GE motors in Kirby D50?

[texaskirbyguy]

Received my second D50 parts unit from ebay, another total junker that was improperly packed.
During testing, I got the following with no bag or intake attachment, which were reasonable compared to another D50 I tested...
No fan-
Low speed: 2.05A, 19200 RPM
High speed: 3.24A, 20106 RPM

Now with fan, this thing just about blew itself right of the workbench.
Low speed: 4.7A, 10800 RPM
High speed: 7.6A, 13500 RPM

Rated current is 5A, so with fan it is drawing too much on high, and probably on low as well. Very minimal normal sparking at commutator at all times but some dark streaks on the comm. I cleaned it up a bit since.

One oddity is that I see the GE logo and 'HAB' (or 'HAR') on the armature with part number 56A45FN27 (at least that is how it looks; I did not want to force the wires to move).
So far I have not seen a GE motor in a Kirby. Any thoughts on this? Is this a replacement, perhaps?

 

[vacuumlad1650]

I might be wrong, but the Armature may have been re-wound using GE parts? Just a guess.
A

 

[kirbyclassiciii]

texaskirbyguy

Rob,

If you ever need a new armature and/or field, order part numbers 114967 and/or 103967 respectively, but supplies are limited!

~Ben

 

[oreck_xl]

I read on VacuumLand that Black & Decker motors were used in older Kirbys. Does anyone know when they stopped?

 

[kirbyclassiciii]

Oreck_XL

Hershel,

That was after Black & Decker sold its household motor business to Lamb Motors... which reminds me, did Kirby ever use any Lamb fields and armatures in the early '60s?

~Ben

 

[kirbysthebest]

Black & Decker

If I am not mistaking, wasn't there a relationship between Black and Decker and GE? Edited: Actually B&D bought GE small appliance division. This may be the link to GE the OP posted. [this post was last edited: 4/19/2017-11:29]

 

[dysonman1]

When the Old VCCC went to the Kirby factory, back then the G5 was the new model, I specifically asked about the armatures and field coils, since the assembly line was taking them out of cardboard boxes and installing them. The Kirby Company at that time did NOT wind their own armatures and coils, but purchased them from a manufacturer (they did not share who that manufacturer was). It's possible that GE was the manufacturer during the Dual 50's run, as GE would make the armatures and coils for Bison just a couple of years later. GE and Black & Decker had no relationship. Black & Decker bought Air-Way's motor manufacturing plant back when Hoover sued Air-Way over the beater bars patent infringement (in retaliation for Air-Way suing Hoover for using their patented disposable bag). Black and Decker made coils and armatures for other manufacturers, like Rexair, before designing a 'drop in' motor (as used by Filtex and Modern Hygiene (Royal). Black & Decker sold out to Lamb (Ametek) in the late 1940's.

 

[kirbysthebest]

No relationship

G.E. To Sell Unit To Black & Decker

Published: December 17, 1983



The General Electric Company said yesterday that it had signed an agreement in principle to sell its small-appliance business to the Black & Decker Manufacturing Company for about $300 million in cash and notes.

G.E. said that segment of its business should have sales of more than $470 million this year, about 2 percent of G.E.'s overall sales.

It includes such products as toasters, toaster ovens, coffee makers, food processors, juicers, electric can openers, irons and hair dryers.

The transaction, which does not include G.E.'s audio electronics, video, lighting or large appliance products, did not come as a surprise, since G.E. has decided to focus its resources on its large-scale consumer businesses.

Paul W. Van Orden, a G.E. executive vice president and sector executive in charge of consumer products, said G.E. believes it can better apply its technological and financial muscle in the large-scale consumer businesses.

Black & Decker, a major maker of home power tools and equipment that is based in Towson, Md., recently underwent a corporate restructuring that has led to a greater emphasis on household items. Laurence J. Farley, the company's president and chief executive, said the acquisition should help in the company's effort to diversify its home products. The sale includes G.E. plants in Brockport, N.Y.; Allentown, Pa., and Asheboro, N.C., as well as G.E.'s housewares business in Canada, Brazil, Mexico and the housewares manufacturing facility in Singapore. About 8,500 G.E. workers, 3,500 of whom are employed at facilities in the United States, are affected by the sale.

