class="MsoNormal">Niclonnic: most everything you believe about bagless vacuum cleaners is incorrect.  There are at least three misconceptions about bagless vacuum cleaners, so I will try to correct them here.</p>
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<p class="MsoListParagraphCxSpFirst" style="text-indent: -.25in; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo1;"><!--[if !supportLists]-->1.<span style="font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman';">      </span>1. Bagged vacuum cleaners lose suction as the bag fills up.  This was true about the early paper bags in the older bagged vacuum cleaners.  However today’s modern bagged vacuum cleaners use a synthetic type of cloth bag which does not have pores that can clog up with dust.  These bags also provide HEPA filtration so the vacuum cleaner cleans the air as you vacuum.  I have proven this with my Kirby Sentria which uses this new type of cloth bag.  I have a Baird air flow meter which is used to measure the suction and airflow of any vacuum cleaner.  My Kirby Sentria reads a 7 ½ out of 10 with the air flow meter connected to the hose with an empty bag.  When the bag is ¾ full the reading on the air flow meter  is just under  7.  So you see hardly any suction or airflow is lost even when the bag is ¾ full.</p>
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<p class="MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle" style="text-indent: -.25in; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo1;"><!--[if !supportLists]-->2.<span style="font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman';">    </span><!--[endif]-->2. Bags are expensive to buy.   Actually in the long run, the filters in Bagless vacuums cost much more to replace than bags.  Some of these filters can cost more than $40.00.  However a six pack of cloth HEPA filter bags for my Sentria costs about $18.00.  This is enough bags to last me for two years of normal vacuuming.  I can vacuum my home for 3 to 4 months before needing to replace the bag.</p>
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<p class="MsoListParagraphCxSpLast" style="text-indent: -.25in; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo1;"><!--[if !supportLists]-->3.<span style="font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman';">    </span>3. Dust flies out of the bag when it is being changed.  The fact is almost all of the bags used in newer bagged vacuum cleaners have a flap that closes over the opening of the bag as it is being removed from the cleaner which prevents any dust or dirt to escape from the bag during disposal.  You just drop it in the trash bin and that’s it. Therefore replacing the bag is a much cleaner process than emptying the dirt cup on a bagless vac.</p>

 

[madabouthoovers]

Stan - I don't think Niclonnic is actually listening to anything anyone has to say against his bagless machines. Most young people know no better as they have been brought up around bagless vacs. Its only the older generation that appreciate the benefits of bagged, before James Dyson came on the scene, and started his media brainwashing against bagged machines. The fact that Niclonnic is so devoted to his bagless machines shows how effective Dyson marketing has been over the last 20 years. I don't think anything we say will change his mind, so its best to let him get on with enjoying his bagless machines, while we carry on enjoying our bagged machines.

 

[sptyks]

Steve: I am starting to believe what you said about Niclonnic. He has definitely been BRAINWASHED by Mr. Dyson so I will not try to persuade him any further on this thread.


 

 

[madabouthoovers]

I will admit though that I was brainwashed by Dyson too, buying my first brand new Dyson DC07 in 2002, which replaced a Hoover bagged Turbopower 3. I replaced the DC07 in 2006 for a DC15, again swallowing all the hype about the "ball" which was all new and the latest technology blah blah blah. Its only in the last few years that I've gone right off Dyson, and seen through his marketing spin. Whilst I still own 7 early Dysons in my collection, I will not be buying any more. I have decided to go back to bags in a big way, and no more of this "made in the Far East" nonsense either. I simply will not waste any more of my money on cheap rubbish, and will more than likely be selling off most of my TTI machines in the future as they are now all in the attic not getting used, just like my Dysons.

 

[sebo_fan]

One other issue I have, and its not just with Dyson but with quite a few upright vacs is that they don't clean flat to the floor.

Even if the soft bags drag on the floor, a vintage Hoover Senior or Junior can happily get under a low bed. Not so with Dyson or modern bagless uprights where the round bin gets in the way. Its all well having a slim floor head but if the rest of the vacuum isn't slim and thin enough to get under low furniture ALL THE WAY, its hardly the way forward.

Also the more I get older, the less I'm likely to put up with high motor noise.

The only bagless upright I can think of that has so far managed it has been my "vintage" 1990s Electrolux Cyclone PowerLite (sold in the U.S under the Eureka Super Lite name)

 

[super-sweeper]

You almost feel bad for the guy-

Our attempts to show him the ease and joy of a bagged vacuum have proved futile. Dirt certainly does not "Fly out" of the top-loading bag-less machines, at least on the quality bagless models, such as Fantom. What makes you think a bottom-opening bagless bin won't spew dirt everywhere upon being opened over a trash bin?

