HOOVER Ranger Broken Down...

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Ok i checked my Hoover instruction manual and it says connect to a 13amp plug fused at 3amp so Twocybloke you were right enough and i will change my fuses. i think the cunfusion is with the plug if it does say 13amp on it doesnt mean that you have to put a 13amp fuse in it as was said earlier.
Anyway its good to learn something new everyday
 
The plugs are rated as being suitable for Up-to 13 Amps, that's where a lot of people make the incorrect assumption that you must fit a 13 Amp fuse, hence why I said there's a lack of education about the simple fuse ratings and what they can supply up to before blowing...
 
Well I checked my Electrolux and to my surprise it has a 3 Amp fuse in it! I could swear I saw a 13 Amp one when I last had the plug open... Must be my memory failing!

As for the Ranger, I went up 5 minutes ago and fitted an old 3 Amp fuse I found in my cupboard, so hopefully it hasn't already blown. I'll find out next time I go to use it, but providing it hasn't blown, all is electrically safe there!

As for the other cleaners with 13 Amp fuses fitted, I'm going to leave them as they are, as I read on a couple of sites that the standard rule of thumb is 3 Amp for under 700W and 13 Amp for over 700W.
 
Electrolux

Whilst I agree with 2cvbloke in general, older Electrolux 90/100/310/330/345 models actually do need a 13amp fuse - they will blow a 3 amp. Dont ask me why, it may have to do with a surge on startup. Some later versions lower range models (80 for example which started at 400W but ended up at 550W) which had uprated motors may also be the same

vacbear58++12-20-2011-14-23-44.jpg
 
Yeesh, "It should be fitted with a 13 Amp fuse", talk about a serious design flaw, it's probably a good thing I don't really like older euro-design Electrolux vacs, even my 600w Electrolux Sanitaire ZC-880 and Electrolux C12 are both fine with a 3 Amp fuse in the plug.... :S

Might aswell just stick a Million Amp Drillbit fuse in there for all the good it'd do in the event of a fault...

twocvbloke++12-20-2011-21-50-14.jpg
 
I knew I was unlucky, but not this unlucky!

After only vacuuming half of my bedroom an hour ago, I heard a "bang" and heard the dreaded high pitched noise that comes from a motor spinning freely!

Needless to say I took the belt cover off to find it snapped in half.

One problem after another!

I've ordered a pack of two new belts from eBay, so when they arrive I'll be back in business.

But man, how unlucky... The belt was only about a month old too!
 
Re: Fuses..

What you need to bear in mind when fitting fuses on vacuums is that the motor can draw a high initial current on start up, so the 3 amp fuse may not be suitable. This is especially the case if you use the attachments on the senior, which boosts the motor power.

Hoover used to recommend a 5 amp fuse on the Hoover Junior 1354 for this reason (current surge). I would not be inclined to use a 3 amp fuse on the Senior, since it is likely to blow if used on tools. This happened to me at Al's with Seamus's Hoover Convertible, albeit a 110 volt imported machine. I only had a 5 amp fuse in the transformer and it took it out when powered up on tools. To be honest I'm not sure if the wattage on this compared with the UK 240 volt model; the current draw may be a bit higher?

In many cases 13 amp fuse are fitted since 3 and 13 amp are the common sizes in the UK. I know what you mean about protection..but remember that you are protecting the cable, more so than the appliance. eg if you used a table light flex on a fire with a 13 amp fuse then the cable would set on fire. This is not likely to be a problem on your ranger, since a dead short on the cable or machine will take the fuse out. Just make sure that you use a suitable 2 core cable. 0.75mm 2 core is more than adequate for up to 6 amps. I would expect the Senior to take roughly 1.7 amps under no load when set up without tools (400 watts), approx 400/230 and 2.6 amps with tools. However, it could be 2 or 3 times this amount when switched on!


Stephen
 
I have just checked..

the recommended rating for the 6525C Senior and it is 13 Amp..so DO NOT use a 3 amp fuse on the U4002/4014 Ranger; it is NOT suitable, due to high start-up current!

The standard motor fitted will not draw more than between about 1.7 and 2.6 amps under normal running conditions but it will briefly be somewhat more than this on start-up. However, if a 6 amp cable is fitted this is more than adequate to cope with the load, unlike a 3 Kilowatt fire with a 3 amp cable and 13 amp fuse, which will draw more than 12 amps under normal running and set the cable on fire.