The agreement specifies that Black & Decker can continue to use the G.E. brand on G.E. appliances currently in the housewares line for three years, after which they will carry the Black & Decker name.

 

[kirbyclassiciii]

KirbystheBest

Harley,

GE also sold its outdoor products division in Canada to Black & Decker, because when I looked up electric mowers on Kijiji (Canada's equivalent to eBay/Craigslist), I found pictures of CGE mowers with the B&D badging.

~Ben

 

[kirbysthebest]

Yes, I believe it says in the article Canada, Brazil, Mexico, Singapore.

 

[kirbylux77]

Thank you for publishing that article, Harley.

I guess the flaming fairy gay queen in Missouri who runs his own Vacuum Museum to show off his own personal collection, supported by a manufacturer, doesn't know *everything* about vacuums!

Rob

 

[dysonman1]

General Electric and Black & Decker (the maker of vacuum cleaner motors - which became Lamb Electric) had no relationship. You've posted a 1983 article, when in fact, Black & Decker had sold to Ametek decades before. Totally different thing.

 

[kirbysthebest]

Just posted

Because I had seen a relationship between GE and B&D before. Companies buy and sell all the time. Have agreements to manufacture and distribute. They sue and form partnerships. The general public just doesn't know.

I was not around in 1940s so you would know better than I. 1983, wouldn't that have been around the time the still current VCCC was chartered? Maybe we can find out from one of the founders, Alex Tabor.

 

[gottahaveahoove]

yes, that is true.

There's a great story about how the one and only V.C.C.C. began. It was John Lucia and Alex who began it.... starting at the Hoover Company. Stacey Krammes welcomed them and it all took off after that.
I wasn't a member then, but, I can provide very public info about its inception.
According the the club's historical documentation, it began there and is still alive and well. I've never seen any files about an old one, and, later, a new one.
All of this info can be obtained... minutes of all meetings are still kept for members to see.
I hope this clears up some of the many misconceptions. Others know far more than I do.

 

[caligula]

The V.C.C.C.C began January 2, 1983 and still going strong.

Thank you John:

The Vacuum Cleaner Collector's Club began on January 2, 1983 and 34 years later is still alive and well.

You are absolutely correct, there was never a day that it didn't exist. Also let me assure you, every feature used today has been in place since the first meeting which was held in my mom's family room in Chesterton, Indiana. That was the weekend of May 4, 5, and 6, 1985. Business meeting, outing to see a vacuum shop which that year was The Henry Company, repair seminar, on an Electrolux 1205, banquet and awards. The only change was that in 85 we ended the meeting with the business talk as we used it to establish the rules and procedures. Three months later in August I bought a house in Naperville, Illinois and made that the official club headquarters until I relocated to California in 95. We even had a club mascot, my cat Caligula (shown above) which is now my username in his memory. That location was perfect as there was a motel on my corner called The Stardust, a Dunkin Donuts right down the street so I could provide breakfast for everybody, a family restaurant called Grandma Sally's and we held every banquet at a place called Rascal's from May 86 till May 93. As to the meetings in 94, we returned to our birthplace The Hoover Historical Center, and in 95 were guests of the Vac-Hunter, Bob Kautzman. It was also that weekend that I got approved for my new house and was on to San Diego that Monday.

Those were awesome years and we had a lot of fun.

 

[caligula]

The official club cake.

How often do I post this? Birthdays, anniversaries, and so on. The origin was the first meeting in May of 85, and it's my mom's fingers on the box.

Alex Taber.

 

[gottahaveahoove]

wow, Alex. Thanks, so much for clearing all of that up.