 

[sebo_fan]

Im puzzled - what do you mean top loading bagless vacs?

 

[niclonnic]

Well...

Sptyks, those are some interesting facts.

As a boy who grew up in the late 90s/early 2000s, (I'm 19 now), I am more familiar with bagless vacuums. Around the late 90s (I think. I was too young to even remember any of this), my parents were "brainwashed" by Fantom after seeing an infomercial about it. They ordered one and used it for a few years in my old apartment. Since then, after moving into my new house, we picked up a few brands of bagless vacuums over the years (Dirt Devil, Bissell, Dyson). So the bagless marketing was effective!

We all have our likes and dislikes. I honestly don't hate bagged vacuums, it's just that I love bagless and some of you guys like bags. Bagged machines have their uses, and are very good in their own right.

Sebo_fan, I agree with you. I can't really get under anything with my vacuums. But that's no big deal, since I don't vacuum under beds or low furnishings anyway. Dyson did make a "low reach floor tool" and packed it in with some of their vacuums in the past. That tool is nice, but it utilizes straight suction.

SUPER_SWEEPER, it helps if you start with an empty trash bag. Then you must hold the canister down into the trash can and open the bottom flap. This way, the dust doesn't make a mess all over.

 

[tolivac]

Just something to say here-not being mean---but if you use a bagless vacuum no matter what brand--and dump its bin into a trash bag---well you end up using BAGS after all-why not just have the vacuum put the dust into the bag to begin with?Only bagless machines I use are my Water Matic canister and a Rainbow.The WaterMatics been gets slurped out by my NSS M1 and into its giant disposable bag.The Rainbow water bin gets dumpted outside into the plant bed--so the dirt goes outside.If the Rainbow ingested a bit of paper or carpet fluff-pick that out and put it in the trash.

 

[madabouthoovers]

Maybe Niclonnic thinks that regular trash bags for his trash can cost much less than vacuum bags, so it saving him money? Bagless is fine if you like to maintain the vac more yourself by washing its filters, and replacing them when advised in the instructions, and also like to get your hands in all the dirt when its emptying time, as usually much of the dirt gets trapped between the bin and the cyclone sieve assembly. I can live with bagless, but my personal preference is I don't mind paying £10 a year ($17) for a pack of dustbags, many of which contain the filters you need too.


 


Don't forget that the savings in bags is usually negated by the fact that a bagless vac is more expensive than a bagged vac an many cases, and that bagless vacs like Bissell are deliberately designed to allow small amounts of dirt to get round the gasket-less pre-motor filter (which is washable) to soil the post motor filter (which is not washable and must be replaced - at a cost, usually quite a high cost too). Obviously Niclonnic believes that all these extra costs associated with an average bagless and all the extra maintenance and hassle are still less than a $17 a year pack of dustbags. As long as Niclonnic is happy with this state of affairs, that's the main thing.


 


Just wondering if Americans actually use trash bags in their outdoor trash cans? in the UK, most of us don't.

[this post was last edited: 5/30/2014-07:24]

 

[joshdonnell]

He likes bagless vacuums so i think we need to leave him alone about.

 

[madabouthoovers]

joshdonnell - I see you own a Miele Capricorn - now that IS a quality machine, someone with very good taste in vacs. I have the UK equivalent

 

[super-sweeper]

MadaboutHoovers-

No-Us Americas use a disposable bag (Ring a bell-Niclonic?) in our indoor bins, then deposit the full bag into a outdoor can-which is usally set to the curb on a set date for collection.


 


Fantom couldn't brain-wash a cat (Cats are fun). The Fantom was a great vacuum, your parents made an excellant choice in home cleaning. It would be cleaning carpets to this day if your parent's didn't replace it (Many Fantoms still are). That Fantom left a impression on your parents. The Fantom was easy to maintain, a great bagless design. This same impression they implied to the cheaper Dirt Devil and Hoovers of your average big-chain super store (Let's say WAL-MART!). This was a mistake. There is a huge diffrence between the Fantom (Or Amway) to modern bagless cleaners. The Fantom had the cyclones, the filtering power, the cleaning power. The Cheaper models had a paper filter. You've needed those couple of cheaper vacuums you have "Picked up" in the Fantom's absence. I doubt the carpet has been any cleaner since the Fantom was replaced. There is no other bagless that could've topped, nor match that Fantom of which is on the market today. The Hoover above is a Honda in terms of Bagless technology, where the Fantom and Amway crowd are the Rolls Royce of bagless. Go out to a thrift store or garage sale, and find a Fantom, You'll never need another bagless again!


 


wheter you like it or not, you will have to replace a filter in a bagless machine, or a bag in a bagged machine. If you bought a bagless to "Save money" as so many consumers have been lead in to, expect to break out the check book!