Whilst wishing to guard against the possiblity of more current being drawn in the event of a short circuit fault, what usually happens is that there is a dead short, the current drawn is much greater than the value of the fuse..but only for a short duration and this will take it out whether 3 or 13 amp regardless of motor power.

Stephen
 
I use 3 Amp fuses in my two Juniors, neither one has popped, and the Senior 652A I had I put a 3 Amp fuse in the plug and it never popped, I think the documentation recommending the higher rating fuses is long out of date, heck, even a fully qualified electrical engineer I know states that using those higher ratings on such small motors is completely wrong, and I'd rather defer to their knowledge than "what Hoover recommends"...
 
Well, I put that 3 Amp fuse in the Senior as I said, and it blew on start up!

Looks like Stephen was right.

I've put the 13 Amp fuse back in now.
 
There you go!..or should I say, there you blow...

Of Course, there is no harm in trying the lower rating of fuse but I doubt you will get away with it for long.

I might happen to mention that I do have 17th Edition Regs and also used to run a vac shop for 10 years. Sometimes, machines came in that didn't work with a fuse rating that was unsuitable. The only machine I can remember having a 3 amp fuse fitted as standard wasn't a vacuum but the relatively low powered Qualcast Concorde Lawnmower. Some of these only had a 280 watt motor and seemed to work ok with this fuse.

You also need to try moving the 2 speed switch where the tools fit in to see whether boosting the power blows the smaller fuse. You don't need the convertor to do this, just something to activate the lever. Try holding it in before pressing the power switch, again when it's running. I expect it's more likely to go at start up.

Stephen
 
I'd personally say a 3a fuse is inadequate for a two speed Senior, as the maximum wattage of the motor at 650 watts may cause the inrush current to be higher than the 720 watts a 3a fuse can take. But it is good practice to keep the fuse as low rated as possible. I run my Seniors on a 5a fuse - which I understand weren't in general use when the machine was current, with only 3 and 13 amp fuses in general use.

Many years back I was using a Dirtsearcher Junior, which suddenly cut out. I changed the fuse, but to a 13 amp one. Carried on cleaning, until there was a big BANG!, a few sparks flew out of the lamp cover and the electrics tripped. Turned out that there was a short in the lamp housing. The smaller fuse blew so fast it was like turning the machine off, the larger one caused drama! As Stephen says, in the event of a short, the fault will draw way more than 13 amps, blowing the fuse quickly anyway.

One thing this thread shows is that it's always a good idea to check the inside of a plug on old things if it wasn't moulded onto the cable. I work in PAT testing, and at least a fifth of items I inspect with plugs fitted by the consumer have some sort of fault. Wrong fuse, loose terminals, missing earth, I've seen enough to make me very cautious!

Jamie, your Senior was a fire risk if only a couple of stands of wire were connected to the live terminal of the plug. If, say, three quarters of the strands aren't connected it means that the connected ones are carrying four times the current they were meant to. This causes resistance, which in turn generates heat. The picture below was a plug powering an extension lead that I came across on a job. The live terminal was loose rather than missing connected strands, but it had a similar effect of generating resistance and heat - you can see the scorching round the terminal where it got hot!

Simon

74simon++12-28-2011-09-26-59.jpg
 
Whoa... Thank God I noticed it then!

I always check my plugs every couple of months to make sure the wires are all securely fitted and nothing is amiss, but I didn't check the Ranger's plug as I'd just bought it. I should have though.
 
What an interesting debate! Though i note the comments about a fire and all that go with it, I never did hear of such a thing from a vacuum cleaner. It is one of those things which could happen, but probably never did.

That said...I would always put 5 amp fuses in the cleaners I was repairing, sometimes a 3 amp if I could be sure it would handle it. As a rule, I found that Electrolux motors up to 550 watts would be fine on a 3 amp. The Hoover turbopower always used to say a 3 amp and I am sure the Turbomaster ran quite happily on such a fuse too. Electrolux always said 5 amp back in the day, but this changed around about the time the 100 was built. As per the instructions scanned here.

However all this talk of fuses passed the manufacturers by and most have always reccomended 13amp in any vacuum cleaner. What I find most in appropriate now is that for several years many new small appliances have beem fitted with 0.50mm flex and still have 13amp fuses. Things like hair curlers and tin openers. It is almost as though the fuse has no role to play in the current wiring. I suppose to some extent it hasn't now that so many buildings have RCD's. But then, so many don't.
 

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