I was only in my early 20s when it all began. I had no idea that our club existed until Mike Pletcher (who lives only about an hour from me) told me about it. I 'lurked' for about a year, (I heard a lot happened at that time). I officially joined just before the convention in Ohio, celebrating Hoover's 100th birthday. It was there that I met Rick Benedict, the great Terry Lattz, and so many others. Of course, that weekend began a lifelong friendship with Tom Anderson, his family, and so many others whom I now call my friends. I return to N. Canton quite often, and have been welcomed in every building associated w/ The Hoover Co.even the buildings which have closed.

Everyday, I learn something new.
So, thanks, Alex, for being one of the "pioneers" in this .

 

[texaskirbyguy]

So back to the GE motor mystery...

In digging through old posts here I gave the pages of a service manual in this thread a good look.
http://www.vacuumland.org/cgi-bin/TD/TD-VIEWTHREAD.cgi?27036_3

I did see some part numbers that looked very similar to the one I have in question, so it looks like GE was one of their motor parts suppliers.
Not sure how old this motor is, but the comm bars have some wear and an older open bearing is on the end. So probably pretty old.
Although the current is higher than rated, it runs super strong and does not spark, so I may just run it and see what happens. I did not pay much for it so no gamble, really.
Thanks to all for the leads!

 

[caligula]

Rest assured there is no "OLD" VCCC! unless you consider being age 34 old.

The history is that I went to the Hoover Historical Center in August, 1980, was treated as a V.I.P. by Stack Krammes and Skip Marquat, (head of engineering) and left with tons of paperwork, pictures and so on. A year later Stacy forwarded a letter from John Lucia to me asking about Hoover models 150, and 700. I called him immediately. As far as we knew we were the only 'collectors' on the planet. A friendship was born with that phone call.

Cut to August 82, John told me he was doing a cross country trip and wanted to meet me, a trip to Hoover was also on the agenda. The second week of September John came to Chesterton, Indiana, stayed with my mom and me, and we went on to Hoover together.

That was a breakthrough weekend. Factory tour and both of us full V.I.P. all the way! As we were leaving the Historical Center Stacy gave me a list of people who had seen the center and might be collectors. I looked at this list and asked John "think we should form a club?" his exact words were "I doubt anybody would be interested, but write these people and see."

A week later I drafted a form letter and sent it out to the names on the list. All but one wrote back "yes, form the club." The one who didn't write was Craig Long, he jumped the gun, called me the minute he got the letter. 5 hour conversation from Buffalo, New York.

It took months to draft a newsletter but they went out before Christmas 82, and January 2, 83 became the official date of the clubs creation.

The first newsletter was a test but one that worked. The Vacuum Cleaner Collector's Club was a temporary name, but the members liked it. Still we needed letterhead, and a logo. Again I turned to Hoover. Stacy Krammes's daughter Liz was studying graphic art and I turned to her to create our logo. An abstract of The Baby Daisy, a non electric at the center. By March we had our logo, and were up and running.

We were a teaching club, a resource center and a place where people who had heard 'you collect what?' all their lives could go and get answers.

The club limped along till November of 84 and I lived in Lombard, Illinois. A member came to see me and asked if we could have a meeting. My response was "nobody's going to travel across the country to see some old vacuum cleaners" his response was "put the question in the newsletter" I did, in the Christmas issue, and the response was "when can we get together?" I set the first weekend of May and the place was my mom's family room.

That meeting was awesome, we created all the things that are still in place. We established the rules, set a cut off year on machines, and put numerous other things in place. But the best was yet to come, in August I bought a house in Naperville, Illinois. The address was 5 south 437 Sherman Avenue. It was a block south of Ogden Ave. where there was The Stardust motel, a Dunkin Donuts on my corner, a rental store a block away for folding chairs a coffee urn and so on. There were also restaurants galore including Rascal's which would host our banquets from 86 to 93.

I turned one room into the vacuum room, made my personal collection the official club collection and made my cat Caligula club mascot.

That in a nutshell is the history of how John Lucia and I formed the club. Who knew that the trip to Hoover in 1980 was going to lead to a major club. And it still boggles my mind.