 

[floor-a-matic]

<span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">Or U can go for a Hoover Savvy; U can use it either bagged or bagless.  Maybe even a Filter Queen?</span>


 


<span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">Bagless vacuums should NOT have bottom that can open; the old Fantom Fury, Lightning & Thunder had a solid dirt cup bottom</span>

[this post was last edited: 5/30/2014-23:16]

 

[niclonnic]

In the end...

Yes, I use trash bags in all of my indoor trash cans. My parents always buy the Kirkland Signature white kitchen bags from Costco. They only cost $18 for a box of 200 bags. For the smaller bins, in the laundry room, bathrooms and bedrooms, I use regular plastic shopping bags.

On my Bissell Cleanview, when I had it, it also had an issue where dust got to the pre-motor filter. Luckily, all three filters on that vacuum were washable, so we didn't have to keep buying replacements. And yes, I know full well how to keep a vacuum cleaner healthy.

Joshdonnell, I am a total bagless fan, and would like to not be persuaded into buying a bagged vacuum, or any high-end machine from a brand I've never heard of.

Madabouthoovers, that Miele vacuum looks really nice! How well do Miele's work?

Super_sweeper, I do the exact same thing at my house. You were exactly right; when we got the Fantom, it was THE vacuum to buy. It was so wicked! While my Fantom Fury is long gone, we are still avid users of bagless vacuums. Fantoms are getting rare these days. I'm still looking for one. It would be a shock if I found one at Goodwill, a thrift store, a garage sale, etc. If I found one, I would buy it right away, then cross my fingers and hope it works.

With my Dyson, I haven't had to buy a single replacement part for it over the 6.5 years I've owned it.

Floor-a-matic, I remember seeing the Hoover Savvy on the Hoover website back in the day. I didn't pay much attention to it, though. And no, I've never heard of Filter Queen.

The reason why bottom-open dirt cups were invented was so that the dirt could be disposed of in a more hygienic way.

 

[tolivac]

Often in the US the large plastic trash bag is put on the curb for the trashman to pick up and throw into the truck.The neat thing about the plastic trash bags is the POP or whistling sounds they make as they go thru the compactor.At where I dump my trash have the attendent run the compactor there to hear the bags pop and whistle.And if a can is used the bag is put inside.This works good on trash routes that have auto load trash trucks.Besides vacuums--I also like trash trucks-unfortunatly they are too big and expensive to collect.

 

[sebo_fan]

I am slightly puzzled about how the U.S recycle household waste IF liner bags are put in trash cans or as we know the term, refuse bins. If the bins are lined, are they lined with special bags that decompose quickly over time compared to average Polythene bags - otherwise what would the point be? I love the idea of dumping my refuse into another bag in my bin - it would minimise the yearly clean out that I do on my wheelie bins.

Niclonnic - Miele vacuums are very well designed and some models are better built in my opinion. I have owned a few models over the years but unlike the U.S or Canada markets, our Miele vacuums go by the model number and very rarely a unique name such as the S4 Carina, which is a U.S model.

I have owned quite a few Miele vacuums, mostly canisters but also the S7 upright and now have a new S8 Ecoline model. They are beautifully made, but the later current ones have thinner plastics than the heavier S500 and S300 models I had back in the 1990s. They're not as well built as SEBO canisters though they are slightly quieter than SEBO and Miele offer a lot of optional cost accessories that at times are a mix of helpful to not that essential.

 

[sebo_fan]

Forgot to add that I also find Miele vacuums can be expensive to run - the company only have 4 dust bags in a box compared to almost double the quantity you get with SEBO.

 

[madabouthoovers]

Trash Cans and Trash Bags

Most people in the UK do use liners in INDOOR trash cans, because it makes it easier to transfer the trash to the outdoor trash can. In the UK we have very strict and rigid re-cycling of trash rules, and many homes have more than 1 outdoor trash can. We have 1 for recyclable trash like glass, plastic bottles, cardboard, and tin cans. We have another for non-re-cyclables, like babys disposable diapers, the contents of our vacuum cleaners, cat litter, dog waste and other trash that goes to land fill sites. And we usually have another trash box for paper. Many homes also have a trash can for garden waste. As these trash cans get dumped directly into the trash wagon, we never use liners in them, and many people employ a service to come round from time to time to wash the trash cans.


Trash cans have now become a menace in many neighborhoods, as there are just so many of them, and they blight the look of the streets.

 

[sebo_fan]

In Scotland dependent on the region there are only two types of bin found outside the home - general refuse and a separate bin for recycling paper. Only some selected areas that don't have a nearby landfill site usually have 4 or 5 different bins or if that area is in a heritage trust protected site. Same goes with some parts of England.